Proud to be American

[envy me]

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Aegis-PSD.wmv

Here is what American money pays for. Every American can sit back and be proud of what is going on in Iraq. Shooting at innocent civilians.


This is how American's spread democracy. Take note.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: envy me
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Aegis-PSD.wmv

Here is what American money pays for. Every American can sit back and be proud of what is going on in Iraq. Shooting at innocent civilians.

This is how American's spread democracy. Take note.

It's called Republican Imperialism and approved by 52% of this Country.

Where the hell have you've been???

 

[3chordcharlie]

I think this video has been posted before, and even if it's a different one, it belongs in this thread edit which is still showing on the front page.

Also that's a pretty inflammatory title and comment, and I say that as someone who has nothing good to say about the Bush administration or the Iraqi occupation.

 

[Meuge]

I love seeing videos with no context, interpreted by people with an agenda.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

 

[envy me]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

The fact is this: In war, innocent people get hurt. It's called collateral damage. It sucks, yes, but it's a fact of life. For the most part, we DO and HAVE tried to avoid civilians as much as possible. It's precisely BECAUSE of this fact that these SAVAGES choose to hide in and around civilians. Who is it who doesn't give a piss? The INSURGENT SAVAGES. If they gave one BIT of a damn about innocent lives, about the Iraqi people, about ANYTHING at all but their fanatical cause, their devotion to the idea that people should be ruled with an iron fist, they'd put on uniforms and fight on the battlefield like real honest, HONORABLE men.

The bottom line is that the insurgents are SAVAGES. They do not fight with HONOR, they do not care AT ALL about the "Innocent Iraqi civilians". If, in order to defeat these SAVAGES and bring peace and order to Iraq we have to risk some civilian lives, then so be it. It's not the best situation, but you're never going to get the best situation when you're dealing with SAVAGES.

Jason

 

[envy me]

Can you explain to me where in the video do you see any insurgents, or any savages? All I see is people opening fire on cars with automatic weapons. Thats what I see. Who are savages? Isn't torturing people considered savage, cruel, and unusual punishment? And to your point about fighting on the battlefield like honorable men... Theres nothing honorable about invading a country, torturing people (civilians, or insurgents, it doesnt matter), and using prohibitted weapons on those people (the same prohibitted weapons you went there in the first place to find) The people fighting in Iraq have every right to do so, If someone came into my country and started using my neighbours for target practice and torture I would do anything in my power to get rid of them any way that I could. Defending your country and invading another country are 2 different things.

 

[Meuge]

I see the same thing. All I see in the video are people opening fire on cars. I do not know who is in those cars. If I show you the last 10 minutes of any high-body-count action film, and you're unfamiliar with the formula, nothing stops you from thinking that the person who's killing everyone is a madman. It's the context that allows you to make a correct judgement. So unless I have that information I will reserve my opinion.

On the other hand, people who wave this tape around and scream only show their short-sightedness, stupidity, or (in the worst case) a badly masked anti-American agenda.

As for torture, it has always been around... and is not going away anytime soon. Somehow an intelligence agency has to get information from a person who is unwilling to share it. What they do, and how they do it varies, but the principle is the same -> make someone uncomfortable enough to tell you what you need to know. Is it good or ethical - no... but there are times when you can't escape it.

Also, I am sorry, but whoever says that drowning the Koran in the toilet is as bad as cutting someone's fingers off deserved to have both happen to them... just so that they could make up their mind properly.

 

[Skiguy411]

Originally posted by: Meuge
I love seeing videos with no context, interpreted by people with an agenda.

QFT

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

The fact is this: In war, innocent people get hurt. It's called collateral damage. It sucks, yes, but it's a fact of life. For the most part, we DO and HAVE tried to avoid civilians as much as possible. It's precisely BECAUSE of this fact that these SAVAGES choose to hide in and around civilians. Who is it who doesn't give a piss? The INSURGENT SAVAGES. If they gave one BIT of a damn about innocent lives, about the Iraqi people, about ANYTHING at all but their fanatical cause, their devotion to the idea that people should be ruled with an iron fist, they'd put on uniforms and fight on the battlefield like real honest, HONORABLE men.

The bottom line is that the insurgents are SAVAGES. They do not fight with HONOR, they do not care AT ALL about the "Innocent Iraqi civilians". If, in order to defeat these SAVAGES and bring peace and order to Iraq we have to risk some civilian lives, then so be it. It's not the best situation, but you're never going to get the best situation when you're dealing with SAVAGES.

Jason

Savages.... They're a lot smarter than you are. They probably actually KNOW just wtf is going on. The point is, the U.S. shouldn't BE in Iraq in the first place! (where are the WMD again?, if you recall THAT was the justification for attacking Iraq) And here you are gloating about the indiscriminant slaughter of the Iraqi people.
Who are the savages again? :disgust: Just don't whine when another 9/11 happens.

 

[Lemon law]

Excuse me,

This is called standard operating proseidure in war---or aka colaterial damage.

It happens, you can plan for it, but it seems the neocons did not. Their planning never got past flowers and candy.-------maybe they should have thought a little more before they decided to go in.

