pros and cons of splitting the US into 2 countries?

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
And as in the story, the endless alarmism is what gave the wolf an oppprtunity to strike. Trump is no wolf.

In my opinion he is the most profoundly dangerous individual to hold the presidency in the modern era at least, maybe ever. This isn’t alarmism, he really is using the office of the presidency to personally profit. He really is directing federal law enforcement to prosecute his political enemies. He really is firing public officials for investigating his associates, etc. etc.
 
Reactions: Younigue

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
I'm all for California seccession. All government subsidies would be cut off. That would effect a large percentage of the EBT users / abusers and pretty much kill section 8 housed baby makers. California would soon be in a huge fiscal crisis. Let's try this idea. I like it.

California is a net payer to the federal treasury. They would have more money after seceding, not less.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,852
29,649
146
I'm all for California seccession. All government subsidies would be cut off. That would effect a large percentage of the EBT users / abusers and pretty much kill section 8 housed baby makers. California would soon be in a huge fiscal crisis. Let's try this idea. I like it.

lol that you think this is what is going on, and what would happen. CA has a larger economy than all other red states, combined, and pays into national welfare for GOP redneck states. Good luck losing that sweet, sweet, cheddar.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,645
2,200
126
i see someone else has finally arrived to the same conclusion as me; pro-trumpers and anti-trumpers cannot coexist.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
lol that you think this is what is going on, and what would happen. CA has a larger economy than all other red states, combined, and pays into national welfare for GOP redneck states. Good luck losing that sweet, sweet, cheddar.

This really is an amazing combination of insane/dumb. He’s insane enough to be wishing suffering on a state full of people but too dumb to realize his plan for inflicting suffering would actually make them better off.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,334
1,210
126
In my opinion he is the most profoundly dangerous individual to hold the presidency in the modern era at least, maybe ever. This isn’t alarmism, he really is using the office of the presidency to personally profit. He really is directing federal law enforcement to prosecute his political enemies. He really is firing public officials for investigating his associates, etc. etc.

You make unfounded claims about Trump but we have been shown the evidence of those exact things happening during Obama's time. Corruption, bribery, using government agencies to investigate and attack political opponents and members of the press, and conspiracy with hostile foreign governments.
 
Reactions: IJTSSG

IJTSSG

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2014
1,122
277
136
California's economy is larger than all the red states combined? Really? If you say so.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
You make unfounded claims about Trump but we have been shown the evidence of those exact things happening during Obama's time. Corruption, bribery, using government agencies to investigate and attack political opponents and members of the press, and conspiracy with hostile foreign governments.

No, we haven’t. Obama ran one of the cleanest administrations in US history. Maybe THE cleanest.

You’re in the conservative media bubble so you probably believe what you wrote but it’s all nonsense. You’re being lied to by media who thinks you’re too stupid to know better. Why not try to prove them wrong?
 
Reactions: Younigue

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
27,113
925
126
California leaving will be like the kid that ran off to get married on his allowance, only to find out he needed to move back home, to make ends meet. This concept is frigging ridiculous and it's not going to happen, even though I wish it would. California is a shit hole and San Francisco stinks. For the one of the biggest economies in the country, why does California have so much poverty? I thought all those extra taxes would do something, but there are homeless people everywhere. Some places look worse than a 3rd world country.

Than again, pretty much every decaying city is run by liberals. The liberal concept of governing does not work.
 
Reactions: IJTSSG

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
California leaving will be like the kid that ran off to get married on his allowance, only to find out he needed to move back home, to make ends meet. This concept is frigging ridiculous and it's not going to happen, even though I wish it would. California is a shit hole and San Francisco stinks. For the one of the biggest economies in the country, why does California have so much poverty? I thought all those extra taxes would do something, but there are homeless people everywhere. Some places look worse than a 3rd world country.

Than again, pretty much every decaying city is run by liberals. The liberal concept of governing does not work.

I like how when you are confronted with the fact that California pays out more to the feds than it gets back you don’t change your mind, you just repeat the same false claim but with additional angry ranting and name calling.

Also, if the liberal concept of governing doesn’t work then why do almost all of the most economically successful countries have highly liberal governance models? Even within the US almost all of the most economically successful areas are run by liberals. Maybe instead of ranting about them you could learn something from their success?
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
California is a net payer to the federal treasury. They would have more money after seceding, not less.
Not if they have to start fully funding services currently provided by the federal govt. Defense spending alone would kill that surplus, not to mention having to now protect an eastern and southern border.
 
Reactions: IJTSSG

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
In my opinion he is the most profoundly dangerous individual to hold the presidency in the modern era at least, maybe ever. This isn’t alarmism, he really is using the office of the presidency to personally profit. He really is directing federal law enforcement to prosecute his political enemies. He really is firing public officials for investigating his associates, etc. etc.
Trump is a useful idiot. You should be worried about who is pulling the strings. But apparently it is more important to investigate who he slept with before he became President, and if there is a porn star peepee tape, which narratively detracts from the more significant attack on our sovereignty.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
Not if they have to start fully funding services currently provided by the federal govt. Defense spending alone would kill that surplus, not to mention having to now protect an eastern and southern border.

Current US military expenditures in California are around $50 billion a year and are counted in their net balance of payments to the feds. Simply replacing that spending would put California’s military spending as approximately equal to France and the U.K., some of the highest spending countries in the world. I see no reason to believe replacing these services would introduce new costs above what’s already spent and if California wanted a less interventionist foreign policy they could reduce that cost still further.

