Project Management (Draw some lines)

[z1ggy]

My wife does project implementation. Basically she works with the client to set expectations, schedule meetings, collect requirements, creates the deadlines and keeps everyone on tasks, removes impediments to the project, buffers for the engineers, do data restructuring for import into our systems, etc.

It's a little bit customer service, a little bit scripting/IT work, a little bit leading the meetings, a little bit manager.

Interesting, thanks.

I doubt very seriously that they are going to reject you unless you really phone it in on the application. My advice would be to do what I mentioned in my previous post -- fill out the application and then meet with each of the people you list as project sponsors/contacts and have them read your description and agree to it. That's important because if you're audited, PMI contacts the people on your form and asks them questions so I think it makes sense to talk to your former sponsors to ensure your memories are accurate.

Read PMBOK if you want to see what the test covers. I'll be honest with you -- when you're not dozing off, you'll laugh at what's in the book. Seriously -- some of it is such common sense while other stuff is such contrived and useless BS, you'll roll your eyes.

And like most things in life, just because you have the cert means little. The PM on my largest project right now is exceptionally incompetent and we have to basically tell him how to do his job. Yes, he has a PMP AND an MBA but I'd wager he doesn't know either well.

Is the book actually called PMBOK or is that short of project management book of K...ketchup? Not many words start with K in English haha.

Yeah the guy who I'd call "head" PM for my project is a total fucktard. He has me do a lot of his work and then just corrects me after the fact, or asks me questions, tells me I'm wrong, so then I have to go fact check and come back to tell him that I was actually right.

IYO, how likely WITHOUT a PMP would it be for me to even be considered for a PM job by a company?

 

[SunnyD]

Hate to break it to you step, but this be a repost.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Interesting, thanks.


Is the book actually called PMBOK or is that short of project management book of K...ketchup? Not many words start with K in English haha.

Close - Project Management Book of Knowledge. I think it is version 5 now; I have version 4.

Yeah the guy who I'd call "head" PM for my project is a total fucktard. He has me do a lot of his work and then just corrects me after the fact, or asks me questions, tells me I'm wrong, so then I have to go fact check and come back to tell him that I was actually right.

IYO, how likely WITHOUT a PMP would it be for me to even be considered for a PM job by a company?

I think transferring within your own company to a PM position without a PMP is doable if you have a company that wants to really grant their employees the ability to grow, advance, and move about internally.

I think jumping to another company as a PM without a PMP is harder -- yeah, it is definitely possible and in fact, some smaller companies may not want to pay the PMP markup; however, remember, the PMP is pretty common so you would likely be going up against a lot of guys with PMP certifications. The sad thing is that the moron PM that I spoke of earlier (the guy with a PM and MBA) would probably get a PM job over me if we both applied, but he is nowhere in my league.

Also, one other thing -- you have to keep your PMP current. I'm too lazy to look it up now, but IIRC, you have to have 60 units of contuining education every 3 years or else, you'll lose the certification and have to recertify. You can find a lot of free stuff that qualifies for it from your local PMI group, however.

 

[RichUK]

I think it's also worth noting that ‘project manager’ is a broad job title attached to anything loosely associated with project management.

I’m a Senior Project Manager for a leading financial organisation delivering multi £million / multi-year strategic business change with a team of up to 100 resources. I’ve got a friend whose job title is ‘project manager’ delivering small scale technical change in the region of £40k a project with a team of up to 10 resources – he earns a quarter of what I do and has less than 20% of the responsibility I have.

What makes a great project manager is someone who has honed the art of project management i.e. key behaviours / disciplines. Being fluent in productivity tools such as MS project, having an appreciation for established project frameworks and following predefined processes is simple.

 

[Anubis]

Can anybody who has experience in PM actually describe what they do? I'm considering applying to some jobs for PM positions, but I wouldn't actually say that's what I do now.

think of them like the Forman on a job, or the main contractor who tells the subcontractors what they need to be doing

 

[z1ggy]

Close - Project Management Book of Knowledge. I think it is version 5 now; I have version 4.

