PSA: If you currently have anything slower than a G4560 or Ryzen 3 1200, UPGRADE!

[VirtualLarry]

Yes but $100 in usa.
Here we pay taxes on top on the mrp. Ryzen 1300X $156 while G4560 $85.
overclocking is good to have but again B350 cost atleast $100 here while H110 can be had for $60.

With those prices, I can see how you would favor Intel in that situation.

Here, on ebay in USA, Ryzen 3 1200 is $110 list, but goes on sale for $100 sometimes. G4560 is $100 from scalpers. (Although, G4600 is available from legit retailers for $87.)

Motherboards, you can get a B350 board from Newegg.com in USA for $59.99, H110 boards are roughly $45 on sale, sometimes after a $10 MIR.

RAM, well, the "good stuff" for Ryzen (3000/3200), IS a bit more expensive, while you can get away with 2133, or 2400, DDR4 for G4560.

 

[kwalkingcraze]

PC hardware is becoming more and more expensive. Ram prices have doubled and are further expected to increase by another 40%.
Graphics card prices have shot up as well.
Prices on all computer components have shot up and taxes have increased.
All while one can just buy a brand new PS4 for $250...

Launch price history has shown Ivy Bridge was the least-expensive, and new Coffee Lake will reach new record price. Looks like i3-8350K (not pictured) will be seeing higher launch price at $199.99. So, CPUs continue to get more unaffordable each year.

 

[PeterScott]

PC hardware is becoming more and more expensive. Ram prices have doubled and are further expected to increase by another 40%.
Graphics card prices have shot up as well.
Prices on all computer components have shot up and taxes have increased.
All while one can just buy a brand new PS4 for $250...

PC sales have been falling for years. It is almost like manufacturers are trying to make up for it by increasing prices. Maybe they think all desktop buyers that are left, are hardcore and will just grit their teeth and pay more.

I'd like to build a new Desktop PC, but I am very disinclined by all the price hikes.

 

[LightningZ71]

R&D on newer and smaller process nodes is becoming increasingly expensive over time. Foundaries are starting to have to use tech that was originally developed for niche products to achieve generational improvements. While smaller processes can yield higher circuit densities, which could result in more chips per water, chips are getting bigger and bigger (circuit count wise) due to larger caches, more cores, integrated chipset features and additional memory controllers. All of this results in fewer perfect dies per wafer, more complex wafer production processes, and generally more production difficulties. Now, spread those much higher costs over lower sales volumes and you get higher sales prices to cover costs.

Throw all of that on top of an industry that is trying to regain sanity after nearly a decade of cut throat competition to stay in business over the long term. Value will be a scarce thing going forward.

 

[Torn Mind]

Oh, how Larry has changed in just a few months. Now he's trying to get people to buy things with performance in mind.

 

[whm1974]

Oh, how Larry has changed in just a few months. Now he's trying to get people to buy things with performance in mind.

getting a higher performance machine then what you usually get tends to do that.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Except for this Biostar Hi-Fi A70U3P FM2+ board...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138415

I know about all the price increases on all PC parts, so I've decided to buy-up and stock-up all the final-edition LGA1150, FM2+, and AM3+ boards as best as possible, and then I officially exit the PC building game for the rest of my life. These obsolete sockets should last me for the next 40 years, and I will have a $5 i7-4790 by 2057 year. Some boards will die of course, but capacitors have 50 year shelf-life at room temperature. I should be fine, maybe Windows 10 will be here for next 20 years.

FM2+? AM3+? Are you kidding? That stuff is cheap because people are dumping it, for good reason. 40 years? How much do you hate yourself?

 

[VirtualLarry]

FM2+? AM3+? Are you kidding? That stuff is cheap because people are dumping it, for good reason. 40 years? How much do you hate yourself?

LOL. Evidently, a lot. Or maybe, he'll make good money in 40 years, because the super-powerful PCs of that day may be so "borged", that they're no longer considered "Personal" Computers.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Locutus would approve.

 

[kwalkingcraze]

FM2+? AM3+? Are you kidding? That stuff is cheap because people are dumping it, for good reason. 40 years? How much do you hate yourself?

I already listed LGA1150 in here. Are people dumping i7-4790K because it's slow and cheap?

 

[amd6502]

If you have no desktops (and no high end laptop) this may be a good suggestion. The performance of these is to similar to my current 7860k and FX8300 that for me it makes more sense to save up for a 6+ core (1600 or higher) system. Also memory is expensive at the moment and doesn't encourage switching from older DDR3 desktops.

Probably quite a few on here are in the same boat (or think my systems are ghetto). I'd be curious to see a survey of how many desktops (and laptops) people here have, and how many are DDR3, DDR4, etc.

 

[whm1974]

If you have no desktops (and no high end laptop) this may be a good suggestion. The performance of these is to similar to my current 7860k and FX8300 that for me it makes more sense to save up for a 6+ core (1600 or higher) system. Also memory is expensive at the moment and doesn't encourage switching from older DDR3 desktops.

Probably quite a few on here are in the same boat (or think my systems are ghetto). I'd be curious to see a survey of how many desktops (and laptops) people here have, and how many are DDR3, DDR4, etc.

I can imagine quite a lot of folks are still DDR3 and Haswell level CPUs.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I already listed LGA1150 in here. Are people dumping i7-4790K because it's slow and cheap?

In 40 years, Haswell Refresh will be an antique. The point still stands. Hell I wouldn't touch Haswell with a 10-foot pole today.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hell I wouldn't touch Haswell with a 10-foot pole today.

MEANIE!!!! Haswell needs love too...

Edit: On a more serious note, Haswell is kind of like an in-between arch. Still on DDR3, not bad IPC, slightly less than Ryzen. If someone was on Haswell, I would say that they probably don't have any pressing need to upgrade to something newer, unless they need more cores. Anyone on Sandy, Ivy, or prior (1st-gen Core, Core2), probably should strongly consider upgrading, if not the G4560 or Ryzen 3, then to CFL-S, or Raven Ridge when it comes out.

 

[whm1974]

MEANIE!!!! Haswell needs love too...

Edit: On a more serious note, Haswell is kind of like an in-between arch. Still on DDR3, not bad IPC, slightly less than Ryzen. If someone was on Haswell, I would say that they probably don't have any pressing need to upgrade to something newer, unless they need more cores. Anyone on Sandy, Ivy, or prior (1st-gen Core, Core2), probably should strongly consider upgrading, if not the G4560 or Ryzen 3, then to CFL-S, or Raven Ridge when it comes out.

I have a Haswell i5 CPU and right now I have no need to upgrade at all. Chances are I could wait another three years before I need to.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You can camp on Haswell for awhile. I just wouldn't buy it up, that's all. R5s are just too cheap. Cheapest 4790k I can find on eBay is $250 shipped. Cheapest one on pcpartspicker is $322 for an OEM tray CPU. Those prices are probably somewhat inflated to take advantage of LGA1150 holders looking for an upgrade; meanwhile, an R5 1600 + ASRock B350 Pro4 would cost about the same as the eBay CPU and less than the OEM tray CPU. Only barrier to entry at that point is the DDR4.

 

[EXCellR8]

last bandwagon I jumped on was Sky-S, and i was pretty late to that party. I still run two Haswell processors more frequently than the 6600K though; actually need to rework the cooling on one of them.

I didn't build with Threadripper either though, buy Ryzen 5 & 7 are such a good value and fast DDR4 is slowly coming down in price

 

[kwalkingcraze]

Cheapest 4790k I can find on eBay is $250 shipped. Cheapest one on pcpartspicker is $322 for an OEM tray CPU. Those prices are probably somewhat inflated to take advantage of LGA1150 holders looking for an upgrade.

Don't panic. These prices will eventually drop and bottom down to $20 after 20 years or so. While I'm busy buying and stocking up all the final-edition old socket boards, like LGA1150, people that see these CPU prices later will definitely regret for not buying these boards early in first place. "Buy boards now, buy CPUs later." Best decision I've made.

i7-4790K will still be 2 times faster than the cheapest CPU in 2037. You'll see... The future of CPUs are now more heavily emphasized in lowering power consumption with better graphics up to 10,000 benchmark score, while maintaining the same CPU single-thread performance rating no higher than 2,500 score.

I don't have any Z97 boards right now. They were never cheap in first place and even at the end. Only Z170s are plentiful with lots of deal.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Don't panic. These prices will eventually drop and bottom down to $20 after 20 years or so. While I'm busy buying and stocking up all the final-edition old socket boards, like LGA1150, people that see these CPU prices later will definitely regret for not buying these boards early in first place. "Buy boards now, buy CPUs later." Best decision I've made.

i7-4790K will still be 2 times faster than the cheapest CPU in 2037. You'll see... The future of CPUs are now more heavily emphasized in lowering power consumption with better graphics up to 10,000 benchmark score, while maintaining the same CPU single-thread performance rating no higher than 2,500 score.

I don't have any Z97 boards right now. They were never cheap in first place and even at the end. Only Z170s are plentiful with lots of deal.

Yup, you're crazy. Or this silliness is merely a parody of something.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yup, you're crazy. Or this silliness is merely a parody of something.

LOL. Anyone want to guess, how many cores CPUs will have by 2020? (Only 3 years away!)

I'm thinking, 8C/16T will be mainstream, and cutting-edge mainstream (at least, 7nm Zen 2-based CPUs) will be 12C/24T.

I'm also hoping for at least a (tiny) on-package GPU for regular Zen 2 CPUs, that would really make them work for business PCs, which really need at least a tiny iGPU for desktop tasks.

