Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

[fskimospy]

The only thing I clearly indicated is that Pelosi should've stuck to her her original position.

Anything else is just you doing what you do best.

Which indicates you agreed with it. I don’t see why you’re playing this silly ‘who, me?’ game.

Is your sarcasm detector broken?

Oh, and "Insults for me, but not for thee."

I love it.

Okay great then, so back to my initial question. If this was a waste of time what should they have been doing instead?

 

[HomerJS]

Hey, you forgot to post the CNN article criticizing Trump for having an all-white legal team (not a joke by the way).

Let me know when Sekulow's son is getting paid $500,000 a month working in the Ukraine because of his daddy.

You mean like Ivanka getting a high level cushy job for which she is totally unqualified because of daddy?

Trump lawyer Pam Bondi was on a board in Qutar getting 115,000K/month. I guess they hired her because she in fluent in Arabic. I guess she knows about cush board gigs.

 

[HomerJS]

" Knowing full well that Trumps rabid base and I am including you in this would stop at nothing to harm the whistleblower!! "
^^^^^
I think this is against the forum rules now isn't it.

I didn't say I thought it was anything, just pointing out that it isn't illegal to do so. If you think it is illegal please cite the specific law that is being broken by invoking his name.

I think you would be happy to pass along the whistleblowers name. That's not against forum rules

 

[HomerJS]

Game, Set, Mitch

Congratulations, you have now set the precedent any President in the future can hold up state funding unless that state start criminal investigations against that President's opponent.

Great for the country.

 

[qliveur]

Which indicates you agreed with it. I don’t see why you’re playing this silly ‘who, me?’ game.

No, it really doesn't.

I can do this all day.

Okay great then, so back to my initial question. If this was a waste of time what should they have been doing instead?

Try to work together and reach some sort of compromise?

And, yes, I know it'll never happen, but it should.

 

[brycejones]

No, it really doesn't.

I can do this all day.

Try to work together and reach some sort of compromise?

And, yes, I know it'll never happen, but it should.

LOL, that's just some dishonest fuckery given your posting history here. Why do you do this?

 

[fskimospy]

No, it really doesn't.

I can do this all day.

Okay then why do you think she should have stuck with her initial position?

Try to work together and reach some sort of compromise?

And, yes, I know it'll never happen, but it should.

What compromise should they have reached and why would impeachment hearings use the necessary time needed to reach it?

 

[fskimospy]

LOL, that's just some dishonest fuckery given your posting history here. Why do you do this?

People are always firmly convinced Congress should do something better. They are never clear on exactly what that better thing is or how it would be accomplished.

It’s also funny to see people complain about Congress wasting time as if insufficient time on the legislative calendar is the reason why things don’t get done. It’s another one of those things that makes me wonder what planet they think they are living on.

 

[qliveur]

Okay then why do you think she should have stuck with her initial position?

Integrity?

/shrug

What compromise should they have reached and why would impeachment hearings use the necessary time needed to reach it?

A good start would be accepting Trump's presidency instead of constantly trying, and failing, to oust him.

I know: it'll never happen. That's been made very clear.

 

[zinfamous]

And out comes the cult.

 

[zinfamous]

And I agree with you 100%.

Immoral and underhanded doesn't equal illegal or an criminal action.

but it does equal impeachable (which doesn't require illegal or criminal...but you probably knew that, right?)

but it's great when all are true, because they are in this case. go figure

 

[Brainonska511]

A good start would be accepting Trump's presidency instead of constantly trying, and failing, to oust him.

There isn't a big enough eyeroll in the world for this nonsense. They don't need to roll over and blindly accept his criminal behavior like Republicans do. Trump is president, not a fucking king, and is subject to oversight from co-equal branches of government.

 

[zinfamous]

Remwmber everyone, according to Taj Republicans are being oppressed if when they come in third place they aren’t given special privileges and treated as if they came in second place instead.

