Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
You have failed to understand my complaint. Ill try one more time.

I dont think the House is wrong to investigate, and agree its their job. Ive never said otherwise. Even in the Mueller threads I stated I thought the the investigation should continue. I even quoted myself from one of those threads a page or two ago. My frustration is that IMHO they certainly must have enough to impeach on, and dont understand why they're dragging this newest one out. They dont need it. Their previous 12 investigations had to have revealed enough (Lord knows many on this forum think so based on previous threads). It has nothing to do with embarrassing the administration. It has everything to do with spending even more taxpayer money to get an impeachment vote, even though they have enough already.

I can't speak for House Democrats although I can guess at their motivations. Instead, to address your query I will answer about my motivations.

I have seen clear evidence to suspect that Trump may have committed multiple offenses in violation of oath of office, national interest, and in some cases the law.

My interest is a fair and expedient process to evaluate whether sufficient evidence for such offenses is collected to bring to trial in the Senate. I desire for that trial, should it be warranted, to proceed in an organized fashion akin to a criminal trial where the relevant evidence has already been collected prior to trial. Thus, trial becomes about an organized presentation of that evidence both in prosecution and defense. And I desire for that trial to have the same due process protections for the exclusion of hearsay evidence and the opportunity for Trump to confront all the accusers who present evidence at trial.

In order to accomplish this, I feel the House has drawn up a very good process to proceed at this stage, and to move forward to trial at this point would result in a trial which is disorganized, cannot effectively establish truth without including hearsay, and would consequently violate due process for Trump.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,995
49,761
136
You have failed to understand my complaint. Ill try one more time.

I dont think the House is wrong to investigate, and agree its their job. Ive never said otherwise. Even in the Mueller threads I stated I thought the the investigation should continue. I even quoted myself from one of those threads a page or two ago. My frustration is that IMHO they certainly must have enough to impeach on, and dont understand why they're dragging this newest one out. They dont need it. Their previous 12 investigations had to have revealed enough (Lord knows many on this forum think so based on previous threads). It has nothing to do with embarrassing the administration. It has everything to do with spending even more taxpayer money to get an impeachment vote, even though they have enough already.

How is it spending taxpayer money? All the participants are salaried to the best of my knowledge.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,802
12,925
146
I can't speak for House Democrats although I can guess at their motivations. Instead, to address your query I will answer about my motivations.

I have seen clear evidence to suspect that Trump may have committed multiple offenses in violation of oath of office, national interest, and in some cases the law.

My interest is a fair and expedient process to evaluate whether sufficient evidence for such offenses is collected to bring to trial in the Senate. I desire for that trial, should it be warranted, to proceed in an organized fashion akin to a criminal trial where the relevant evidence has already been collected prior to trial. Thus, trial becomes about an organized presentation of that evidence both in prosecution and defense. And I desire for that trial to have the same due process protections for the exclusion of hearsay evidence and the opportunity for Trump to confront all the accusers who present evidence at trial.

In order to accomplish this, I feel the House has drawn up a very good process to proceed at this stage, and to move forward to trial at this point would result in a trial which is disorganized, cannot effectively establish truth without including hearsay, and would consequently violate due process for Trump.
In addition, when that trial inevitably failed to convict Trump of wrongdoing in the eyes of the Senate, everyone would point at the Democrats/House as failing yet again to bring down Trump. 'If only they were competent, we wouldn't have to deal with this nightmare' they'd screech while voting R in 2020.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
For the quid pro quo complaint, yes I know this. This isnt the first investigation by the senate though.

So what? It's been patiently explained to you that Trump's withholding of evidence threw all that into the federal courts. You're also ignoring the apparent contradiction in what you've said. Letting the GOP call whatever immaterial witnesses they want would just impede the process. Delay is what they want. The closer we get to the election the more easily McConnell can ease into "Let the voters decide" to sidestep if he can.
 
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Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,801
2,351
136
Funny how "taxpayer money" seems to only apply to certain things.

Tax "reform" adding trillions to the debt to benefit gazillionaires? Didn't hear much about it then. Military scrapping a project that--oops!--just wasn't up to snuff, after spending billions on it? Crickets.

Heading off a wanna-be dictator who believes himself to be above the law unequivocally with an investigation that is by the rules, using in part evidence that the moron himself has given in public...seems like a pretty prudent use of funds to me. Hopefully we get our checks and balances back for "our" investment, you know the basis of our system of government....
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,102
136
LOL at Trump's new anti-impeachment strategy, which is to release a prior brief call he had with Zelensky in which he congralated him for winning his election and said nothing about the Bidens.


So the logic is, there was one call where I didn't try to extort Ukraine into helping me with the election, so that makes it OK that I did that very thing in a subsequent call.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,619
13,153
136
You understand that the very narrative that Biden needs to be investigated is what this impeachment is all about? You are effectively joining the #Obstruction crowd, sign in hand and everything?

You know who cooked the narrative that Biden is corrupt and needs investigating? Rudy went to Ukraine right? Got some papers. Its those papers you are parroting right now. Who cooked those papers? You should probably use duckduckgo cause google knows your heart and is prepared to feed you more fox breitbart and infowars. Duckduckgo, then check back with your learnings please. Lets talk.

....... found Viktor Shokin yet? What you think of him?


I know right?

