Projection Tvs vs Plasma Tvs.

[Apex]

LCOS is going to be hot if they can get the yields up. I absolutely love my LCOS projector (actually, D-ILA). The colors are amazing, as is the pixel fill ratio. You just can't get that kind of smooth picture from any other digital display.

HT consulting is a hot business. I wonder how much the commission is on some of those higher end products.

Ahem... dvd player.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Apex
LCOS is going to be hot if they can get the yields up. I absolutely love my LCOS projector (actually, D-ILA). The colors are amazing, as is the pixel fill ratio. You just can't get that kind of smooth picture from any other digital display.

HT consulting is a hot business. I wonder how much the commission is on some of those higher end products.

Ahem... dvd player.

heh, saw that one. I was thinking more along the lines of hooking up with a few contractors of 400K+ houses and working with the home owner on building the theater...acoustics, room size, lighting, equipment, etc. I figure for a 30K theater 10K of consulting costs would be ok.

 

[Kremlar]

I've been doing more A/V work along with my IT work. While it's enjoyable, it's very low quantity for me right now.

 

[EvilYoda]

Spidey07...if you're in a highly-populated area, I imagine that it'll get harder and harder to break into the business, although it sounds like you have a lot of connections, so maybe not. A lot of former high-end retailers are becoming devoted to HT-installation, working with contractors and builders (working in-house, essentially).

And then you'll have your traditional A/V shops, like us, who do all that consulting for free, working just for the commission. The business is tough, but fun, and still full of opportunities.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: wyvrn
Samsung DLP is one of the sharpest screens I have seen. You can get a 42" for around $3100 now.

We got the 56" Samsung DLP instead of a plasma. Like you said, the DLP is super sharp and looks better IMHO than plasma.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: wyvrn
LCD in comparison aren't as nice, and Plasmas have that limited life problem, plus being overpriced relative to other flat panel technologies. These are my un-expert opinions.

I have to disagree with the LCD comment. Initially, I thought the same but I was at the Sony store the other day in Manhattan where the have LCD Projection TVs, Plasma TV's and a 42" LCD Panel TV all displaying HD Net right next to each other. No DLP unfortunately. The Plasma and Projection LCD have almost identical image quality although the Plasma has a much better maximum viewing angle. The Plasma is not worth the premium IMO unless you can't afford the 15" or so depth of the LCD Projection TV. However, the 42" LCD TV was the most beautiful picture I have ever seen and easily outclassed the Plasma and LCD Projection TV. The image was crisp and clear and generally did not have the somewhat soft picture the other technologies displayed. That is not to say the other TVs were not great but just not as good as the LCD TV. The picture does come at a cost, the cost being 13k for a 42" LCD TV, which was roughly double the price of a 42" Plasma, which was roughly double the price of a 50" LCD Projection TV.

 

[Kremlar]

I have to disagree with the LCD comment.

LCDs look great with bright, colorful scenes - like they typically show on HDNet.

Pop in a movie with any dark/murky scenes, maybe Master & Commander, or some of the LOTR battle scenes. That's LCD's problem.

 

[KBeee]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: wyvrn
LCD in comparison aren't as nice, and Plasmas have that limited life problem, plus being overpriced relative to other flat panel technologies. These are my un-expert opinions.

I have to disagree with the LCD comment. Initially, I thought the same but I was at the Sony store the other day in Manhattan where the have LCD Projection TVs, Plasma TV's and a 42" LCD Panel TV all displaying HD Net right next to each other. No DLP unfortunately. The Plasma and Projection LCD have almost identical image quality although the Plasma has a much better maximum viewing angle. The Plasma is not worth the premium IMO unless you can't afford the 15" or so depth of the LCD Projection TV. However, the 42" LCD TV was the most beautiful picture I have ever seen and easily outclassed the Plasma and LCD Projection TV. The image was crisp and clear and generally did not have the somewhat soft picture the other technologies displayed. That is not to say the other TVs were not great but just not as good as the LCD TV. The picture does come at a cost, the cost being 13k for a 42" LCD TV, which was roughly double the price of a 42" Plasma, which was roughly double the price of a 50" LCD Projection TV.