I think transferring within your own company to a PM position without a PMP is doable if you have a company that wants to really grant their employees the ability to grow, advance, and move about internally.

I think jumping to another company as a PM without a PMP is harder -- yeah, it is definitely possible and in fact, some smaller companies may not want to pay the PMP markup; however, remember, the PMP is pretty common so you would likely be going up against a lot of guys with PMP certifications. The sad thing is that the moron PM that I spoke of earlier (the guy with a PM and MBA) would probably get a PM job over me if we both applied, but he is nowhere in my league.

Also, one other thing -- you have to keep your PMP current. I'm too lazy to look it up now, but IIRC, you have to have 60 units of contuining education every 3 years or else, you'll lose the certification and have to recertify. You can find a lot of free stuff that qualifies for it from your local PMI group, however.

Okay, I can look into that book more. I think first thing is just looking at PM reqs. out there for the larger companies, to see what they want. I could def switch to pure PM here. We have a whole department called "Program Office", which basically just deals with manning, budget stuff, large scopes of work, etc. There is almost no technical aspects to it whatsoever. They also make shit tons of money for whatever reason.

Define "units" w.r.t the 60 hours of continuing ed? That's not terrible I suppose if its over 3 yrs.

 

[RichUK]

Okay, I can look into that book more. I think first thing is just looking at PM reqs. out there for the larger companies, to see what they want. I could def switch to pure PM here. We have a whole department called "Program Office", which basically just deals with manning, budget stuff, large scopes of work, etc. There is almost no technical aspects to it whatsoever. They also make shit tons of money for whatever reason.

Define "units" w.r.t the 60 hours of continuing ed? That's not terrible I suppose if its over 3 yrs.

Do you have any experience leading teams or managing stakeholders?

Are you clear on the responsibilities / expectations of a project manager in your organisation?

 

[Anubis]

im pretty sure where I work there isn't a single PM who has a PMP. basically most of the PMs are engineers who have been around long enough and are now PMs

this however is not IT

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What makes a great project manager is someone who has honed the art of project management i.e. key behaviours / disciplines. Being fluent in productivity tools such as MS project, having an appreciation for established project frameworks and following predefined processes is simple.

I think this is great advice and very accurate.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Okay, I can look into that book more. I think first thing is just looking at PM reqs. out there for the larger companies, to see what they want. I could def switch to pure PM here. We have a whole department called "Program Office", which basically just deals with manning, budget stuff, large scopes of work, etc. There is almost no technical aspects to it whatsoever. They also make shit tons of money for whatever reason.

Define "units" w.r.t the 60 hours of continuing ed? That's not terrible I suppose if its over 3 yrs.

Each seminar/webinar/course is assigned "hours" of continuing education credit. In order to qualify for the PMP, you also have to have (IIRC, someone can correct me if I am off) 30 hours of an approved PM education course, which is basically a week-long course. I know Cornelius Fitchner has a series of PMP videos that qualify and are (were?) dirt cheap -- I had a PMP course a few years ago but went ahead and bought his video series for like $100 to help review the material. It was called the "Project Management podcast."

 

[z1ggy]

Do you have any experience leading teams or managing stakeholders?

Are you clear on the responsibilities / expectations of a project manager in your organisation?

Yes. I can PM you and give you exactly what I do. I work contract work for the US Military, so I'm not detailing exact things here.

 

[z1ggy]

Each seminar/webinar/course is assigned "hours" of continuing education credit. In order to qualify for the PMP, you also have to have (IIRC, someone can correct me if I am off) 30 hours of an approved PM education course, which is basically a week-long course. I know Cornelius Fitchner has a series of PMP videos that qualify and are (were?) dirt cheap -- I had a PMP course a few years ago but went ahead and bought his video series for like $100 to help review the material. It was called the "Project Management podcast."

Okay. I'll research PMP requirements tonight.

Look for a PM from me, it's easier than doing it via an ATOT thread that will get lost in the useless trollings that flood the forum.

