Public Smoking Ban

[SMOKE20]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: SMOKE20
No, YOU don't underatnd....if they find reasoning to ban this, give it time and they'll find reasoning for the rest.

Again, because youre a bit dim. My choice to poison my body is MY CHOICE. YOU choose to poison my body in a PUBLIC place? NOT my choice. You should read the thread--i dont support legislation of this nature, but i understand the argument. Do you?

Yes, you are quite dim..but that's a whole different subject.

Before all of you plant yourself in favor of banning anything consider whatelse may be banned down the road to "protect the people"...........you don't want to be exposed, avoid it! Like I said, it's been that way here for awhile now and it's no big deal. One municipality tried a similar ban...........it was challenged and thrown out.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Vic
Non-smokers who go to bars are far more likely to die from the alcohol they drink there than from second-hand smoke.

That argument has been made many times, but it's not true for the service employees, such as waiters, bartenders, etc. who spend their entire work day in a closed environment with smoke from many customers. The American Lung Association says this about environmental tobacco smoke (ETS)

Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.

The Ontario Medical Association (OMA) (Canada) says in their position paper on second-hand smoke:

Restaurants and bars, which are both worksites and enclosed public places, have not been regulated in any significant manner in Ontario in order to protect non-smoking employees and non-smoking customers from second-hand smoke exposure. Recent studies indicate that levels of exposure to second-hand smoke are higher in restaurants and bars than in office workplaces or other businesses. Workers in restaurants and bars must be given the same public health protection as federal and provincial employees, especially due to the formers' increased risk of lung cancer and heart disease because of the higher level of exposure to second-hand smoke.

Deaths?

C'mon, Harv... 100k people die every year from alcohol abuse in the US alone. Surely you can link me the figures backing up these claims (and not just "positions").

 

[SMOKE20]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: SMOKE20
No, YOU don't underatnd....if they find reasoning to ban this, give it time and they'll find reasoning for the rest.

Ya, the old slippery slope. Let them ticket you for jaywalking, pretty soon they will ticket you for walking on the sidewalk. Don't be stupid, laws are made from public support for the public good. It's not a conspiracy to ban stuff randomly for fun. You like to smoke? Do it in a private place, at home like the outcast you are.

You want "smoke" bars? Fine, just don't smoke outside of it and have a fumigation room that clears the air going to the street.

LOL! whatever....just remember, it's been challenged already in a few states and municipality bans have been thrown out in several instances.

Oh, and no, never have smoked, but I also won't try to tell others how to live their lives when it comes to this, alcohol, or other things unless asked my opinion.

 

[BlancoNino]

For the record. I don't smoke and I absolutley hate the smell. Therefore I never went anywhere that allowed smoking. Wow, what an incredible choice I made!

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: SMOKE20
Oh, and no, never have smoked, but I also won't try to tell others how to live their lives when it comes to this, alcohol, or other things unless asked my opinion.

I'm not telling anyone not to smoke, I'm telling them that I don't have to breath it.

Are you against banning smoking on planes? How about birth wards in hospitals? What about at gas stations? If we start banning stuff on health reasons, they might ban everything, even Coke!

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
I think it's a great idea, I don't need to walk out of a store and get enveloped in a gagging mass of cigarette smoke. I don't need to smell it or taste it in my food either. What would you rather smell? A freshly baked pizza or acrid cigarette smoke wafting out of some dumb schmucks pie hole?

My wife is allergic to perfume. Let's outlaw that too. I think most prefumes smell like S**T and they can't be healthy for you either.

Really, what is this country coming to? Nobody cares about anybody else's rights except their own.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: SMOKE20
Yes, you are quite dim..but that's a whole different subject.

Before all of you plant yourself in favor of banning anything consider whatelse may be banned down the road to "protect the people"...........you don't want to be exposed, avoid it! Like I said, it's been that way here for awhile now and it's no big deal. One municipality tried a similar ban...........it was challenged and thrown out.

