Purolator sucks

[Jimzz]

Spatial,
The end caps are not "cardboard", it is an engineered fiber. Today, Mann makes a identicle filter for the Bentley Arnage, a 400k vehicle. Honda, Subaru and Nissan all use the same technology as OE. New Toyota spin on filters have no end cap at all, just the ends of the pleats glued together.
GM AC Delco filters use a felt end cap, guess up against WIX, all those companies just do not know anything about filters? The FRAM Ultra has steel end caps because it is the only way to capture the metal screen backing. And, if your serious, I will pay all expenses for you to visit our engineering lab and see how oil filters are tested in the ISO test. All you need to do is email your contact info to jay.buckley@framgrp.com. You are under no obligation other than bringing an open mind.:biggrin:

"engineered fiber" :awe: You do know cardboard is also engineered fiber as well right?

 

[BoomerD]

Aware,
I am the tech manager at FRAM. You should actually spend some time doing reseach. The study you are quoting was revised considerably after the owner of that forum visited our engineering lab. While his study was pretty awesome for something done at home, we showed it has no corelation to real world filter test results. Cutting open filters and commenting is not an oil filter test. Engine longevity and oil test results are. The ISO-4548-12 test is the only OE accepted oil filter test and all reputable oil filter companies post ISO 4548-12 test results. We have another lab visit coming up on May 7th, would you care to join us? My treat.:biggrin:

Make up your mind...are you the tech manager for Fram...or Prestone?

Good Morning Howard,
I am the technical manager at Prestone. We make dex-cool for GM and many other automakers. Whenever you see a licensed dex-cool product (meaning it has the GM logo on the bottle) it meets or exceeds all GM ASTM specs for dex-cool. Despite bad publicity, dex-cool has emerged as the very best cooling system technology. Even Ford and Chrysler are adopting it use in 2011. Many european manufacturers have already switched over. Good luck with your coolant change and if you need any help or instructions let me know at jay.buckley@honeywell.com

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Spatial,
The end caps are not "cardboard", it is an engineered fiber. Today, Mann makes a identicle filter for the Bentley Arnage, a 400k vehicle. Honda, Subaru and Nissan all use the same technology as OE. New Toyota spin on filters have no end cap at all, just the ends of the pleats glued together.
GM AC Delco filters use a felt end cap, guess up against WIX, all those companies just do not know anything about filters? The FRAM Ultra has steel end caps because it is the only way to capture the metal screen backing. And, if your serious, I will pay all expenses for you to visit our engineering lab and see how oil filters are tested in the ISO test. All you need to do is email your contact info to jay.buckley@framgrp.com. You are under no obligation other than bringing an open mind.:biggrin:

Engineered fiber.... To me, as the average technical person with easy access to information (dangerous!), is just a ridiculous marketing term for cardboard.

And, as the average technical person, I can envision how glued together pleats are better from a design perspective compared to a cardboard endcap. I am also not surprised that ac delco does not spec a good quality filter either.

I'm not neccesarily saying that the top of the line fram is still a terrible filter, I have heard that you all have improved that design, it's the 'regular joe' filters that apparently have the same weak/failure prone anti drainback valves and cardboard (sorry engineered fiber......) end caps.


Come back to me when you can do side by side comparisons with bosch, purolator, wix, and still 'compete'. Because right now, I don't believe that is the case.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Make up your mind...are you the tech manager for Fram...or Prestone?

I have a feeling that he works for some general marketing company that probably focuses on online opinions..... IE he's paid to go on forums and try to downplay/dispel false information.

 

[Jimzz]

Seems motorking hits a lot of forums if any one says anything bad about fram. Search his screen name and fram and a lot of hits come up.

I have a feeling that he works for some general marketing company that probably focuses on online opinions..... IE he's paid to go on forums and try to downplay/dispel false information.

Yep Prestone and Fram = the same company. And basic search also shows him hitting any anti-fram postings every where.

 

[DrPizza]

It's not just a personal opinion. Fram makes terrible filters. Go read up on the studies before giving more false advice on our forums.

In general you could stand to do some research before giving your opinion on any topic.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html

Did you even read your own site & look at their data?
"The best performing oil filter media provides a cleaner testing filter paper."http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilter/comparison.html
The top 3 or 4 are easily the best. The last 10 are easily the worst. The ones in between - there's really not much of a difference.

