PSA: If your mortgage underwriter hasn't asked for anything yet...

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
Then that means that they simply have not looked at your file. At all. Period. Haven't even cracked it open, haven't looked at your name, don't know any details about your situation. And they probably will not do so until 2-3 days before your closing date.

For the uninitiated: You fill out the application and send all your crap (tax returns, check stubs, bank statements, whatever) to your Loan Officer. This guy is basically just a salesman. He hands that stuff over to the Loan Processor. The Loan Processor might ask for a few things, but if you have all the basic stuff that the LO asked for, then the LP probably won't ask for anything more. They will take all your docs and tell you a week before closing that everything looks great.

But they don't know shit. The Underwriter is the one with the power. And he will not look at your file until a few days before closing. And he will come up with all kinds of things that you have to hand in; letters of explanation that you have to write; etc. Sometimes he will ask for something, and you will provide it, and the Loan Processor (who you are talking to directly by this point) will make you think that it's ok. Then the day that you're supposed to close, nope, sorry, Underwriter says that's not good enough, the Processor just misunderstood what he wanted before, you've got to go and get this thing on company letterhead.

I am applying for what I thought was a slam-dunk mortgage: Credit scores for my wife and I are in the 790's, house is only $100k, we're putting down 20% with cash from our savings accounts, income is $100k+, I own another piece of property free and clear already. But no. This process is killing me. I've had trouble sleeping, trouble eating. Trouble concentrating, trouble working.

I was up-front the whole time with the LO that I was self-employed, that my file might require a little more work than the standard person's; hey, might want to get an early start on it; could we try and close early? (knowing that we wouldn't actually close early, but that the underwriter would probably require some stuff and I didn't want it coming up at the very last minute.)

No. They did not get an early start on it. The first that I heard that there was a problem and that more documentation would be required, was September 3. We were scheduled to close on September 5. Finally got clearance to close today at 4:45PM. Hopefully the title company has some open slots tomorrow.

Once this thing is finished and my name is on the deed, I will name names (probably not here -- this is more of a rant/vent -- but on some review site where it's appropriate). I think that some of the stuff that went on here was just totally bogus. I am totally willing to trash these companies' reputations (not just the mortgage co; the appraisal co. had significant timeliness problems as well) on the Internet, because when I searched for them before I agreed to go with them, I didn't find anything resembling an actual review.

I don't have a problem with anything they asked me to provide. Ok, they're giving me lots of money, I understand if they want to see some documentation. However, the manner in which it was handled was simply horrible.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
That is your loan officer's lack of knowledge or your lack of understanding him. I can guarantee your underwriter was being pressured to not condition for anything else.

The only thing being self-employed should cause is two year's worth of tax returns, as well as third party verification that you are in fact employed (which is what I am assuming your company letterhead condition was? Needed it from CPA stating you have been self employed for at least 2 years, and had to include his tax preparer's number?

Either that or you are using funds out of a business or DBA account for your down payment, which triggers a condition for a letter from a CPA stating that using business funds to buy personal property won't negatively effect your business?

Nobody wants to have it over faster than the buyer, but your loan officer and underwriter are pretty damn close behind.


And yes...most loan officers have no idea how to put a loan together. They are salespeople....they don't read investor guidelines, and frankly most don't care. The majority live one loan at a time, and don't care about actually learning the operations side of it.


LP means you are being backed by Freddie Mac, but that is just an automated system that reviews the information put in by the Loan Officer. The underwriter has to actually verify that information. Maybe you had a large increase in income between 2011 and 2012, and your LO didn't average the two years, he just took 2012.

Maybe he didn't know you can add back in depreciation and mileage. (If you are Schedule C)

Maybe he didn't know how to properly calculate your T&I on your free and clear property correctly.


Your loan doesn't sound difficult, but to an average LO, it is over their head.
 
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KlokWyze

Diamond Member
Sep 7, 2006
4,451
9
81
www.dogsonacid.com
This process is killing me. I've had trouble sleeping, trouble eating. Trouble concentrating, trouble working.

Yeah. Sounds like me earlier this year. Finally got into our house after all the BULLSHIT run around from our loan officer, who wasn't stupid, he just didn't know what was going on and kept asking for the same documents in different formats. My local TD branch manager fucking hated me and I hated my loan officer.