Im done with you....do you read? I know that stupid kids from OT invade P&N on ocassion, but you make all of them seem rational. Happy?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
I think it's a great idea, I don't need to walk out of a store and get enveloped in a gagging mass of cigarette smoke. I don't need to smell it or taste it in my food either. What would you rather smell? A freshly baked pizza or acrid cigarette smoke wafting out of some dumb schmucks pie hole?

My wife is allergic to perfume. Let's outlaw that too. I think most prefumes smell like S**T and they can't be healthy for you either.

Really, what is this country coming to? Nobody cares about anybody else's rights except their own.

Ya, how selfish of us to care about the health of ourselves and family. I should enjoy to have my two year old walk through walls of poisonous and addicting smoke? I'm a selfish bastard that way, I care about my offspring.

Why we are using stupid logic, maybe we should make drunk driving legal? Drinking is legal and until they hit something they have done nothing wrong...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
I think it's a great idea, I don't need to walk out of a store and get enveloped in a gagging mass of cigarette smoke. I don't need to smell it or taste it in my food either. What would you rather smell? A freshly baked pizza or acrid cigarette smoke wafting out of some dumb schmucks pie hole?

My wife is allergic to perfume. Let's outlaw that too. I think most prefumes smell like S**T and they can't be healthy for you either.

Really, what is this country coming to? Nobody cares about anybody else's rights except their own.

Ya, how selfish of us to care about the health of ourselves and family. I should enjoy to have my two year old walk through walls of poisonous and addicting smoke? I'm a selfish bastard that way, I care about my offspring.

Why we are using stupid logic, maybe we should make drunk driving legal? Drinking is legal and until they hit something they have done nothing wrong...

You take your 2 year-old into bars?


edit: I just had to point out that you were fighting slippery slope with slippery slope. It was getting just too funny for me to ignore any longer.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Sheik Yerbouti
I think it's a great idea, I don't need to walk out of a store and get enveloped in a gagging mass of cigarette smoke. I don't need to smell it or taste it in my food either. What would you rather smell? A freshly baked pizza or acrid cigarette smoke wafting out of some dumb schmucks pie hole?

My wife is allergic to perfume. Let's outlaw that too. I think most prefumes smell like S**T and they can't be healthy for you either.

Really, what is this country coming to? Nobody cares about anybody else's rights except their own.

Ya, how selfish of us to care about the health of ourselves and family. I should enjoy to have my two year old walk through walls of poisonous and addicting smoke? I'm a selfish bastard that way, I care about my offspring.

Why we are using stupid logic, maybe we should make drunk driving legal? Drinking is legal and until they hit something they have done nothing wrong...

If you don't like smoke, then don't go somewhere where they smoke. You can avoid it. I'm not saying the the owner of an establishment can't ban smoking if he chooses, I'm saying that he should be able to allow it if he likes. It's a free country, or is supposed to be.

It's not the same comparing smoking to drunk drivers. You can't avoid them on the public roadways and they are dangerous. I think your the one with the "stupid logic".

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Vic
You take your 2 year-old into bars?

edit: I just had to point out that you were fighting slippery slope with slippery slope. It was getting just too funny for me to ignore any longer.

Im sure he doesnt. BUT i bet he takes his 2-year old into restaurants. Since when was the ban restricted to "bars?" Restaurants have "bars" ya know? Since you didnt read the post title: Public Smoking Ban

Again, i dont support the ban, but i understand the argument. Also, your grammar could use some work.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
[If you don't like smoke, then don't go somewhere where they smoke. You can avoid it. I'm not saying the the owner of an establishment can't ban smoking if he chooses, I'm saying that he should be able to allow it if he likes. It's a free country, or is supposed to be.

It's not the same comparing smoking to drunk drivers. You can't avoid them on the public roadways and they are dangerous. I think your the one with the "stupid logic".

Smoking is legal on the sidewalks, do I have to cross the street? I'm talking about smoking in general, not in some particular business. So again, how do I avoid smokers like drunk drivers? Why should I have to avoid either?

Smoke is harmful, you have no right to harm others with a bad habit.

 

[alchemize]

I hate cigarette smoke. But I also smoke cigars (outside, never around my kids).

I think it's reasonable to ban it everywhere except bars, *or* create ventilation requirements for anywhere that permits smoking. If I want to smoke a cigar, I go to a bar, or I go on my porch. It would be rude for me to do it anywhere else.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I hate cigarette smoke. But I also smoke cigars (outside, never around my kids).

I think it's reasonable to ban it everywhere except bars, *or* create ventilation requirements for anywhere that permits smoking. If I want to smoke a cigar, I go to a bar, or I go on my porch. It would be rude for me to do it anywhere else.

At least someone gets it. I agree. I've smoked a cigar, but I would not presume to make the general public inhale it. I guess I'm not rude that way.

 

[Vic]

The experiment of voluntary non-smoking bars and taverns has proven extremely successful in Oregon. We have the largest chain of non-smoking drinking establishments in the country, McMenamins, which has proven to be wildly successful, and bar after bar is following suit.

I know that the authoritarians will never believe it, but there is no need to pass a law for every little thing.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: alchemize
I hate cigarette smoke. But I also smoke cigars (outside, never around my kids).

I think it's reasonable to ban it everywhere except bars, *or* create ventilation requirements for anywhere that permits smoking. If I want to smoke a cigar, I go to a bar, or I go on my porch. It would be rude for me to do it anywhere else.

At least someone gets it. I agree. I've smoked a cigar, but I would not presume to make the general public inhale it. I guess I'm not rude that way.

Do you drive a car? Think those emissions are healthy? Look at LA. You should be forbidden to operate a car except within your own home. You've got no right to make me breathe those pollutants.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Vic
You take your 2 year-old into bars?

edit: I just had to point out that you were fighting slippery slope with slippery slope. It was getting just too funny for me to ignore any longer.

Im sure he doesnt. BUT i bet he takes his 2-year old into restaurants. Since when was the ban restricted to "bars?" Restaurants have "bars" ya know? Since you didnt read the post title: Public Smoking Ban

Again, i dont support the ban, but i understand the argument. Also, your grammar could use some work.

The Washington state law, O unemployed doctorate, which is the subject of this thread, is in regards to drinking establishments only. Perhaps you might study the subject at hand? Also, your use of proper punctuation and capitalization could use some work. :roll:

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
[If you don't like smoke, then don't go somewhere where they smoke. You can avoid it. I'm not saying the the owner of an establishment can't ban smoking if he chooses, I'm saying that he should be able to allow it if he likes. It's a free country, or is supposed to be.

It's not the same comparing smoking to drunk drivers. You can't avoid them on the public roadways and they are dangerous. I think your the one with the "stupid logic".

Smoking is legal on the sidewalks, do I have to cross the street? I'm talking about smoking in general, not in some particular business. So again, how do I avoid smokers like drunk drivers? Why should I have to avoid either?

Smoke is harmful, you have no right to harm others with a bad habit.

Oh BS, prove that walking by a smoker on an outdoor sidewalk harms you in anyway what so ever. You can't and you know it. Just more stupid logic.

If a resteraunt cooks with real butter instead of olive oil, Thery're harming your health. I guess we better pass a law against that too, because by God you have rights!!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: alchemize
I hate cigarette smoke. But I also smoke cigars (outside, never around my kids).

I think it's reasonable to ban it everywhere except bars, *or* create ventilation requirements for anywhere that permits smoking. If I want to smoke a cigar, I go to a bar, or I go on my porch. It would be rude for me to do it anywhere else.

Which is the point of this thread. The Washington state law bans smoking in bars and taverns. That was the entire point of the law. Smoking was already banned in every other public place in WA state prior to this law. If you go to Seattle, and want to smoke a cigar, you are not going to be doing it in a bar, not even within 25 feet of the freakin' door.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: SMOKE20

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Todd33
Ban it. Smokers should be free to kill themselves in their homes and no where else. You have no rights to poison others.