In order from best to worst of 31 tested, and, there's a lot of objectivity to this from the author of that study:
Best:
Royal Purple
Amsoil
Fram (Wait?! What?! That study had a Fram filter as the 3rd best??!)
Mobil 1
K&N
Purolator
Mann
Fram (Another one near the top?!)
Fram (And another one?!)
Microgard
Fram (And another one)
Napa
Pronto
Napa
Bosch
Fleetguard
Fram
Wix
Fram
Luberfiner
Fram
Purolator
Motorcraft
Fram
Proline
Premium Guard
Carquest
Full
Baldwin
STP
Shell
ACDelco

So, disregarding the valve thing that you claim is an issue, all you've done is blindly picked a study that shows (at least to me) that there's nothing wrong with a Fram filter.

My anecdotal evidence: my 2nd vehicle is older than about 99% of the people registered here. It has a Fram PH8A on it.

 

[DrPizza]

I drive a used M3, I use only $300 Oil Filters and $50 qt. Oil.
$600 oil changes, FTW.

Just a for what it's worth, but last year, the oil I had put into my lower unit (I/O) was around $40-50 per quart.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Did you even read your own site & look at their data?
<snip>



So, disregarding the valve thing that you claim is an issue, all you've done is blindly picked a study that shows (at least to me) that there's nothing wrong with a Fram filter.

My anecdotal evidence: my 2nd vehicle is older than about 99% of the people registered here. It has a Fram PH8A on it.

Absolutely, and they show that fram is still using cheap anti drain back valves and cardboard end caps.

If an oil filter failure rate is, let's say 5%, you will never personally notice a problem. Even if you have a failed filter it appears fine from the outside, so might never even know.

This is why it's critical to buy a "known good" oil filter..... It's different from tire or brake failure, where you immediately know there's a problem.

 

[Jimzz]

^
My FIRST ever oil change I ever did I used fram as I saw all the ads and such. Thing failed and collapsed. Just enough oil was getting by to keep the engine alive. Had my mechanic at the time look at it and before even lifting just asked &#8220;let me guess, you used a fram filter didn&#8217;t ya.&#8221;. He cut it open, use to race cars so he still had a cool cutting tool just for oil filters, and it was a mess inside.

Never used fram again after that and after learning how to work on cars and becoming an ASE mechanic myself I always tell others to not use them to this day. Just about every engine noise on cold starts on jeeps and other side/angled filters was due to a fram and their low quality drain back valves.

 

[OutHouse]

Aware,
I am the tech manager at FRAM. You should actually spend some time doing reseach. The study you are quoting was revised considerably after the owner of that forum visited our engineering lab. While his study was pretty awesome for something done at home, we showed it has no corelation to real world filter test results. Cutting open filters and commenting is not an oil filter test. Engine longevity and oil test results are. The ISO-4548-12 test is the only OE accepted oil filter test and all reputable oil filter companies post ISO 4548-12 test results. We have another lab visit coming up on May 7th, would you care to join us? My treat.:biggrin:

lol this is an epic thread now.

 

[Jimzz]

lol this is an epic thread now.

At least he comes back when people ask questions.
The K&N air filter PR people just run and never come back. :hmm:

 

[OutHouse]

^
My FIRST ever oil change I ever did I used fram as I saw all the ads and such. Thing failed and collapsed. Just enough oil was getting by to keep the engine alive. Had my mechanic at the time look at it and before even lifting just asked “let me guess, you used a fram filter didn’t ya.”. He cut it open, use to race cars so he still had a cool cutting tool just for oil filters, and it was a mess inside.

Never used fram again after that and after learning how to work on cars and becoming an ASE mechanic myself I always tell others to not use them to this day. Just about every engine noise on cold starts on jeeps and other side/angled filters was due to a fram and their low quality drain back valves.

how was the collapsed filter starving your engine of oil?

 

[Jimzz]

how was the collapsed filter starving your engine of oil?

The media collapsed in and the top was covering some of the passages in the filter. If you looked down it was nearly closed and the pressure was off.

Like an idiot I drove it like that and my mechanic was close. New filter on and everything was fine. Never had another ol filter issue for the 60k on that motor or the 20k I put on the next.

 

[7window]

^
My FIRST ever oil change I ever did I used fram as I saw all the ads and such. Thing failed and collapsed. Just enough oil was getting by to keep the engine alive. Had my mechanic at the time look at it and before even lifting just asked “let me guess, you used a fram filter didn’t ya.”. He cut it open, use to race cars so he still had a cool cutting tool just for oil filters, and it was a mess inside.

Never used fram again after that and after learning how to work on cars and becoming an ASE mechanic myself I always tell others to not use them to this day. Just about every engine noise on cold starts on jeeps and other side/angled filters was due to a fram and their low quality drain back valves.

I used fram on my nissan for the first 100k out of ignorance. Switched to purolator after that. The car ran another 100k before I got rid of it. The motor was fine but I blew a head gasket and didn't feel like throwing money at the car.