 

[RichUK]

Yes. I can PM you and give you exactly what I do. I work contract work for the US Military, so I'm not detailing exact things here.

Where I was going with this is, you need to align your situational experience with the competencies expected from the role. Having background in a certain industry is just value add, and can often be preferable i.e. you wouldn't manage software dev projects in the same way you would construction projects, yet the guiding principles / framework employed should be broadly similar.

 

[glenn1]

Can anybody who has experience in PM actually describe what they do? I'm considering applying to some jobs for PM positions, but I wouldn't actually say that's what I do now.

They make pretty Gantt Charts. Hold lots of meetings where 95% of the participants aren't even listening and use the time to do other work. Clutter up inboxes by sending lots of emails with words "Status Check" in them that people don't respond to. And pick some supposedly non-random dates on the calendar as "deadlines" that the people doing the real work cheerfully ignore and blow through without a second thought.

 

[steppinthrax]

Okay. I'll research PMP requirements tonight.

Look for a PM from me, it's easier than doing it via an ATOT thread that will get lost in the useless trollings that flood the forum.

Are you serious?

I started this forum. You're getting this information from IndyColts fan due to my forum

LOL

 

[z1ggy]

Are you serious?

I started this forum. You're getting this information from IndyColts fan due to my forum

LOL

Perhaps you lack the understanding between the words 'thread' and 'forum'.

This is a reply, in a thread, started by you.

This thread is one thread among many threads, all which reside in a forum, which is called anandtech. The sub-forum is called off topic. Many threads get buried here in this sub forum (called off topic) because of useless troll threads that get created.

I'd rather PM about personal info that I actually find very relevant to my life, rather than let it get lost in the ATOT jungle.

I did not imply or say this thread is useless.

 

[steppinthrax]

Perhaps you lack the understanding between the words 'thread' and 'forum'.

This is a reply, in a thread, started by you.

This thread is one thread among many threads, all which reside in a forum, which is called anandtech. The sub-forum is called off topic. Many threads get buried here in this sub forum (called off topic) because of useless troll threads that get created.

I'd rather PM about personal info that I actually find very relevant to my life, rather than let it get lost in the ATOT jungle.

I did not imply or say this thread is useless.

LOL

OK Dude, THREAD, now are you happy.

For the record your questions were pretty basic for someone who's a Engineer.

You were honestly asking what a PM was and didn't know about the PMP or anything in that regards.

All of which is information that is pretty "common knowledge" on the internet.

 

[brianmanahan]

paging dr. zeze

 

[kranky]

Each seminar/webinar/course is assigned "hours" of continuing education credit. In order to qualify for the PMP, you also have to have (IIRC, someone can correct me if I am off) 30 hours of an approved PM education course, which is basically a week-long course. I know Cornelius Fitchner has a series of PMP videos that qualify and are (were?) dirt cheap -- I had a PMP course a few years ago but went ahead and bought his video series for like $100 to help review the material. It was called the "Project Management podcast."

The requirement is 35 hours of PM education. Agree with your earlier comment that the PMP application is a PITA but I don't think it needs to be 120 pages. Mine was about 10 or so.

 

[z1ggy]

The requirement is 35 hours of PM education. Agree with your earlier comment that the PMP application is a PITA but I don't think it needs to be 120 pages. Mine was about 10 or so.

Can you please detail what sources you used for the 35 hours of PM related course work? I downloaded the PMI handbook for the PMP exam, but I wasn't sure if that info would be in there. Figure it would be but I could get a head start if I found out sooner.

Still have to look up some positions available online for PM's to see if I'd even qualify.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The requirement is 35 hours of PM education. Agree with your earlier comment that the PMP application is a PITA but I don't think it needs to be 120 pages. Mine was about 10 or so.

When did you apply? When I applied, it was several pages per project and I was going to submit 20+ projects because I read to submit as many as you can. Maybe I was being TOO thorough though and can cut it way back. That certainly encourages me and I'll have to revisit soon.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Can you please detail what sources you used for the 35 hours of PM related course work? I downloaded the PMI handbook for the PMP exam, but I wasn't sure if that info would be in there. Figure it would be but I could get a head start if I found out sooner.

Still have to look up some positions available online for PM's to see if I'd even qualify.

https://www.project-management-prepcast.com/

The PM prepcast gives you the 35 hours of PM education (called "contact hours") you need in order to sit for the exam. Basically, you complete the course and have to take a test afterwards, at which time you receive a certificate which can be submitted with your application as proof that you've met that requirement. Also I think that site has details on 30 free PDUs, which is half the continuing education requirements you need to maintain the certificate over the course of 3 years.

kranky's post gives me some more encouragement and maybe I'll revisit the PMP this year.

 

[z1ggy]

https://www.project-management-prepcast.com/

The PM prepcast gives you the 35 hours of PM education (called "contact hours") you need in order to sit for the exam. Basically, you complete the course and have to take a test afterwards, at which time you receive a certificate which can be submitted with your application as proof that you've met that requirement. Also I think that site has details on 30 free PDUs, which is half the continuing education requirements you need to maintain the certificate over the course of 3 years.

kranky's post gives me some more encouragement and maybe I'll revisit the PMP this year.

Sweeet, thanks. I'll be reading the handbook today, too (nothing going on here at my current job.. sigh).

Yeah, I don't know your exact age but I've always used you're in your 30s or 40s. For me, I am only 5 years into my career, so at most, I have only 10,000 hours of PM experience. Of course, I really only feel like about 4500-5000 hours of that would qualify for PM for the application. Depending on how in detail I need to get... I don't anticipate needing more than 10 pages or so.. Especially when a lot of what I do is completely the same.

PS, I didn't see it on the main PMI page, but.. How much does getting the PMP cost overall? For example, the FE exam for engineers cost $150 to take (I think.. Don't remember).

Edit: I see the PM Prepcast costs $180. So $180 plus however much the fee is to take the exam.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Sweeet, thanks. I'll be reading the handbook today, too (nothing going on here at my current job.. sigh).

Yeah, I don't know your exact age but I've always used you're in your 30s or 40s. For me, I am only 5 years into my career, so at most, I have only 10,000 hours of PM experience. Of course, I really only feel like about 4500-5000 hours of that would qualify for PM for the application. Depending on how in detail I need to get... I don't anticipate needing more than 10 pages or so.. Especially when a lot of what I do is completely the same.

PS, I didn't see it on the main PMI page, but.. How much does getting the PMP cost overall? For example, the FE exam for engineers cost $150 to take (I think.. Don't remember).

The application has more information on costs:

http://www.pmi.org/Certification/~/media/PDF/Certifications/PMP Application Form.ashx

Basically, if you join PMI (the membership is around $140), it more than pays for itself via the discount you get on the test. According to the link above, the computer-based test is $405 for a member or $555 for a non-member. The paper test is significantly cheaper -- $250 for members and $400 for non-members.

 

[kranky]

When did you apply? When I applied, it was several pages per project and I was going to submit 20+ projects because I read to submit as many as you can. Maybe I was being TOO thorough though and can cut it way back. That certainly encourages me and I'll have to revisit soon.

I applied in 2011. I think I listed 6-7 projects on my app with the hours to back it up. I have a spreadsheet that someone built that helps you assign hours to the types of PM actions you may have performed and calculates your total hours and "unique months" of experience. If you want it, PM me an email address. I made sure I was well over the number of hours and unique months required, but certainly did not list everything that could have qualified.

I downloaded the application form and filled it out offline before going back to PMI and typing the info into their online form.

My understanding is that applications are randomly selected for audit. If audited, you have to document everything. If you said Bob Smith was your manager in 2012 for Project X, you'll have to find Bob Smith and have him sign a letter that supports your claims for Project X. If you said you have a degree, you have to prove it. I have never heard that audits are anything but random. I wouldn't want to submit a 120-page app and find out I got randomly selected for audit and have to document everything I said on the app.

I work with a couple people who have PMPs and they barely have enough time out of school to have gotten the required hours of experience, so I know their apps could not have been that beefy.