So Viktor Shokin, who crafted the "Biden docs" and gave them to Giulliani to wave around on Fox news, was actually fired as Ukraines prosecutor general ... for not doing his job


"A search of the men’s apartments revealed a scene that looked like a comic heist: bags full of cash, diamonds and other precious stones. But that was not the only incriminating evidence. Documents seized at the time indicated the men appeared to have a connection to the top prosecutor in the land, Viktor Shokin. "

Shokin was part of the problem and therefor had to go.
Now Shokin is, as dirtbags often are, connected.


"Shokin filed an affidavit with an Austrian court in defense of oligarch Dmytri Firtash"

Remember Firtash? That guy figthting extradition to US for bribery. Firtash is also one of Putins goto oligark fellas when shit needs to get done.
Ooooh speaking of Firtash, you remember the three stooges going to Ukraine? Rudy Lev and Igor? Lev Parnas has a funny story too


"These new details appear to reveal a much more substantial relationship than previously known between Parnas and Firtash, and how Firtash's years-long extradition battle suddenly collided with Giuliani's push to dig up dirt on President Donald Trump's political opponents.""

So before I take Rudy Giullianis word.. erh I mean Viktor Shokins.. erh I mean Dmytro Firtashs.. erh I mean Vladimir Putins word (and springle some Lev and Igor on that) that Biden jaywalked whilest in Ukraine .... Id like another source for that. Dont you?
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Good news:


The staffer - David Holmes - who told Taylor that Sondland told him Trump was more interested in Biden than Ukraine will testify.
Cannot wait to see how they try to paint this guy in a bad light... his background is anti-Obama!
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
I know right?

So Viktor Shokin, who crafted the "Biden docs" and gave them to Giulliani to wave around on Fox news, was actually fired as Ukraines prosecutor general ... for not doing his job


"A search of the men’s apartments revealed a scene that looked like a comic heist: bags full of cash, diamonds and other precious stones. But that was not the only incriminating evidence. Documents seized at the time indicated the men appeared to have a connection to the top prosecutor in the land, Viktor Shokin. "

Shokin was part of the problem and therefor had to go.
Now Shokin is, as dirtbags often are, connected.


"Shokin filed an affidavit with an Austrian court in defense of oligarch Dmytri Firtash"

Remember Firtash? That guy figthting extradition to US for bribery. Firtash is also one of Putins goto oligark fellas when shit needs to get done.
Ooooh speaking of Firtash, you remember the three stooges going to Ukraine? Rudy Lev and Igor? Lev Parnas has a funny story too


"These new details appear to reveal a much more substantial relationship than previously known between Parnas and Firtash, and how Firtash's years-long extradition battle suddenly collided with Giuliani's push to dig up dirt on President Donald Trump's political opponents.""

So before I take Rudy Giullianis word.. erh I mean Viktor Shokins.. erh I mean Dmytro Firtashs.. erh I mean Vladimir Putins word (and springle some Lev and Igor on that) that Biden jaywalked whilest in Ukraine .... Id like another source for that. Dont you?

This was addressed in a previous post. I was unaware the Ukraine had investigated after Biden, and took action. I responded basically with a thumbsup. Thanks for the repost of info though!
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,677
4,151
136
LOL at Trump's new anti-impeachment strategy, which is to release a prior brief call he had with Zelensky in which he congralated him for winning his election and said nothing about the Bidens.


So the logic is, there was one call where I didn't try to extort Ukraine into helping me with the election, so that makes it OK that I did that very thing in a subsequent call.

LOL, I think a person on trial for murder should try this. “Your honor. It took me 46 years before I killed someone. That should count for something”
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,136
1,418
136
Nancy made it clear today that impeachment is going to be a reality.

Someone explain to me how impeachment is possible if the GOP is in power. Don't they have the majority of votes?

Explain to me as a non American.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Someone explain to me how impeachment is possible if the GOP is in power. Don't they have the majority of votes?

Explain to me as a non American.

Impeachment = House (Democrat controlled)
Trial = Senate (GOP controlled)

Much like Clinton it is possible for a president to be impeached but not convicted, and thus not removed.

Viper GTS
 

Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
2,136
1,418
136
So where does impeachment get you he if he is not convicted? Doesn't seem to help if he isn't removed.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Read the transcript! No, the other one!

Well, you see, Trump gave Zelensky the code words they'd use in the next conversation. No, Really! "Favor" means something like "paint job" & "server" refers to one of Zelensky's nephews who wants a job at Mar-a-Lago. And "crowdstrike" is like when everybody leaves one of his rallies. That thing about the Bidens is just a misprint. Trump meant bidets because he's concerned about how Ukrainians take care of their posteriors. And Rudy? He never told Trump what he was doing in Ukraine, said it would be a fabulous surprise. He's really upset with Rudy for telling all those people it was because of him.

That's all only slightly less believable than the impudent lies we're getting from Trump & his sycophants. I'm astounded at how arrogant they are to try to sell this shameful episode as being perfectly OK. The worst part is that they might be right that people will buy it.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
So where does impeachment get you he if he is not convicted? Doesn't seem to help if he isn't removed.
As stated, it is the right thing to do. Beyond that, it makes it very clear who the traitors are that defend his behavior from the consequences laid out plainly in the Constitution and those people can then be voted out, if not otherwise removed.

Those that stand between Trump and the consequences of his crimes are going to have a reckoning to deal with.

EDIT: And to be clear, anyone who is defending him publicly should certainly be privately telling him to resign. He's likely too stupid to do it, but anyone offering him any other advice is working a weird grift within a grift.
 
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