It’s always funny how the guys who argue against welfare shriek about how they aren’t given enough electoral welfare.

It's also funny that he thinks gerrymandering effects the Senate vote.

It doesn't.

Also, CA is not particularly gerrymandered. The rural parts are definitely conservative, but they are out-populated by something like 20:1 in the parts of CA where people actual live. Regardless, those districts don't generally set the alarm needle for gerrymandering.

I find it funny that someone wants to bitch about anti-republican Gerrymandering in a state that somehow elected a vile pigfucker like Devin cockbreath Nunes.

 

[dphantom]

but it does equal impeachable (which doesn't require illegal or criminal...but you probably knew that, right?)

but it's great when all are true, because they are in this case. go figure

you may want to rethink the immoral = impeachable

 

[HomerJS]

but it does equal impeachable (which doesn't require illegal or criminal...but you probably knew that, right?)

but it's great when all are true, because they are in this case. go figure

PC always does the Trump-like thing and says shit not based in fact or lacking evidence. Backing up statements with evidence takes too much brain power I guess.

 

[Fenixgoon]

you may want to rethink the immoral = impeachable

while you are technically correct in than an immoral act is not necessarily impeachable, why shouldn't we hold the president to a high moral standard?

Purposeful and forceful separation of children is basically a crime against humanity, and is one of the greatest moral failings of the US in recent history.

 

[VRAMdemon]

These were my thoughts as well

I've laid them out previously in this thread, but in summary, I'm not sold on the urgent timetable this was put on.

Christmas was a completely arbitrary date and it's was completely foreseeable that new information would come out because so many threads were not fully explored.
That was Pelosi's strategy, and she'll be held accountable for it. The result in Nov will be the test.

Question is, where we go from here? Just walking away and "moving on to other business" would be another mistake. I have the feeling Pelosi wants to try and cut deals for some signed bills by Nov.

Giving Trump trade deals* (*that there House helped make better FYI!) is not what I'll be voting on in Nov.

We're in a fight for our democracy and the rule of law, and I want the only branch we have to fight like it or at least go down swinging.

Subpoena Parnas. Subpoena Bolton. Subpoena Deuche Bank. Get the fucking tax returns. Hack them and leak them if you have to, because Trump's shown that's what he'd do, will do, is doing.

Don't stop the investigations. Total war. Attack attack attack

These were my original thoughts as well. Let the alleged Deutsche bank Russian money loans for his properties come out to show Russia owns him. Allow for people who are itching to tell the truth, to do it. Subpoena these people and documents, and allow it to fester in his brain. Don't rush into impeachment. Investigate the shit out of him. "Slowly boil the frog". Now, it seems Congress has totally lost the power of impeachment with this President and very possibly future Presidents.

Now the question is : Assuming the senate votes to acquit, what effect will the entire impeachment process and trial have on Trump's future conduct? Will the increased public scrutiny and criticism of his actions have any corrective or at least preventative effect, making him less likely to risk committing similar malfeasance in the future?

Given that he made the Ukraine call the day after he proclaimed exoneration from the Mueller report, I think it’s safe to say we already know the answer. The Mueller report was released. This included Volume 1 Section 4 which was around 100 pages detailing numerous acts of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. Trump saw this, shouted, "No collusion," and immediately started seeking help and interference from a different foreign power (Ukraine) to help him win the 2020 election.

I'm assuming not much will change with his law breaking behavior. As far as I can see, Trump has never believed the rules that other people have to follow apply to him. A Senate acquittal won't tell him anything he doesn't already believe is true. Trump will always do what benefits Trump and that’s that. If Trump was feeling some threat of consequences in the event of a conviction/removal - While he certainly reacts angrily, I think that's more a generic bullying template than a considered response to circumstance. In other words, I don't think he consciously believes in the possibility that others could keep him in check. So an acquittal is vindication, a conviction is injustice... I just don't think he has the capacity to change his behavior at this point. Republicans will still let him run with acting heads of everything, in defiance of the Advise and Consent rule of the Constitution, and have put it down in black and white that ignoring all oversight from Congress is allowable, and that the base will back him regardless of how brazen he is.

You're also talking about a man who went from one failure to another, larger failure, one after another until he was $2.5 billion in debt and completely blackballed from any bank in the country. So it's entirely possible Trump will become completely unhinged and find new crimes to commit since he now feels immune from all consequences. Trump had no idea he was stepping over a line. He made the comments on a phone call with 20 people listening. He immediately released the transcript, thinking it showed him to be completely innocent. So, he probably won't make that mistake again. The next time he wants to break the law or do a questionable deal, he'll make sure nobody's listening and take more steps to hide it. Trump always tests the limits. Now there are no limits. Congress has lost the power of impeachment. He may try to use the FBI for political opposition research. He can accept more emoluments from foreign governments. He can accept election assistance from foreign governments. He can suppress the truth and bias in the media. Trump, Barr and Pompeo are now unassailable. After next week, maybe avoid 5th Ave?.

 

[mikeymikec]

Don't forget, boys and girls, it's bad if your opponents do it.

Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping Trump Tower

President Trump on Saturday claimed President Obama had his “wires tapped” in Trump Tower before Election Day, tweeting the accusation without offering evidence.“Terrible! Just found out that Obama…

thehill.com

 

[Fenixgoon]

Don't forget, boys and girls, it's bad if your opponents do it.

Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping Trump Tower

President Trump on Saturday claimed President Obama had his “wires tapped” in Trump Tower before Election Day, tweeting the accusation without offering evidence.“Terrible! Just found out that Obama…

thehill.com

2017 article...

 

[mikeymikec]

2017 article...

Yes.

 

[Sunburn74]

Da !@#$?!

Republicans are wholesale corrupt. NOTHING was going to change the outcome. NOTHING.

The only choice Pelosi had was whether to comit to the public specticale of impeachment. I'm not really sure why Democrats did it, but they did. Wish they could tell us the truth behind their actions. Probably for public record, for the world and history at large to know exactly what happened and who allowed it to happen. Hint, it isn't us. It isn't Pelosi.

The fault of this outcome is 100% on Republicans looking at an Evil SOB, and deciding that they too shall burn in the fires of hell along side him.

I don't think pelosi had a choice. They had to impeach and I don't think more witnesses closer to the president would have changed the outcome. The GOO is Trump's party now and they are clearly willing to cover up and overlook his crimes.

 

[Sunburn74]

Integrity?

/shrug

A good start would be accepting Trump's presidency instead of constantly trying, and failing, to oust him.

I know: it'll never happen. That's been made very clear.

This is classic Republican logic. Any disagreement means trying to overturn the election.

Trump I disagree with your trade policy. "Stop trying to overturn the election".

Trump you should be less racist and better behaved. "Stop trying to overturn the election".

We are like 6 months away from the next one. Let's give it a rest already with the overturning elections stuff particularly as the last one shows the will of the people is clearly not in his favor anyway.

 

[Moonbeam]

Aren't you from California? You haven't even had the opportunity to vote for a Republican for US Senate in 6/8/10 years due to the gerrymandering of the State and yet somehow it's the Republicans who are suppressing the vote ?

Yes, I am a legal resident of the State of California. California alone can't end the issue of dark money and the Supreme Court delusion that money is speech. We have eliminated the problem of political gerrymandering, as you may or may not know:

California Terminated Gerrymandering. The U.S. Supreme Court Should Too. 

www.commoncause.org

And we are on our way to destroying the Republican Party as needs to happen to save Democracy. We have insured that a Republican candidate for the Senate can't make the ballot just because they imagine their self important because of party affiliation. They actually have to have meaningful support from the people. California, with a liberal educational system and a practical deal with things that are real mentality and basically lacking the self hate engendered in the South by the loss of the Civil War, is not so full of walking brainwashed Republican automatons as other places. Here you need a substantial base to get on the ballot. I am sure, that as the Republican party dies and is replaced by reasoned conservative politicians, a non-demented conservative will be able to run for Senate. Just remember that Republican is in today's world, a form of mental illness. It is wise to protect yourself from crazy people because they are crazy. And remember that I have the greatest sympathy for people who are insane. There was a time long ago when I thought I was sane too, before I came to understand that my view of the world was upside down, inside out, and backward. Now you get to think of me as the one who is crazy.

A fact for your consideration from the world of madness I now live in:

People have sore toes, emotional issues, and they put those sore toes out in the aisle to make sure somebody will step on them.

Having been aggrieved in childhood, we unconsciously seek to relive that pain but without conscious awareness that we are unconsciously provoking it. This is the reason Republicans who thrive on their persecution complexes are seen by more normal people as huge babies. Love you. Now go suck your thumb and think about what I say. All the horrible embarrassing and humiliating truths about yourself that are so obvious to me, are only so because I already had to face them and doing so killed me. All my sacred toes abandoned as the Nothing took me. I let go and fell.

All I can tell you is that it's not the fall that kills you but the joy of realization that down is up.

 

[trenchfoot]

I don't think pelosi had a choice. They had to impeach and I don't think more witnesses closer to the president would have changed the outcome. The GOO is Trump's party now and they are clearly willing to cover up and overlook his crimes.

Which gives Trump the green light to get as much done in the nine months he has left for the people of whom he is obligated to (of which of course does not include the working class idiots who voted for and still support him) no matter if it breaks any law and moral/ethical boundaries, his party will get him off the hook. They've turned loose a monster and the only thing they will suffer from is possibly being beaten at the polls as it seems aiding and abetting a known criminal doesn't apply to a herd of totally corrupt legislators from the corrupt party of Trump.

The only question I have is when is Trump going to start mass pardoning his convicted cronies "that he doesn't really know and may have taken a picture or two with them" now that it looks like he will be acquitted.

 

[ivwshane]

These were my thoughts as well

I've laid them out previously in this thread, but in summary, I'm not sold on the urgent timetable this was put on.

Christmas was a completely arbitrary date and it's was completely foreseeable that new information would come out because so many threads were not fully explored.
That was Pelosi's strategy, and she'll be held accountable for it. The result in Nov will be the test.

Question is, where we go from here? Just walking away and "moving on to other business" would be another mistake. I have the feeling Pelosi wants to try and cut deals for some signed bills by Nov.

Giving Trump trade deals* (*that there House helped make better FYI!) is not what I'll be voting on in Nov.

We're in a fight for our democracy and the rule of law, and I want the only branch we have to fight like it or at least go down swinging.

Subpoena Parnas. Subpoena Bolton. Subpoena Deuche Bank. Get the fucking tax returns. Hack them and leak them if you have to, because Trump's shown that's what he'd do, will do, is doing.

Don't stop the investigations. Total war. Attack attack attack

First off, the reason for wanting to get this done by Christmas was so that the trial didn’t run into the primaries. Second, the reason it was hurried was because trump is/was trying to meddle in the 2020 election. Third; I don’t know what you think fighting for our democracy is if you don’t think democrats using the one tool the founders gave us isn’t it.

Lastly, there is nothing stopping the house from continuing with the investigations you mentioned. In fact I’m very confident we’ll be hearing from Bolton and Parnas very soon.

Everyone here knew and understood that an impeachment was going to result in an acquittal, the outcome wasn’t a surprise to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention. But when the president of the United States violates his oath and abuses the power of his office to pressure a foreign government to meddle in our election, they must be held accountable and that’s what the house democrats did. The fact that the senate republicans failed to hold this president accountable doesn’t change that fact. However, what it did do was to let the American people know and see just who puts party before country and now it will be up to them to not only hold the president accountable but also the republicans who were derelict in their duties.