 

[foghorn67]

My old 289 destroyed the innards of a PH8A.
Never bought one since.
Not sure why they cheaped out on materials.
Saying that others have followed suit says nothing reassuring.
It's a common trend to "race to the bottom."
Just spend a few extra bucks and get something you know is better.
Save the cheap skates for those that manage fleets.

 

[vshah]

here's the oem subaru filter from the last change on my wife's car. i believe these are made by fram/honeywell now.

 

[Tommy2000GT]

here's the oem subaru filter from the last change on my wife's car. i believe these are made by fram/honeywell now.

I bought a couple OEM Subaru filters because they were on sale at the dealer. They say Honeywell on them. If they are garbage like that , I may just give them away.

 

[Howard]

It's not just a personal opinion. Fram makes terrible filters. Go read up on the studies before giving more false advice on our forums.

In general you could stand to do some research before giving your opinion on any topic.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html

Not a bad study, but it still can't be used as a reference.

1) What is the total filtration capacity of each filter in terms of mass of retained particulate?
2) What is the expected operating life (at at least one confidence level) of each filter, given the assumption that the medium does not get saturated?
3) What is the effectiveness of retention for different particle sizes vs different particle sizes vs mass of retained particulate?
4) What is the pressure drop vs mass of retained particulate vs different particle sizes?
5) What particle sizes can an engine tolerate in its oil without a significant reduction in operating lifetime for any component? (for discussion and procedural optimization)

If a study can answer these questions then certainly it would be a milestone in end-user research.

Really though, as long as a filter doesn't fail mechanically then it probably is good enough.

 

[fstime]

"It works" isn't validation that they're good.

Basically, there are better products out there. Purolator is one of them. From dissected filters, to oil analysis, to whatever, Fram are consistently found to be among the worst of the field.

Purolator, from my perspective, appear to be the best in terms of both price and performance. They always grade out well, and are a few cents more than a cheapy Fram.

Let me tell you guys something, the entire "motor oil enthusiast" community is a fucking scam.

Yes, I am talking about you, who goes and reads people's worthless opinions on Bob Is the Oil Guy forums.

It's not that complicated, change the oil and oil filter at the required interval with the correctly spec'd oil and filter.

Unless you are a moron and don't do that, your engine will not fail because you used X oil filters rather than Y oil fiters or because you used Penzoil Platinum and not Mobil 1.

 

[BUTCH1]

Let me tell you guys something, the entire "motor oil enthusiast" community is a fucking scam.

Yes, I am talking about you, who goes and reads people's worthless opinions on Bob Is the Oil Guy forums.

It's not that complicated, change the oil and oil filter at the required interval with the correctly spec'd oil and filter.

Unless you are a moron and don't do that, your engine will not fail because you used X oil filters rather than Y oil fiters or because you used Penzoil Platinum and not Mobil 1.

This, just make sure the oil you use has the SAE rating you car's maker specs and the proper viscosity. I just did an oil change, used Wal-mart brand 100% synthetic, it was the same price as dino Castro, Valvoline, ect..

 

[Red Squirrel]

Never had issues with Purolator. In fact the ladies at the local Purolator office know me by name now and even hold packages for me and call me when they're in. Guess it's a sign I order too much stuff lol.

Also if you order from the states it's probably UPS, then it goes to Purolator once it gets here. Since they can't pee on your lawn it's possible they pee on your package.

 

[mmntech]

My parents used Purolator for their business for 15 years without an issue. They'd be late picking up occasionally but were always pretty quick with delivery.

UPS is probably the worst courier. Guy I know who runs a hobby shop used to use them. One too many damaged shipments later and he switched to FedEx.

 

[motorking]

"engineered fiber" :awe: You do know cardboard is also engineered fiber as well right?

And I assume you do know that all filter media is engineered fiber as well correct? What is your point?

 

[motorking]

I bought a couple OEM Subaru filters because they were on sale at the dealer. They say Honeywell on them. If they are garbage like that , I may just give them away.

Gee Tommy, How did that happen? Subaru has no issues with using our filters and yett you seem to have destroyed one, guess you know more than the subie engineers or your car is somehow different?

 

[Jimzz]

And I assume you do know that all filter media is engineered fiber as well correct? What is your point?

End caps are supposed to seal, the filter media is not. You do know that right? That and the drain back valve usually sits on the end cap so cardboard does not work to well for that, esp on frams.

Why the crappy drain back valves that cause start up noise in fram filters that has gone on so long those first thing people do is look to make sure the car does not have a fram filter?

Why so many recalls of the "high end" racing filters?