Propaganda for the Masses

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
[ Absurd straw man omitted ]

Now that you have that out of your system, would you care to offer an intelligent, informed refutation of the OP and subsequent points raised, or will you continue to try to divert the thread?

Edit: typo

Nope. Don't feel the need to. alchemize gave an appropriate link to this whole matter, and the rest is just silly posting. Thanks for joining in!



Edit: Oops, alchemize gave that link, not CAD. My bad.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
[ Absurd straw man omitted ]

Now that you have that out of your system, would you care to offer an intelligent, informed refutation of the OP and subsequent points raised, or will you continue to try to divert the thread?

Edit: typo

Nope. Don't feel the need to. CAD gave an appropriate link to this whole matter, and the rest is just silly posting. Thanks for joining in!

It wasn't even cad who posted that link... If it wasn't worth arguing about why did he try in the first place?

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
[ Absurd straw man omitted ]

Now that you have that out of your system, would you care to offer an intelligent, informed refutation of the OP and subsequent points raised, or will you continue to try to divert the thread?

Nope. Don't feel the need to. alchemize gave an appropriate link to this whole matter, and the rest is just silly posting. Thanks for joining in! ...

That's cool, I understand. Offering intelligent, informed comments is hard work. It's hard work. It's so much easier to drop a load of crap and scurry away. Hard work.

 

[marcello]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: marcello

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
The biggest mistake most of you guys are making is that you are assuming that American facism will represent German facism verbatim.

An American facist would do well to take America over in an American way rather than a prussian way.

Actually, my assumption of American fascism leans more towards the Mussolini brand of the same. Though, I may be a bit biased since I'm part Italian.

Then again, Bush's admin is actually nowhere near fascist. Being able to ascribe certain qualities to a thing does not make it that thing. I could provide numerous examples of that statement, if absolutely necessary, but hopefully you already understand what I mean.

No, I understand completely what you're saying, but I still think there is a lot of similarity between our current administration and fascism. If it looks, talks, and acts like a fascist, it just might be one.

We had a fairly reasonable discussion about this months ago. IIRC, burnedout did much excellent research to analyze the ways in which the Bush administration did and did NOT parallel Hitler's rise to power. There are, in fact, far too many disturbing parallels; we've only scratched the surface in this thread. Nonetheless, I think there was some consensus that Bush is nowhere near being another Hitler, but, by intention or coincidence, his administration is proceeding along a path dangerously similar to Hitler's.

The conclusion is that Americans should be vigilant to ensure we are not pulled into fascism the way Germans were 70 years ago. In short, we must remember history so we do not repeat it.

Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to say Bush was another Hitler, I was only trying to say what you did, that they are scarily similar.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Now that you have that out of your system, would you care to offer an intelligent, informed refutation of the OP and subsequent points raised, or will you continue to try to divert the thread?

Nope. Don't feel the need to.

That's cool, I understand. Offering intelligent, informed comments is hard work. It's hard work. It's so much easier to drop a load of crap and scurry away. Hard work.

Talk about not staying the course... LOL.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger


The conclusion is that Americans should be vigilant to ensure we are not pulled into fascism the way Germans were 70 years ago. In short, we must remember history so we do not repeat it.

Hi Bowfinger,

You've hit on the key here IMO. The point isn't that Bush is like Hitler. The point IMO is that we're headed down the road to fascism.

Read this link and tell me that these 14 points don't apply to the Bush administration's tactics and outlook.

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

 

[Vadatajs]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Bush and Hitler have similarities:
-both are fanatics
-both are obsessed with Poland
-both hate France
-both are secretive
-both will do anything to destroy their enemies
-both start wars with others in the name of their country
-both are authoritarians
-both are fascists
-both have carefully orchestrated political gatherings
-both don't care about civil liberties

Of course they are different too: Hitler was better with German than Bush is with English. Also Bush doesn't have the mustache. Finally, Hitler as a young man served in his country's armed forces in wartime, Bush didn't.