California definitely might be worse off outside of the US for a number of reasons, but fiscal reasons aren’t it.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Also, if the liberal concept of governing doesn’t work then why do almost all of the most economically successful countries have highly liberal governance models?
Nearly all of the western democratic socialist nations are in decline both in terms of birth rates and real GDP growth.

Even within the US almost all of the most economically successful areas are run by liberals.
Almost all the areas suffering urban decay are also run by liberals.

The most economically successful areas are a balance of democratic socialism, fiscal conservatism and geographic luck.
 
Reactions: IJTSSG

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
Trump is a useful idiot. You should be worried about who is pulling the strings. But apparently it is more important to investigate who he slept with before he became President, and if there is a porn star peepee tape, which narratively detracts from the more significant attack on our sovereignty.

I don’t care who he slept with before he became president or honestly, who he is sleeping with now. I do care very much about whether he paid to cover it up and the possibility of the pee tape in general though as if they exist that means a hostile foreign power is in a position to blackmail our chief executive, a dire national security threat.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
Nearly all of the western democratic socialist nations are in decline both in terms of birth rates and real GDP growth.

You’re saying liberalism causes lower birth rates? What’s the evidence for this? Also, lower GDP growth is a direct result of a lower birth rate.

The success of democratic socialism can’t be denied.

Almost all the areas suffering urban decay are also run by liberals.

The most economically successful areas are a balance of democratic socialism, fiscal conservatism and geographic luck.

Serious question: what’s your evidence that fiscal conservatism is correlated with economic prosperity? I’m not aware of any.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I don’t care who he slept with before he became president or honestly, who he is sleeping with now. I do care very much about whether he paid to cover it up and the possibility of the pee tape in general though as if they exist that means a hostile foreign power is in a position to blackmail our chief executive, a dire national security threat.
I expect that hostile foreign power has far more leverage than a peepee tape can provide, especially as more info comes to light about the Facebook exploit.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Serious question: what’s your evidence that fiscal conservatism is correlated with economic prosperity? I’m not aware of any.
California and Massachusetts are probably the best evidence, two successful blue states with high tax revenues born of the emergence of the service based economy and run by fiscally conservative governors.

Germany is another success story.

When you take democratic socialism and decouple it from fiscal conservatism, you get Italy, Spain, Greece, etc.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
I expect that hostile foreign power has far more leverage than a peepee tape can provide, especially as more info comes to light about the Facebook exploit.

That’s certainly possible and that would be a problem too. It’s wrong to dismiss the pee tape and the Stormy Daniels business as trivial asides though. They have clear national security implications.

Honestly, this is another reason why Trump is so bad. I suspect he has a long history of either engaging in criminal activity himself or abetting it by others. (Money laundering, basically) He’s exceptionally vulnerable to blackmail.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,981
49,720
136
California and Massachusetts are probably the best evidence, two successful blue states with high tax revenues born of the emergence of the service based economy and run by fiscally conservative governors.

California and Massachusetts have been successful for a very long time. What standard are you using to say they are fiscally conservative?

Germany is another success story.

When you take democratic socialism and decouple it from fiscal conservatism, you get Italy, Spain, Greece, etc.

That is a story about the euro, not fiscal conservatism. I would view Germany as a fiscally conservative country though so that is one example.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,852
29,649
146
You make unfounded claims about Trump but we have been shown the evidence of those exact things happening during Obama's time. Corruption, bribery, using government agencies to investigate and attack political opponents and members of the press, and conspiracy with hostile foreign governments.

no you don't. Not once have you gleaned to offer up this evidence, and I know you won't do it here.
 

TeeJay1952

Golden Member
May 28, 2004
1,540
191
106
There will always be disagreements. Government is about doing the things we agree on. Roads, Education, National Security, Healthcare and so forth should be easy. It isn't till we get into the social stuff (abortion, immigration, ownership and use of public land) that thing may grind to a halt and side on individual rights.
If you don't like sharing you are free to go elsewhere. Philippines allows immigration and N Korea is just like the Hotel California. (You can check out any time you want but can never leave)
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
California leaving will be like the kid that ran off to get married on his allowance, only to find out he needed to move back home, to make ends meet. This concept is frigging ridiculous and it's not going to happen, even though I wish it would. California is a shit hole and San Francisco stinks. For the one of the biggest economies in the country, why does California have so much poverty? I thought all those extra taxes would do something, but there are homeless people everywhere. Some places look worse than a 3rd world country.

Than again, pretty much every decaying city is run by liberals. The liberal concept of governing does not work.

How do you figure california has "so much poverty"? It's not great, but 35th is hardly worst
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate

It's actually the worst of the blue states (except DC I suppose), but that's still better than 15 of the reddest red states. Bottom of the list (of full states+DC)?
DC
Arkansas
Kentucky
Alabama
Louisiana
New Mexico
Mississippi


And the GDP question?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP
Too lazy to do the math, but CA is is 62% larger than the next-largest state, TX. Florida I'd call purple, and next red state is only 24% the GDP of california, and it goes down from there. Maybe not larger than all red states combined, but damn close.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,617
3,472
136
This is totally feasible. Remember the Roman Empire split into Eastern and Western Roman Empire and they had cordial relations.

The western Roman Empire also became far more conservative before it fell. It usually doesn't bode well when something stops trying to grow/evolve.
 
Reactions: Younigue
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |