PSU Purchasing Guide-----Revision 1.6

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CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
It can be either. It has a 20pin connecter with a special 4 pin connector that hooks on to the 20pin one and turns it into a 24pin connector.
 

anksmashpunk

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2005
24
0
0
hmm. does a 20pin with an extra 4pin connector function the same as a single 24pin connector? Im getting a DFI ultra-D and i think DFI suggests using a 24pin instead of a 20pin because 20pin can cause problems, especially when overclocking
 

CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
0
0
Yes. 20pin PS's and 24pin PS's use the same pinout for the first 20 pins, only the 24pin has 4 more pins on the end. The extra 4 pin connector is just the other 4 pins of the power connector. It can ONLY be used as the extra 4 pins, nothing else.
 

drpootums

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,315
0
0
another bump...

anyways, thanks for the extra support!

And good luck with ur modstream anksmashpunk...if ur getting it of course!
 

Nessism

Golden Member
Dec 2, 1999
1,619
1
81
Another bump for sticky.

How many newbie "which power supply should I get theads?" do we need around here????
 

drpootums

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,315
0
0
ya, that's why i made the guide Nessism (i've made a few noob threads myself...)...

Anyways, thanks for another sticky vote!
 

CHAROD06

Member
Jun 3, 2004
33
0
0
How do I know if my PSU is upgradable? Is is better to have more watts than needed or having the minimun plus little more. I used the calculator, but now I need to know how much extra to get.
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
Moderator
Oct 30, 1999
11,815
102
106
Originally posted by: CHAROD06
How do I know if my PSU is upgradable? Is is better to have more watts than needed or having the minimun plus little more. I used the calculator, but now I need to know how much extra to get.

Which calculator did you use?

If you used the Takaman calcluator and you're still asking that question, you missed the point.

Wattage isn't everything...

(from my website) All wattage is is the total capability of all of a power supply's rails. The 5V, 12V, 3.3V, -12V, -5V and 5VSB capability all added up. That total number really tells you nothing about the power supply's actual capability. And then, is that wattage continuous power or maximum peak power? There's also variables that come into play like, what was the temperature at which the testing was performed? For what period of time was the testing performed at the specified wattage? Basically, you should look at the amperage each rail is capable of and then just consider that the power supply's BEST CASE SCENARIO capability.

.....You did the calculator, so now you're here.....

Once you do this, you'll really find out how unimportant maximum wattage is, and how important the way the manufacturer distributes power across the rails is. If you have a 500W power supply with 40A available on the 5V line and you're using a Prescott with SLI video cards, you might be in trouble because the 5V line alone is using up 200W of that power supply's total power not leaving much else for other rails! Given that most power supplies give you 20 to 30A on the 3.3V (which is way high by today's standards, but even 30A on the 3.3V is only 100W) and split up about 20W for negative voltage and stand by, you're only left with 180W for the 12V rail. That's only 15A! Mind you, we're talking maximum combined peak power, but better safe than sorry, right?

All that said, fact of the matter is, if you have a power supply that has a load capability properly balance for your PC, you could actually run your machine with a quite a bit of stability with a mere 300W power supply. If you don't believe me, you might want to consider picking up a Kill A Watt. You might find that you're currently pulling about 200W from the outlet. Given that PC power supplies typically only have an efficiency of 75%, that's only 150W!!

...So.... You used the calculator. The calculator tells you how much amperage your
PC could theoretically use on EACH RAIL. Take a look at the label on your power supply. I DON'T CARE IF IT'S A 300W or 900W. Is there any overhead on any of the rails?

Here's a good example using two 500W power supplies (sorry the site is a mess. I'm in the process of migrating the reviews over to SLCentral)....

http://www.webhelp.org/jonnyguru/ultra/ultra-XC500W.htm
http://www.jonnyguru.com/raidmax/index.htm

One power supply (the Raidmax) is clearly made for 5V heavy systems, like an early socket A or a Pentium III system. It did great except for test three which made the 12V drop below +/- 5% spec.

The other power supply (the X-Connect) is made for 12V heavy systems. The 12V was actually OVER SPEC in test two when it was hit with the 5V heavy system, but actually was well within spec during test three when the 12V load was heavy instead.

So bottom line... You can use whatever "500W" power supply you want, but if the power isn't distributed appropriately for your machine across the different rails, you may see similar results (high or low voltages and the instability or overheating that it creates.)

Hope this helps.
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
Moderator
Oct 30, 1999
11,815
102
106
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
Have to disagree regarding Coolmax. Mine has been very good to me thus far. It's pretty darn quiet too...

Any time someone puts together a list like that, you know it's going to have to be full of biased. I'm no Coolmax fan. In fact, I had a "500W" fanless model actually smoke with only a 200W load, but everyone has their personal experience and I'm not going to crap on Coolmax for one bad unit.

Take for instance Raidmax being on that list up there. Maybe two years ago, but Raidmax's power supplies are now made by Topower. The RX-520XP has features that even rival other Topower power supplies like the Tagan and OCZ, yet there it is on the "power supplies to avoid" list.
 

drpootums

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,315
0
0
Yeah, if i put AVOID or GOOD manufacturer list up there, i'm just kinda going from my opinions/others opinions. Of course it's biased, there'd be no way around that. I'm just telling YOU what I'D avoid.
 

Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,508
0
0
Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
Have to disagree regarding Coolmax. Mine has been very good to me thus far. It's pretty darn quiet too...

Any time someone puts together a list like that, you know it's going to have to be full of biased. I'm no Coolmax fan. In fact, I had a "500W" fanless model actually smoke with only a 200W load, but everyone has their personal experience and I'm not going to crap on Coolmax for one bad unit.

Take for instance Raidmax being on that list up there. Maybe two years ago, but Raidmax's power supplies are now made by Topower. The RX-520XP has features that even rival other Topower power supplies like the Tagan and OCZ, yet there it is on the "power supplies to avoid" list.

Topower will builds all kinds of PSU's, some are fairly good units others are junk with serious issues. Raidmax falls into the "junk" category.
 

rise

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
9,116
46
91
seems like this will be my best bang for the $ x-clio 450 to run a 3200+, 6800gt, 1 gig, 2-3 hdd, pvr pci card, 4 fans on a controller and 2 dvd's. just wish i could find the 480 somewhere.

i find it hard tracking down what temp they test them at. this one in particular looks like 25c?
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
Moderator
Oct 30, 1999
11,815
102
106
Originally posted by: Operandi


Topower will builds all kinds of PSU's, some are fairly good units others are junk with serious issues. Raidmax falls into the "junk" category.


That is about the most ignorant statement in this entire thread.

Raidmax had some low end units that were made by Leadman a few YEARS ago, but how do you conclude that Raidmax is just "junk" Topower?

Mind you, I don't think EVERYTHING Topower makes is great. I'm sure they have a PSU for every price point, but how many Topower manufactured, Raidmax branded power supplies do YOU have any kind of experience with?
 

Operandi

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,508
0
0
Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Originally posted by: Operandi


Topower will builds all kinds of PSU's, some are fairly good units others are junk with serious issues. Raidmax falls into the "junk" category.


That is about the most ignorant statement in this entire thread.

Raidmax had some low end units that were made by Leadman a few YEARS ago, but how do you conclude that Raidmax is just "junk" Topower?

Mind you, I don't think EVERYTHING Topower makes is great. I'm sure they have a PSU for every price point, but how many Topower manufactured, Raidmax branded power supplies do YOU have any kind of experience with?

Here is a review of a Topower based Raidmax, maybe we have different definitions of "junk" but based on that review that PSU looks pretty worthless in my opinion.
 

WA261

Diamond Member
Aug 28, 2001
4,631
0
0
What would be the suggested PSU for a 80 or 130w TEC in your rig? I think mine is messed.
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
Moderator
Oct 30, 1999
11,815
102
106
Originally posted by: Operandi
Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Originally posted by: Operandi


Topower will builds all kinds of PSU's, some are fairly good units others are junk with serious issues. Raidmax falls into the "junk" category.


That is about the most ignorant statement in this entire thread.

Raidmax had some low end units that were made by Leadman a few YEARS ago, but how do you conclude that Raidmax is just "junk" Topower?

Mind you, I don't think EVERYTHING Topower makes is great. I'm sure they have a PSU for every price point, but how many Topower manufactured, Raidmax branded power supplies do YOU have any kind of experience with?

Here is a review of a Topower based Raidmax, maybe we have different definitions of "junk" but based on that review that PSU looks pretty worthless in my opinion.