Calibrate each to your own preference before being "shown" that the most expensive is the "best"
You think Sony would allow a cheaper model to look better?

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Kremlar

I have to disagree with the LCD comment.

LCDs look great with bright, colorful scenes - like they typically show on HDNet.

Pop in a movie with any dark/murky scenes, maybe Master & Commander, or some of the LOTR battle scenes. That's LCD's problem.

Possible but it was more than just colorful scenes. There were small details displayed on the LCD, which were lost on the other TV's (facial wrinkles, textures, etc.). What I'm talking about was slight but apparent if you knew what to look for.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: KBeee


Calibrate each to your own preference before being "shown" that the most expensive is the "best"
You think Sony would allow a cheaper model to look better?

Considering that the much cheaper LCD Projection TV's looked as good as the pricier Plasma TV's, I?d say your theory doesn't hold up. Besides, according to the Sales Persons (Take it for what you will), Sony doesn't do any post calibration to the TV's.

 

[Kremlar]

Possible but it was more than just colorful scenes. There were small details displayed on the LCD, which were lost on the other TV's (facial wrinkles, textures, etc.). What I'm talking about was slight but apparent if you knew what to look for.

LCDs do run at a higher resolution than plasmas, that's one of their advantages. However, their contrast ratios are just horrible - thus the poor black levels and shadow detail. From normal viewing distances, the extra resolution is usually not seen, but you sure can still see that poor contrast ratio.

Considering that the much cheaper LCD Projection TV's looked as good as the pricier Plasma TV's, I?d say your theory doesn't hold up. Besides, according to the Sales Persons (Take it for what you will), Sony doesn't do any post calibration to the TV's.

What do you mean by 'post calibration'?

Sony also is not known for making great plasmas. Check out Panasonic or Pioneer plasmas for comparison. The Sony store in my area also does not set these up very well at all - every TV needs to be calibrated to your preference before you can judge it.

 

[spidey07]

OMG!

Yep, I'm permantently staying out of any display or TV threads from now on. The complete and total misinformation in this one alone makes my stomach crawl.

This is why I should go into HT consulting...the sheer and complete ignorance that is being spoon fed to the public....and I for one am sure I can make tons of money off of that ignorance.

:disgust:

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: spidey07
OMG!

Yep, I'm permantently staying out of any display or TV threads from now on. The complete and total misinformation in this one alone makes my stomach crawl.

This is why I should go into HT consulting...the sheer and complete ignorance that is being spoon fed to the public....and I for one am sure I can make tons of money off of that ignorance.

:disgust:

hehehe.

 

[Kremlar]

OMG!

I certainly hope you're not referring to my comments, otherwise I'd love to hear yours.

 

[spidey07]

yep, i was.

 

[Kremlar]

It's pretty easy to hang out in a thread and complain about all the misinformation, yet not actually give any opinions of your own. Good job.

I've been around in the A/V field for quite a while, and stand by what I said. Granted, like anything else, my comments are slanted with opinion, but saying that anything I said was 'misinformation' - I just don't see it.

What exactly did you feel was misleading?

 

[Kremlar]

That's what I thought...

 

[Apex]

As far as LCD has to go to match plasmas for video use, I think they've come a long way. The latest G series Sharp 37" is really amazing compared with older LCD's. I think it's a move in the right direction.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: Apex
As far as LCD has to go to match plasmas for video use, I think they've come a long way. The latest G series Sharp 37" is really amazing compared with older LCD's. I think it's a move in the right direction.

I think that may be exactly the issue here. Technologies such as Plasma and LCD are well into their 2nd or 3rd generation. You could look at Sony's newest Vega Plasmas and immediately see a difference compared to last year?s models, especially in areas of contrast and saturation. In the same respect, the 42" LCD they were displaying is a brand new model and clearly was better than anything at the store. I know there are other companies but I have seen my fair share of Plasma, DLP and projection TV's and the 42" Sony LCD is better than all of them at the current moment. I encourage you to take a look. Too bad it's 13k at the moment.

 

[Apex]

Originally posted by: DBL

Originally posted by: Apex
As far as LCD has to go to match plasmas for video use, I think they've come a long way. The latest G series Sharp 37" is really amazing compared with older LCD's. I think it's a move in the right direction.

I think that may be exactly the issue here. Technologies such as Plasma and LCD are well into their 2nd or 3rd generation. You could look at Sony's newest Vega Plasmas and immediately see a difference compared to last year?s models, especially in areas of contrast and saturation. In the same respect, the 42" LCD they were displaying is a brand new model and clearly was better than anything at the store. I know there are other companies but I have seen my fair share of Plasma, DLP and projection TV's and the 42" Sony LCD is better than all of them at the current moment. I encourage you to take a look. Too bad it's 13k at the moment.

The KDL-42XBR950? I've seen it. It's actually not as good as the Sharp, especially in terms of motion artifacts. It's a big step better than their older panels though.

All in all, I have yet to see an LCD match a Plasma for video. The black levels, contrast, and shadow detail are still, unfortunately, nowhere close. The color gamut is still very far behind (plasmas have upwards of 2048 grayscale, 1.07 billion colors, for very very smooth gradients). Ghosting is catching up with the newest 12ms Sharp panels, but still lags.

The only 6 areas , I personally see, where LCD's beat plasmas (when we're talking about leading models for both) are:

1. Full screen brightness (while plasmas can get brighter than LCD's in a smaller window or section of screen, LCD's can do full screens brighter). This is more beneficial to data & computer use than video though. This is also beneficial when comparing side by side in very poor, high ambient light conditions.
2. Energy usage
3. Burn in resistance
4. Weight (small difference, when comparing same size)
5. Durability (for shipping)
6. Retail consumer electronics shop salespeople's perceptions (ie. Best Buy salespeople)

 

[Kremlar]

As far as LCD has to go to match plasmas for video use, I think they've come a long way. The latest G series Sharp 37" is really amazing compared with older LCD's. I think it's a move in the right direction.

I agree that LCDs are improving, no doubt. Plasmas are improving as well however, though I'd say not as fast. But, I still evaluate models as they are today - why would I buy a LCD because the technology is improving? I want what looks best to me today.

Maybe it's because I come from a CRT front projector world, but contrast and shadow detail mean a lot to me. Nothing frustrates me more that washing a washed out dark scene. Even my DLP front projector disappoints me sometimes, nevermind an LCD. Even the new Sharp LCDs have, I believe, only a 800:1 contrast ratio. Great for a LCD, but not close to a good plasma or DLP.

I have seen my fair share of Plasma, DLP and projection TV's and the 42" Sony LCD is better than all of them at the current moment. I encourage you to take a look. Too bad it's 13k at the moment.

Personally, I don't agree. The Sony does look nice, but in that price range I'd prefer a high-end Fujitsu plasma.

The only 6 areas , I personally see, where LCD's beat plasmas (when we're talking about leading models for both) are:

I agree with these, and would also add resolution per screen size. With LCDs, it seems common to see smaller sized screens with higher resolutions than a same size plasma. Has some benefits close up, though I feel they diminish at normal viewing distance.

 

[Apex]

I agree that LCDs are improving, no doubt. Plasmas are improving as well however, though I'd say not as fast. But, I still evaluate models as they are today - why would I buy a LCD because the technology is improving? I want what looks best to me today.

Maybe it's because I come from a CRT front projector world, but contrast and shadow detail mean a lot to me. Nothing frustrates me more that washing a washed out dark scene. Even my DLP front projector disappoints me sometimes, nevermind an LCD. Even the new Sharp LCDs have, I believe, only a 800:1 contrast ratio. Great for a LCD, but not close to a good plasma or DLP.

I absolutely agree that at the current stage of development, LCD's still have not caught up to plasmas. I wouldn't buy one either, at least not for my usage.

I agree with these, and would also add resolution per screen size. With LCDs, it seems common to see smaller sized screens with higher resolutions than a same size plasma. Has some benefits close up, though I feel they diminish at normal viewing distance.

Oh yeah, forgot that one.

 

[mattg1981]

I LOVE my projection tv ... not too big, Sony 51". I've had it about a year now. No complaints at all