Before they could deceive the American public thy had to deceive themselves first. And it is not hard to fool them folks. But the real people who are hurt are the innocent civilians of Iraq who now have
a full blown war in their own neighborhoods.

And we are even more foolish than the neocons if we think they blame just their home grown insurgents and should therefore love us.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Excuse me,

This is called standard operating proseidure in war---or aka colaterial damage.

It happens, you can plan for it, but it seems the neocons did not. Their planning never got past flowers and candy.-------maybe they should have thought a little more before they decided to go in.

I'd love to disagree, but I think you might be right.

 

[skygod99]

Originally posted by: envy me

Can you explain to me where in the video do you see any insurgents, or any savages? All I see is people opening fire on cars with automatic weapons. Thats what I see. Who are savages? Isn't torturing people considered savage, cruel, and unusual punishment? And to your point about fighting on the battlefield like honorable men... Theres nothing honorable about invading a country, torturing people (civilians, or insurgents, it doesnt matter), and using prohibitted weapons on those people (the same prohibitted weapons you went there in the first place to find) The people fighting in Iraq have every right to do so, If someone came into my country and started using my neighbours for target practice and torture I would do anything in my power to get rid of them any way that I could. Defending your country and invading another country are 2 different things.

LOL are you serious?

Why dont you actually debate the video itself, instead of using it as a vechicle to spout policital trash?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

quit using civilian cars and children as suicide bombers and this stuff wouldn't be happening

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

quit using civilian cars and children as suicide bombers and this stuff wouldn't be happening

Before there were suicide bombers in Iraq there were Americans dropping bombs on densely populated Iraqi cities, guaranteeing civilian deaths. The claim that Americans don't target civilians is B.S. Bombs don't discriminate. Maybe if Americans would stop killing Iraqis then Iraqis might stop killing Americans. Has it occured to you that one reason Iraqis might want to kill Americans is that damn near every Iraqi is related to someone murdered by American bombs or American guns?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

quit using civilian cars and children as suicide bombers and this stuff wouldn't be happening

Before there were suicide bombers in Iraq there were Americans dropping bombs on densely populated Iraqi cities, guaranteeing civilian deaths. The claim that Americans don't target civilians is B.S. Bombs don't discriminate. Maybe if Americans would stop killing Iraqis then Iraqis might stop killing Americans. Has it occured to you that one reason Iraqis might want to kill Americans is that damn near every Iraqi is related to someone murdered by American bombs or American guns?

You are asking the wrong person.

I empathize with your thoughts completely

But the OP is only trying to start a bunch of BS by over sensationalizing an event that may have been very necessary.. He/She makes it seem like the even was 100% malevolent and unnecessary...

Maybe they should have stood next to the suicide bomber and tried to talk him out of it .. oh that's right.. they aren't really suicide bombers.. they are Homicidal Bombers

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: envy me

Can you explain to me where in the video do you see any insurgents, or any savages? All I see is people opening fire on cars with automatic weapons. Thats what I see. Who are savages? Isn't torturing people considered savage, cruel, and unusual punishment? And to your point about fighting on the battlefield like honorable men... Theres nothing honorable about invading a country, torturing people (civilians, or insurgents, it doesnt matter), and using prohibitted weapons on those people (the same prohibitted weapons you went there in the first place to find) The people fighting in Iraq have every right to do so, If someone came into my country and started using my neighbours for target practice and torture I would do anything in my power to get rid of them any way that I could. Defending your country and invading another country are 2 different things.

The entire point of the Insurgents dressing like Civilians and joining the public mass is *precisely* to make it difficult to tell the savages from the civilians. I believe I already pointed this out to you, though you aren't able to grasp it.

As for invading a country that's ruled by a DICTATOR, yes, there's every bit of honor to be found there. Overthrowing tyrants is ALWAYS right, ALWAYS moral, ALWAYS honorable. As a matter of simple fact, the insurgency in Iraq is a *tiny* minority of the whole population. If it were a majority, our forces would have been consumed within DAYS, if not HOURS of entering the country. Frankly, I don't care what weapons they use on them as long as they put their little suicide-bombing asses DOWN where they belong. It's unfortunate that innocents have to die, I won't dispute that--but that's war for you. It's easy for us to sit on the sidelines and be for or against, but the reality is that we can't imagine what it was like to live under a brutal dictator like Saddam, nor can we predict with certainty the good-or ill-that will come as a result of their liberation. If they're very lucky they'll end up like the US: Well-to-do, prosperous, with a mind toward the idea that all are created equal and ought, by right, to be FREE from tyranny and oppression. If they're not lucky they'll end up with another SAVAGE for a dictator and the Muslim world will continue to live in the ignorance they have for a thousand years.

Here's to recognize the truth that war is horrible, the truth that some causes are worth fighting, dying and killing for, and to the hope that all of this, in 20-40 years will result in an Iraq that inspires other Savage muslim nations to overthrow their tyrant dictators and assert their rights to life, liberty and property.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

The fact is this: In war, innocent people get hurt. It's called collateral damage. It sucks, yes, but it's a fact of life. For the most part, we DO and HAVE tried to avoid civilians as much as possible. It's precisely BECAUSE of this fact that these SAVAGES choose to hide in and around civilians. Who is it who doesn't give a piss? The INSURGENT SAVAGES. If they gave one BIT of a damn about innocent lives, about the Iraqi people, about ANYTHING at all but their fanatical cause, their devotion to the idea that people should be ruled with an iron fist, they'd put on uniforms and fight on the battlefield like real honest, HONORABLE men.

The bottom line is that the insurgents are SAVAGES. They do not fight with HONOR, they do not care AT ALL about the "Innocent Iraqi civilians". If, in order to defeat these SAVAGES and bring peace and order to Iraq we have to risk some civilian lives, then so be it. It's not the best situation, but you're never going to get the best situation when you're dealing with SAVAGES.

Jason

Savages.... They're a lot smarter than you are. They probably actually KNOW just wtf is going on. The point is, the U.S. shouldn't BE in Iraq in the first place! (where are the WMD again?, if you recall THAT was the justification for attacking Iraq) And here you are gloating about the indiscriminant slaughter of the Iraqi people.
Who are the savages again? :disgust: Just don't whine when another 9/11 happens.

Yes, the Iraqi's are so enormously intelligent that the MAJORITY (the Shiites) allowed a MINORITY (the Sunni's) to rule over them with an iron fist, intimidate them daily, abuse them at will, murder them en masse and so on for a *generation*. I'm so glad that they're so terribly intelligent and understand exactly what's going on.

In your little mind, I suppose that Iraq's just a nation full of masochists looking for another whipping "scene" because they get off on it.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: envy me

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Oh right I forgot.. The part of the innocent victim is reserved for the Americans, everyone else deserves to die right.

So by your logic, if an armed fellon decides to hide near you and your family in a public place, the police have the right to blast a bullet in your head just because you look suspicious or are around a suspicious looking person? That's quite the plan.

quit using civilian cars and children as suicide bombers and this stuff wouldn't be happening

Before there were suicide bombers in Iraq there were Americans dropping bombs on densely populated Iraqi cities, guaranteeing civilian deaths. The claim that Americans don't target civilians is B.S. Bombs don't discriminate. Maybe if Americans would stop killing Iraqis then Iraqis might stop killing Americans. Has it occured to you that one reason Iraqis might want to kill Americans is that damn near every Iraqi is related to someone murdered by American bombs or American guns?

Actually, our satellite-guided bombs DO discriminate. They targeted military targets, which Saddam INTENTIONALLY placed in neighborhoods and populated areas. Those were LEGITIMATE targets, and since we've just been told a couple of posts up that the Iraqi people are so damn smart, it's reasonable to assume they put two and two together, said "Hey, that's a military target next to my house. I'm getting out of dodge!".

Again, it's a TINY fraction of the Iraqi's--and if news reports are to be believed, numerous terrorists from elsewhere in the world--who constitute the insurgency. Chances are that many are Saddam loyalists who actually *believe* they can get him back in power.

I suspect that things will settle down a bit more once they get that dictator tried, convicted and EXECUTED.

Jason

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Savages.... They're a lot smarter than you are. They probably actually KNOW just wtf is going on. The point is, the U.S. shouldn't BE in Iraq in the first place! (where are the WMD again?, if you recall THAT was the justification for attacking Iraq) And here you are gloating about the indiscriminant slaughter of the Iraqi people.
Who are the savages again? :disgust: Just don't whine when another 9/11 happens.

A hit, and a miss.

You know how I know that Iraqis had WMDs - France and U.S. sold it to them during the Iran-Iraq war.

We sold them HUGE stocks of chemical weapons, and supplied them with know-how and equipment to make biological weapons as well. The fact that none of it was found is a testament to the HUMONGOUS failure of intelligence that is the Gulf War 2.

Now it is also clear that WMDs weren't the real reason we went to war with Iraq, but don't discount historical fact just because it doesn't support your argument.

 

[Tangerines]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
Yes, because it's oh-so-easy to tell the innocent civilians from the militants who *dress* as innocent civilians do and wander in/around/through crowds of innocent civilians deciding where to blow themselves and anyone nearby to smithereens.

Don't go trying to paint the Iraqi people as poor, innocent bystanders. Sure, there are plenty of them who ARE innocent, but the moral crime is on the MILITANTS who prefer to hide among the innocent and spread their own destruction to as many undeserving people as they can. In this scenario, there is NOTHING else our military can do but fire on whoever looks suspicious. It's a crappy plan, to be sure, but the morally depraved here aren't our soldiers, it's the insurgents who INTENTIONALLY bring the violence to civilian areas.

Jason

Exactly.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

If you dont mind me asking how old are you?

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

If you dont mind me asking how old are you?

I turned 30 in February

Jason

 

[envy me]

You people fail to realize that the video is showing people in a car, driving, and shooting other cars behind them, and then continuing to drive. Ok.. First of all, if they were shooting at insurgents or infidels or whatever you claim, why would they not drive back to confirm a kill? To secure any explosives, and secure the area. This video just shows driving, shooting, driving away. It looks as though the shooting was done recreationally and not to save any lives or kill any insurgents.