And Hitler was elected...

 

[fjord]

Originally posted by: crooked22


Reader's digest version:

To whom should propaganda be addressed? To the scientifically trained intelligentsia or to the less educated masses?

It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses.


The whole art consists in doing this so skillfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc.

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to. Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely intellectual level will have to be. But if, as in propaganda for sticking out a war, the aim is to influence a whole people, we must avoid excessive intellectual demands on our public, and too much caution cannot be exerted in this direction.


The art of propaganda lies in understanding the emotional ideas of the great masses and finding, through a psychologically correct form, the way to the attention and thence to the heart of the broad masses. The fact that our bright boys do not understand this merely shows how mentally lazy and conceited they are.
Once we understand how necessary it is for propaganda to be adjusted to the broad mass, the following rule results:

It is a mistake to make propaganda many-sided, like scientific instruction, for instance.

The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous.

In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.

The Point is made--

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
[ Absurd straw man omitted ]

Now that you have that out of your system, would you care to offer an intelligent, informed refutation of the OP and subsequent points raised, or will you continue to try to divert the thread?

Nope. Don't feel the need to. alchemize gave an appropriate link to this whole matter, and the rest is just silly posting. Thanks for joining in! ...

That's cool, I understand. Offering intelligent, informed comments is hard work. It's hard work. It's so much easier to drop a load of crap and scurry away. Hard work.

Are you saying that the linked article is a load of crap? If so, I'd like to discuss it in detail.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Bowfinger


The conclusion is that Americans should be vigilant to ensure we are not pulled into fascism the way Germans were 70 years ago. In short, we must remember history so we do not repeat it.

Hi Bowfinger,

You've hit on the key here IMO. The point isn't that Bush is like Hitler. The point IMO is that we're headed down the road to fascism.

Read this link and tell me that these 14 points don't apply to the Bush administration's tactics and outlook.

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Before you think you are some kind of cute unique thinker, this has been discussed ad naseum. Here.
And here.

And I'll be happy to point out John
Kerry
fascist
examples
for your
review

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Damn, where is that popcorn?

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
[ Absurd straw man omitted ]

Now that you have that out of your system, would you care to offer an intelligent, informed refutation of the OP and subsequent points raised, or will you continue to try to divert the thread?

Nope. Don't feel the need to. alchemize gave an appropriate link to this whole matter, and the rest is just silly posting. Thanks for joining in! ...

That's cool, I understand. Offering intelligent, informed comments is hard work. It's hard work. It's so much easier to drop a load of crap and scurry away. Hard work.

:beer:

 

[BA]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Bowfinger


The conclusion is that Americans should be vigilant to ensure we are not pulled into fascism the way Germans were 70 years ago. In short, we must remember history so we do not repeat it.

Hi Bowfinger,

You've hit on the key here IMO. The point isn't that Bush is like Hitler. The point IMO is that we're headed down the road to fascism.

Read this link and tell me that these 14 points don't apply to the Bush administration's tactics and outlook.

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Before you think you are some kind of cute unique thinker, this has been discussed ad naseum. Here.
And here.

And I'll be happy to point out John
Kerry
fascist
examples
for your
review

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.

However the fact that Bush uses effective techniques of propaganda espoused by Hitler does not equate them. Any comparison is a blatant appeal to emotion.

 

[alchemize]

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.

[/quote]

All propaganda must be popular and its intellectual level must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to

That would be you...

 

[BA]

Ad Hominem!

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Before you think you are some kind of cute unique thinker, this has been discussed ad naseum. Here.
And here.

And I'll be happy to point out John
Kerry
fascist
examples
for your
review

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

More on topic to this thread, here is the thread I mentioned. It has the most thorough examination I've seen of the parallels between Bush and Hitler.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: alchemize
Before you think you are some kind of cute unique thinker, this has been discussed ad naseum. Here.
And here.

And I'll be happy to point out John
Kerry
fascist
examples
for your
review

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

More on topic to this thread, here is the thread I mentioned. It has the most thorough examination I've seen of the parallels between Bush and Hitler.

And an effective debunking by Alchemize

 

[BA]

With more Ad Hominems

You might want to read a book or 2 on WWII first so you don't look like a complete idiot.

So YOU bite me, you pompous hypocritical twit.

And a Straw Man!

You started off well enough, with actual debunking, but afterwards, nothing.


Besides, the simplest way to prove Bush is not Hitler is to listen to him speak.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nobody wants to think that they are evil. You cannot tell a Nazi that he is a Nazi. He will tell you that you are the Nazi. Nazism is fears answer to terrorism, the terrorized response.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Vadatajs

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Bush and Hitler have similarities:
-both are fanatics
-both are obsessed with Poland
-both hate France
-both are secretive
-both will do anything to destroy their enemies
-both start wars with others in the name of their country
-both are authoritarians
-both are fascists
-both have carefully orchestrated political gatherings
-both don't care about civil liberties

Of course they are different too: Hitler was better with German than Bush is with English. Also Bush doesn't have the mustache. Finally, Hitler as a young man served in his country's armed forces in wartime, Bush didn't.

And Hitler was elected...

Mild irony detected.

By all means we must learn from history or be doomed to repeat it. Yet how do we ban elections and not become fascists?

Didn't Hitler breathe? Awww sh1t..........

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: alchemize
Before you think you are some kind of cute unique thinker, this has been discussed ad naseum. Here.
And here.

And I'll be happy to point out John
Kerry
fascist
examples
for your
review

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

More on topic to this thread, here is the thread I mentioned. It has the most thorough examination I've seen of the parallels between Bush and Hitler.

And an effective debunking by Alchemize

I've always wanted to ask someone who compliments themself in public if they actually believe that anyone else buys it. Do you?

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: BA

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: Bowfinger


The conclusion is that Americans should be vigilant to ensure we are not pulled into fascism the way Germans were 70 years ago. In short, we must remember history so we do not repeat it.

Hi Bowfinger,

You've hit on the key here IMO. The point isn't that Bush is like Hitler. The point IMO is that we're headed down the road to fascism.

Read this link and tell me that these 14 points don't apply to the Bush administration's tactics and outlook.

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
4. Supremacy of the Military
5. Rampant Sexism
6. Controlled Mass Media
7. Obsession with National Security
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
9. Corporate Power is Protected
10. Labor Power is Suppressed
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
14. Fraudulent Elections

Before you think you are some kind of cute unique thinker, this has been discussed ad naseum. Here.
And here.

And I'll be happy to point out John
Kerry
fascist
examples
for your
review

Maybe if I'll get bored I can find examples of all 14. Heck, it was easy with Dean, it will even be easier with Flipper.

In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan.

However the fact that Bush uses effective techniques of propaganda espoused by Hitler does not equate them. Any comparison is a blatant appeal to emotion.

"All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
Nazi Reich Marshall hermann Goering,
at the Nuremberg War Trials

As you say, just a blatant appeal to emotion. :laugh:

alchemize

Thanks for thinking I'm cute.

 

[arsbanned]

Given the way the right-wingers are reacting here, I'd say the OP struck a nerve.
The similarities are frightening. Hell, consider the Republican goon squads who intimidated the recount people in Florida in 2000. Tell me that wasn't organized. I hope the Democrats are better prepared this year to defend agsint similar assaults by the Right.

 

[Gravity]

Yaaawn. I thought your aritcle/chapter was a look at both parties. At least that's how I took the advertising/propaganda piece.

Not very thoughtfully done and the theme has been here before.

 

[PatboyX]

the only thing about this quote:
"The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous."
that is no longer true is that the receptivity of the masses is now practically unlimited.