Give me a break! Even their own criticism of that power supply comes with a disclaimer!!!

We doubt that the Raidmax can sustain its real rated maximum output (465W) for much longer than we allowed; the heat it produces under full load is simply not exhausted fast enough to counter the falling efficiency of overheated components. Expecting this unit to perform at its advertised rating of 520W rather than its actual rating of 465W is, in our opinion, unwise and unsafe. Of course, this is a bit of a pointless criticism, since sustained power draw anywhere near 465W is almost impossible for a desktop system.

Mind you, I ran my unit outside of a case, but it only reached 23.8C after an hour at 341W load. This is a temperature lower than Turbo-Cool 510W's 28.6C (albiet at only 489W, but still... like SilentPCReview says, who's really drawing that much power?) After power down, the Raidmax only went up to 28C. The Turbo-Cool hit 46C!

I guess we do have different definitions of "junk." So be it.

 

cm123

Senior member
Jul 3, 2003
489
2
76
One thing I know is, its almost impossible to beat PC Power & Cooling Power Supplies...

Quality is very good...
 

boborich

Member
Feb 16, 2005
154
0
0
Originally posted by: cm123
One thing I know is, its almost impossible to beat PC Power & Cooling Power Supplies...

Quality is very good...

I totally agree!:thumbsup:
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
I am stunned that you guys are even attempting to compare a Raidmax with a PCP&C. This is ludicris. You are comparing the biggest waste of metal (aside from deer PSU's) to arguably the most powerful on the market.

-Kevin
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
Moderator
Oct 30, 1999
11,815
102
106
I'm not making a direct comparison. I'm making a comparison based on the focus of Operandi's weak argument.

The PCP&C Turbo-Cool provides MORE power and more stable power, no doubt. But when it comes to heat, the PCP&C Turbo-Cool runs hotter than almost any other. That may have no effect on the PSU itself, but it can certainly have an effect on the rest of your system. The fan on a PCP&C is also very loud. I'm thinking, if you're going to have a loud fan, at least make it move some air so the PSU isn't so damn hot.

Everything is so black and white with you guys. The big picture is always such a blur. It makes me laugh actually.

"Biggest waste of metal?"

Wow. What's your address? Let me send you one.

You guys have to realize where I come from. I have seen hundreds of units come back from thousands of customers that have had hundreds and thousands of units ship out to them every day. And these hundreds and thousands of units are used in a plethora of different environments. One man's account of how something performs is such a mircro-chasm of what that product will do in another man's posession. With PC's, that's both a luxury and a curse. I can take 20 different components and come up with a hundred different possible build combinations.

I worked for one of the few online resellers that stood behind their product for a year after the purchase instead of telling the customer to pound sand and go back to the manufacturer after 30 days. So I've seen product come back in a week and I've seen it come back in a year. I know how product performs on the short term and the long term.

I've seen one motherboard last five years because it was built up in a PC that was well thought out, and I've seen the same motherboard come back after six months because it was hooked up to a cheap power supply that supplied dirty power and a lot of heat and all of the caps swelled up. I've seen CPU's last five years, and the same CPU fizzle out and burn after two days of having a particular "enthusiast" fan installed incorrectly. There's a lot of gray out there. A LOT of gray.

Now I work for a company that installs and sells components. I have to find the happy medium between quality and price. I can't put a $200 power supply in every build but on that same note, with 15% margins, I can't afford to have RMA rates higher than 2%.

If I can take a power supply that was engineered to run in a 5V heavy system and load the 12V rail 2A over the label rating for over an hour and not have temperatures exceed 23.8 and has an RMA rate of less than 1%... THAT'S GOOD.

The Internet is funny. It's full of opinions. What pisses me off is when opinions aren't based on facts. I'm quite positive that neither you or Operandi have any of these power supplies that you guys constantly put down. Call me nuts, but I invite BOTH of you to PM me your shipping address. First come first serve. I'll give one of you a Raidmax and the other an Ultra power supply and you tell me your honest opinions based on FACT. NOT because you saw ONE review that says one PSU runs hot or because another review happened to blow up a bad one (hell, I blow up Antecs, FSP's and the like all day long. You don't see me running around bitching about it.)

My mailbox is open.

Oh.. and drpootums... email me your shipping address too. I'll give you a PSU just for starting this thread.
 
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