It just seemed like the process was really determined by the people and not the process itself. Considering this is a relatively large sum of money, you would think these guys would have more stringent processes in place. Nope.

Also, real estate agencies are just rackets. It's just a license to extort 6%. It's not hard to find listings and negotiate a price. The offer paper work wasn't even that complex. Certainly not compared to the loan application bullshit.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Why wouldn't you post it here? Are we not deserving enough to know your opinion on certain companies?
 

fstime

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2004
4,384
5
81
The banks have been running a scam since the housing bubble burst and they received TARP funds. They purposely try to drag out all real estate related transactions.

Rather than let the market naturally correct itself, they allowed delinquent homeowners to remain in the homes for months or even years before foreclosing on the property. It's all a game to choke the supply. I laugh every time a see a foreclosed property going tens of thousands of dollars over asking price.

They only allow very few on the market at once and when they finally do come out, a bidding war starts over hungry investors paying cash and mortgage financed persons.

All this is probably thanks to all the bailout funds the banks received, it allowed them to sit on toxic assets for years where as they would normally get them off the books. The real estate market and the economy in general is all smoke and mirrors. Underneath it all, our whole economy is rotten to the core.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Hmm..never had this issue buying a house. Went in asked for a loan, they said yes, bought house.
 

T9D

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2001
5,320
6
0
Should have just taken an equity loan out on the house you have. It's hella fast and easy. Then you can usually get other properties way cheaper and close way faster since you are paying cash. And you'll still have at least one property free and clear. As you pay it off you then have that extra amount left on the loan to spend as the need or want arises.
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
Why wouldn't you post it here? Are we not deserving enough to know your opinion on certain companies?

Eh. Kind of enjoy my mostly-anonymity here. Don't really care to announce where I live, etc. I'll say this, though, they're not really a big company. Not one of the big guys; although they are growing, I think they're only in 15 states or so. Certainly not a household name, and I don't think they're even publicly traded.

My first mortgage (on the other property that I own and paid off) was through WF, and that process was smooth and easy (of course, it was a no-doc loan in 2007). In hindsight, I should have gone with them again. I feel like I kind of betrayed my LO who I really liked at WF.

Addressing some other questions:

Unfortunately, that other property is a small condo worth only about $40k, so it wasn't really an option to get a HEL on that property in order to fund this one. Definitely wished it were, though.

The other issue (that required letterhead) was related to my condo as well. They wanted to know my expenses on the condo, since I am going to keep it and rent it out. I wrote up a little summary of my expenses and submitted it last Monday morning (the Monday after the Thursday that I was originally scheduled to close). I got a call TODAY (this Monday, one week later) saying that the underwriter required a verification of the condo HOA dues, on letterhead, from the condo HOA. WTF, they couldn't have told me this maybe... last Tuesday, after reviewing the 5 documents that I sent to them?

Again, I am NOT disputing the need for any of the documents that they requested. I was able to provide everything they needed, and they don't need to justify it. I just want them to get to my stuff in a timely manner and not create a new crisis every time I'm supposed to close.

They did request a CPA's statement. I do not use a CPA, I have no business license, I have been self-employed for 8 years in the same profession and have had fairly steady income for the past 3 years (after increasing the 5 years prior to that). So fortunately they accepted a letter explaining my business and how I get new business.

This is a conventional loan, not FHA.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Like most of us have $100k+ in cash just sitting around...

This is ATOT. We can ask one of our supermodel girlfriends/mistresses to grab it from the glove compartment of our sports car while the other one makes us a sammich.
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
Oh yeah, one other thing for some context. I'm working in a new city, hence buying the house. Opportunities in my line of work are much better in this new city and hopefully won't require me to be on the road all the time like it has been for most of the time that I've been doing it.

Anyway, the real context is that my wife is 7 months pregnant. If we weren't trying to get into the house and settled in before the baby arrives, I would have told these guys to f* off weeks ago due to their BS. But I figured that switching mortgage companies mid-stream would only result in further delay.
 

mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,670
160
106
I'm doing a refi, and its tightened up since the last time, more paper, more layers, but you do what you gotta do, and wanting it fast almost always has issues.
 

boomhower

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2007
7,228
19
81
No, that's not how it works. You have a crappy lender. I used Wells Fargo last year and it was a simple and smooth process. Underwritter had the file, and looked at it, around a week before closing and approved it. LO, LP, and underwritter all had their stuff together. Made it an easy process.
 

jaedaliu

Platinum Member
Feb 25, 2005
2,670
1
81
$40k condo?

Man, $100k/year salary in an area with $100k houses. You can pay off a property every 2 or 3 years (will accelerate as you hit critical mass with rentals) and be the slum lord of the area!
 
Dec 26, 2007
11,783
2
76
Dude... I know what you mean. I'm closing on a house right now as well (close is about 3 weeks out). Right now I'm in the process of submitting the more detailed docs they have requested (stuff like verification of my downpayment funds for example). It's been mildly annoying. I get them docs and then they come back saying it's not right or good enough. I think I have the right docs for that stuff so far. I'm keeping it all ready though just in case I need it again.

This stuff is mildly annoying and so far (only once) has made me want to just say screw it and back out of the entire deal...
 

drbrock

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2008
1,333
8
81
The banks have been running a scam since the housing bubble burst and they received TARP funds. They purposely try to drag out all real estate related transactions.

Rather than let the market naturally correct itself, they allowed delinquent homeowners to remain in the homes for months or even years before foreclosing on the property. It's all a game to choke the supply. I laugh every time a see a foreclosed property going tens of thousands of dollars over asking price.

They only allow very few on the market at once and when they finally do come out, a bidding war starts over hungry investors paying cash and mortgage financed persons.

All this is probably thanks to all the bailout funds the banks received, it allowed them to sit on toxic assets for years where as they would normally get them off the books. The real estate market and the economy in general is all smoke and mirrors. Underneath it all, our whole economy is rotten to the core.

This....

At least that is what is happening in South Florida right now. I work in real estate tax and we hired a consultant to come speak to the firm and he basically said the same thing. Consumers are finding it diffucult just to find something in the 150-300 range. You don't start finding open properties until you hit the 500k range. Couple with fighting cash buyers most average people are at a disadvantage. No way would I touch a house until this mess is over with. Market correction is coming in the next two years.
 

BergeLSU

Senior member
Apr 6, 2011
475
0
76
Dude... I know what you mean. I'm closing on a house right now as well (close is about 3 weeks out). Right now I'm in the process of submitting the more detailed docs they have requested (stuff like verification of my downpayment funds for example). It's been mildly annoying. I get them docs and then they come back saying it's not right or good enough. I think I have the right docs for that stuff so far. I'm keeping it all ready though just in case I need it again.

This stuff is mildly annoying and so far (only once) has made me want to just say screw it and back out of the entire deal...


We moved all of our cash from our savings account to our checking (From S000 to D009) and they wanted more documentation of where that money came from. Somehow, our bank statements weren't enough.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
With the interest rates where they are. I wouldnt pay cash for a house.

That said the mortgage industry is a god damned mess in my experience.
 

ZaneNBK

Golden Member
Sep 14, 2000
1,674
0
76
I'm considered self employed and we had no problem buying a house with 20% down about 3.5 years ago. I just gave them two years of tax returns and that was it.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,740
452
126
This process is killing me. I've had trouble sleeping, trouble eating. Trouble concentrating, trouble working.

You're either blowing things way out of proportion for the story, or you need to calm down. Why sould such a thing keep you up at night? I had problems as well, on top of the fact that I was a first time home buyer with little credit (and didn't know wtf I was doing), was doing it all on my own, and was trying to beat the FHA rule changes in April so was under a time constraint. None of which kept me up at night. For somebody who's done it before, has the money, and has awesome credit, you sure did get your asshole puckered up for nothing.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
You're either blowing things way out of proportion for the story, or you need to calm down. Why sould such a thing keep you up at night? I had problems as well, on top of the fact that I was a first time home buyer with little credit (and didn't know wtf I was doing), was doing it all on my own, and was trying to beat the FHA rule changes in April so was under a time constraint. None of which kept me up at night. For somebody who's done it before, has the money, and has awesome credit, you sure did get your asshole puckered up for nothing.

he's being a douchenozzle and I have money that says he wrote this thread to use as evidence in a lawsuit.

I'm going to lose sleep tonight over the OP being a whiny bitch. I need his info so I can sue.
 
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