:thumbsup:

Coca Cola is bad for you, so is coffee, the preservatives in most foods cause cancer, alcohol is definately bad............where shall it stop then?

You don't force somebody else to drink Coca Cola or coffee when you choose to do so unlike when you smoke in an enclosed space that is shared with other people. People around a smoker can't just hold their breath because that person decides to light up. Second-hand smoke is pervasive and invasive. Coke and coffee and alcohol are not.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Vic
The Washington state law, O unemployed doctorate, which is the subject of this thread, is in regards to drinking establishments only. Perhaps you might study the subject at hand? Also, your use of proper punctuation and capitalization could use some work. :roll:

Roll all you want. Here is a quote from the OP:

"Washington, 8 December 2005 banned in all workplaces, including bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, and non-tribal casinos. Also bans smoking while standing within 25 feet of a door or window that can open. Currently it is the strictest smoking ban by state in the country."

Now, what was that you said? I see "workplaces, including bars, restaurants, bowling alleys, and non-tribal casinos" in the OP. Where do you get "drinking establishments only?" Please share, oh wise dumba$$ (i included this because youre wrong and you insulted me first).

 

[SMOKE20]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: SMOKE20
Yes, you are quite dim..but that's a whole different subject.

Before all of you plant yourself in favor of banning anything consider whatelse may be banned down the road to "protect the people"...........you don't want to be exposed, avoid it! Like I said, it's been that way here for awhile now and it's no big deal. One municipality tried a similar ban...........it was challenged and thrown out.

Im done with you....do you read? I know that stupid kids from OT invade P&N on ocassion, but you make all of them seem rational. Happy?

You're done because you have no legit argument and that's the bottom line. You have 50X better chance of dieing in a vehicle......so ban driving.

It should be a CHOICE of the business not an ordinance or law. If a city wishes to ban it in their buildings or on their land, fine, but can you not comprehend that government banning is not good on any level?

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: alchemize
I hate cigarette smoke. But I also smoke cigars (outside, never around my kids).

I think it's reasonable to ban it everywhere except bars, *or* create ventilation requirements for anywhere that permits smoking. If I want to smoke a cigar, I go to a bar, or I go on my porch. It would be rude for me to do it anywhere else.

Which is the point of this thread. The Washington state law bans smoking in bars and taverns. That was the entire point of the law. Smoking was already banned in every other public place in WA state prior to this law. If you go to Seattle, and want to smoke a cigar, you are not going to be doing it in a bar, not even within 25 feet of the freakin' door.

Again read the OP. You look pretty foolish now, eh?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: alchemize
I hate cigarette smoke. But I also smoke cigars (outside, never around my kids).

I think it's reasonable to ban it everywhere except bars, *or* create ventilation requirements for anywhere that permits smoking. If I want to smoke a cigar, I go to a bar, or I go on my porch. It would be rude for me to do it anywhere else.

Which is the point of this thread. The Washington state law bans smoking in bars and taverns. That was the entire point of the law. Smoking was already banned in every other public place in WA state prior to this law. If you go to Seattle, and want to smoke a cigar, you are not going to be doing it in a bar, not even within 25 feet of the freakin' door.

I definitely disagree with the WA law banning smoking in bars and taverns. I believe NYC has a similar law?

I always hated smelling like smoke leaving a bar. But I knew what I was getting into. Now I get vengence with REALLY smelly smoke (smells wonderful to me - compared to that crap they call tobacco in cigs).

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: SMOKE20

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Todd33
Ban it. Smokers should be free to kill themselves in their homes and no where else. You have no rights to poison others.

:thumbsup:

Coca Cola is bad for you, so is coffee, the preservatives in most foods cause cancer, alcohol is definately bad............where shall it stop then?

No one is forcing coffee, coca-cola, food preservatives, or alcohol down my throat. Smoke on the other hand...