PSA: Never Work For a Company With 3 Generations of Ownership

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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
You can tell people they're responsible until you're blue in the face, but unless they take that responsibility, the failure of the system due to shoddy data will be blamed on the core implementation team.

I'm part of a team in the final stages of a small scale ERP rollout (very small company that had an accounting and inventory nightmare on it's hands) using a Salesforce.com addon called Glovia. I was astounded at the blank stares I would get from people when I would ask for information or assign tasks, everybody just expects systems like to work without input from the business owners. It's a computer, it's supposed to make things easier, right? What's with all this "work" you want them to do?

That's very true, but I will say this about my customer -- they acknowledge their own lack of participation and involvement as the major causes of problems in the projects we've done. They aren't throwing us under the bus, thankfully, but our boneheaded PM should be a little more forceful IMO. They're getting billed hundreds of additional hours to update applications already in production simply because the users would not take a couple of hours to properly test and validate that the application works as intended. In one project, the business users will tell you "We want item A to be blue," it will roll to production, and then 3 weeks later, they'll scream they want item A to be red. What's REALLY bad is that it isn't like we give them the application URL and say "Test and let us know what happens!"; we give them extensive instructions and testing scripts to walk through and they still can't manage.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
hearing stuff like this makes me so happy that our VP of engineering who is a former software engineer herself was just made CEO of the company after the founders left.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
Companies always turn to shit when they go public. They'll fire their best people to cut costs and pad the bottom line. They forget that companies are supposed to make and sell things. How is your engineering firm supposed to get large contracts if you've just fired all of your senior engineers? That's like selling your car to raise cash. Then you realize you can't get to work because you have no way of getting to work, so you quit your job as well. Who cares if you don't have a job. That's next quarter! This quarter looks great because we sold all of our productive assets! We have so much cash on the balance sheet!

This reminded me of a place I once worked. The head of manufacturing was measured on revenue per employee which was supposed to indicate efficiency. So he came up with the idea of "renting out" space in the manufacturing area to other small companies, transferred the employees to them, paid them to do the work that the employees used to do,and there you go! Hardly any employees! Revenue per employee rises to stratospheric numbers.

Of course, without the big company infrastructure to support them, these
small companies struggled. Quality suffered. Deadlines missed. They couldn't afford to hold inventory. So the company had to bankroll their inventory and front them extra cash. Not a problem for the manufacturing head, though - he earned a giant bonus.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
That's very true, but I will say this about my customer -- they acknowledge their own lack of participation and involvement as the major causes of problems in the projects we've done. They aren't throwing us under the bus, thankfully, but our boneheaded PM should be a little more forceful IMO. They're getting billed hundreds of additional hours to update applications already in production simply because the users would not take a couple of hours to properly test and validate that the application works as intended. In one project, the business users will tell you "We want item A to be blue," it will roll to production, and then 3 weeks later, they'll scream they want item A to be red. What's REALLY bad is that it isn't like we give them the application URL and say "Test and let us know what happens!"; we give them extensive instructions and testing scripts to walk through and they still can't manage.

We just had the engineering department request a tool that retroactively modifies items because they don't want to do validation before go-live. If they wanted to do a proper validation without the tool it would take ~100 hours. The tool would only save about 20 of those hours. It would take the development team over double that to design and implement the custom solution solution. Management favors the engineering department approach because they don't understand the software development life cycle or how IT works in general.
 

kranky

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
21,014
137
106
We just had the engineering department request a tool that retroactively modifies items because they don't want to do validation before go-live. If they wanted to do a proper validation without the tool it would take ~100 hours. The tool would only save about 20 of those hours. It would take the development team over double that to design and implement the custom solution solution. Management favors the engineering department approach because they don't understand the software development life cycle or how IT works in general.

Just say, "It's a V lifecycle, everybody knows that. Just step aside and let me make the decisions."
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
We just had the engineering department request a tool that retroactively modifies items because they don't want to do validation before go-live. If they wanted to do a proper validation without the tool it would take ~100 hours. The tool would only save about 20 of those hours. It would take the development team over double that to design and implement the custom solution solution. Management favors the engineering department approach because they don't understand the software development life cycle or how IT works in general.

On one of the applications I built, the business owner had the application automatically apply date and time stamps to just about everything. It sounded like in the previous Notes system, people were fudging their dates to make themselves look better or to hide the fact they weren't doing their jobs.

So anyway, we roll the application out and that particular business owner leaves. Want to guess what the users are having us do now? If you said "remove the automatic date/time stamping and allow them to enter their own dates," you win!
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
Well I just found out today that the IT director has also started job interviewing. It'll be real fun once anyone with a clue is gone. It will take them at least 3-6 months to find another qualified resource in the area because of how remote it is. The most likely scenario is that that they hire us to run the accounting and IT departments during the transition. At 200/hr for 2 resources that's roughly 150-300k because of their incompetence.