 

[ao_ika_red]

Imo, for personal use, 4c/8t should be a norm for low cost build, but for office / enterprise / business OEMs 2C/4T system will be more than enough for years to come. I don't see word processing sw needs more than 2T, tbh.

 

[Triloby]

Haswell i5-4460 here. Try to convince me why I should side-grade or upgrade my CPU, when I don't do much in the way of compute-heavy work.

 

[tential]

Rofl, Virtual Larry now setting the minimum CPU standards for anandtech.
Jesus, I never thought I'd see the day.

Guys, Larry used to love low end tech. Now, he has standards, and convincing people to upgrade.

Oh, how Larry has changed in just a few months. Now he's trying to get people to buy things with performance in mind.

For any long time member, this is huge. This is a big deal guys.
If Larry is telling you low end tech sucks, it sucks.

Really my post was just to chime in about what you've said haha. He's a new man!

 

[kwalkingcraze]

Rofl, Virtual Larry now setting the minimum CPU standards for anandtech.
Jesus, I never thought I'd see the day.

Guys, Larry used to love low end tech. Now, he has standards, and convincing people to upgrade.



For any long time member, this is huge. This is a big deal guys.
If Larry is telling you low end tech sucks, it sucks.

Really my post was just to chime in about what you've said haha. He's a new man!

That's great to hear, he might have an increase of personal income lately, or he moved in to a luxury home. Who knows? I'm still stagnant, so I'm still sticking to the fastest and cheapest low-end CPUs I can find. Unless someone ships me a i7 for this Christmas they don't need?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Guys, Larry used to love low end tech. Now, he has standards, and convincing people to upgrade.

I thought that the G4560 and Ryzen 3 1200 were "low-end tech". (*confused*) Low-end, but at least, modern. Thus, not slow. Like (some) older tech.

And in terms of bang-for-buck performance, I rate them pretty highly. Sure, they're $100, which a Haswell Celeron G1840, if available, is around $60-70 NIB, but you get SO MUCH MORE performance.

Although, you need a dGPU with the Ryzen 3 1200 rig, so that's another added expense. Could really use Raven Ridge for some nice juicy budget desktop builds. Hopefully, the Zen-based APU products will also be unlocked.

Edit: I mean, it's not like I'm telling everyone to upgrade to a Ryzen 5 1600 CPU and overclock it, if they currently are rocking Haswell or a quad-core, although I have made that recommendation to "gamers". (I do think that's an excellent bang-for-buck solution for gaming, and I've personally invested in those for my rigs.)

I guess, I'm just overjoyed, at how freaking fast, for desktop tasks, a Ryzen 3 1200 @ 3.8Ghz (easy OC on included stock cooler), and a 128GB PCI-E M.2 SSD is. BLAZING!

Nothing at all like your Dad's older Core2 rig with a 1TB WD Blue HDD. (*)

(*) Nothing against people still rocking that tech, it has its uses.

The amount of bang-for-buck for "budget" rigs, has increased tremendously at the lower ends, in the last six months to a year. (Ok, really, since around the G4560 and Ryzen came out. They were a new benchmark for what you can get for performance in lower-end CPUs.)

I'm still a fan of performance, on the cheap, and a fan of desktop rigs, specifically.

Edit: Oh, and... if you don't care about building "new", but are OK with refurb / used, you can get a heck of a deal on some decent off-lease business desktops with Sandy and Ivy Bridge quad-core i5 CPUs, usually with some acceptable amount of RAM and a small-ish HDD, sometimes with COA sticker, sometimes with OS pre-installed, for relatively cheap. (Newegg likes to charge $300 for them, but I've seen occasional deals, like the other day on Newegg, they had a SFF HP 8300 desktop, with an i5 3.2Ghz 3rd-gen (Ivy), with 4GB of RAM (DDR3, I think), and a ... maybe 500GB HDD, for $140.

That's a lot of bang for buck, if you're still on a Core2 dual-core rig. Granted, it still doesn't have a lot of RAM, or a an SSD, but those things can be generally easily upgraded.

I did that for a buddy of mine that was rocking a Core2Quad Q9400, before I built my two Ryzen 3 1200 OC rigs. I dropped in 8GB (or did I put 16GB in his), a 128GB SSD, a 1TB (new) WD Blue 7200 RPM HDD, and a mini-sized Zotac GTX1050 2GB. (No ti, prices were too high on those.) Total cost including OS (it had a Windows 7 Pro COA attached), was $400.

Not a huge qty. yet of off-lease Haswell quad-cores (4th Gen), and refurb Skylake quads, are practically at the price of new rigs.

OTOH, I've seen new i5-6400 Skylake rigs, with 8GB DDR4, and a HDD, no SSD, no dGPU, for $400. (A certain Acer or Asus comes to mind.) So, there's that, too. But the i5-6400 can't be overclocked in OEM rigs like that, and stock speed is only like 2.8Ghz. Which, with Skylake, is still a LOT of performance, but I prefer my Skylake CPUs north of 4Ghz, if I can get them there.