Either way I'll get a ton of billable hours out of this clustfuck. The consultants always get paid in the end no matter what.

 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
Consulting is where it's at. I can never go back to regular IT work.

Nearly twice the pay of traditional IT without the politics? Get to work for a client for weeks/months then leave? Project work only, very little break/fix? Never on call?

Yes fucking please.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Consulting is where it's at. I can never go back to regular IT work.

Nearly twice the pay of traditional IT without the politics? Get to work for a client for weeks/months then leave? Project work only, very little break/fix? Never on call?

Yes fucking please.

This.

I have a phone interview later today, but I am not excited about it -- at all. It is a staff position and after working as a consultant from home the last 2 years, it is tough to get excited about going to work every day and dealing with politics. I'm hoping my current consulting gig (I'm basically an independent contractor) is extended or even made permanent, but I won't know that for 1-2 months, minimum.

Oh well, the phone interview will be good practice.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Now I sit in a chair, I can take my time, do things right. I get a budget and I get teamwork. It's a nice gig.

My current consulting gig is like that, plus I get to work from home 100% of the time. While there are aspects I don't like, every job has those and I'll put up with an awful lot of BS in order to work from home, not have to deal with politics, and not have to do lame things like team building activities, performance reviews, etc.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
I did the consulting gig. I found it full of sales promising things I can't deliver and being hung out to dry when I looked for support of my management. I found a group of guys half assing their way through work and leaving companies in a bind. On top of that I put 40k miles on my car and was overbooked with a constant stress to get things done in less hours that quoted so we can make a profit on our fixed fee work.

No thanks.

Now I sit in a chair, I can take my time, do things right. I get a budget and I get teamwork. It's a nice gig.

I've been fortunate so far then. The three VARs I've worked for haven't been like that at all. Sure, there's been challenges and frustrations, but for the most part I've had the support of management, the pre-sales architects knew their shit, and the large majority of my fellow engineers knew what they were doing. Those that didn't were shown the door if they couldn't be trained.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
This.

I have a phone interview later today, but I am not excited about it -- at all. It is a staff position and after working as a consultant from home the last 2 years, it is tough to get excited about going to work every day and dealing with politics. I'm hoping my current consulting gig (I'm basically an independent contractor) is extended or even made permanent, but I won't know that for 1-2 months, minimum.

Oh well, the phone interview will be good practice.

Is it where I think it is? Are you applying for a SharePoint infrastructure position?
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,899
63
91
Do all of you work independently or through another firm? I am thinking about contracting for a few years and wanted to know what you guys like the most about it.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
175
106
My employer is a VAR and service provider. I get paid a salary, bonus, benefits, etc. If you can get health insurance somehow, 1099 contract work is decent as well but beware the tax man.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
<ATOT blog mode>

Well the major update for today was that the company wanted me to create operations reports that would not agree with company financial statements because of the terribly designed business processes. It&#8217;s comparable to have a bank statement that doesn't agree to the amount of cash that you have in a bank account. We had to have a meeting with management to explain that the reports would be functionally useless. Of course they wanted to have us continue working on the reports that no one will use. I found out later that the reasons these reports are being created is so that operations can make up whatever numbers they want for management. If it doesn't tie out then there is no way to call their bluff.

Throughout the implementation there have been two departments that refuse to do anything. Two years into the project none of their employees know anything about the software that they are implementing. We found out today that those two departments approached management and complained that system is unstable and won&#8217;t meet their needs. They want to revert to the old system instead of continuing with the implementation.

The lesson learned is that if you don&#8217;t want to be part of the solution then you can sandbag a project until it dies. If you even do it right 50% of your time will be allocated to &#8220;project work&#8221; so it&#8217;s like a paid vacation. Win-win.

</ATOT blog mode>
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,135
1,594
126
But, but, but, CEO's are always worth their exorbitant salaries because of the value they bring to companies. They make more money so, they obviously know better than you.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
But, but, but, CEO's are always worth their exorbitant salaries because of the value they bring to companies. They make more money so, they obviously know better than you.

Absolutely are a dangerous thing. I find that many CEOs are worth the money they are paid because they get results. A bad CEO can be disastrous for a company while a good one can save it from the brink of disaster. The trick is to a find a CEO that works for everyone and can build a cohesive team.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,303
671
126
good or bad. CEO's get the golden parachute while your average working making 1000x less gets 6 months of unemployment and months of job interviews.
 
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