Purolator sucks

[motorking]

The media collapsed in and the top was covering some of the passages in the filter. If you looked down it was nearly closed and the pressure was off.

Like an idiot I drove it like that and my mechanic was close. New filter on and everything was fine. Never had another ol filter issue for the 60k on that motor or the 20k I put on the next.

Really? what kind of engine? Was it a GM? What was your mechanics explanation for why the bypass valve stuck? Because to collapes a filter, it must be full of dirt to capacity and the bypass must be stuck closed. Sounds like poor maintenance, not a bad filter

 

[Jimzz]

Gee Tommy, How did that happen? Subaru has no issues with using our filters and yett you seem to have destroyed one, guess you know more than the subie engineers or your car is somehow different?

Then why is fram recalling their Subaru oil filters?

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/fram-oil-filter-recall-subaru-blue-filters-128149/


:whiste:

 

[motorking]

Make up your mind...are you the tech manager for Fram...or Prestone?

Boomer,
I am the technical manager at FRAM, Prestone and Autolite. I am also a 33 yr ASE master technician with my own shop and a international reputation as a automotive teacher. I have over 400 published articles, teach auto techs all over the world, member of SAE, IATN, ASA and many other automotive professional associations. So, let's see your resume before you throw stones.:biggrin:

 

[Jimzz]

Really? what kind of engine? Was it a GM? What was your mechanics explanation for why the bypass valve stuck? Because to collapes a filter, it must be full of dirt to capacity and the bypass must be stuck closed. Sounds like poor maintenance, not a bad filter

The filter was brand new actually. But hey why let facts get in the way of a fram PR stunt.


So how's all the Fram recalls going?

 

[motorking]

Incorrect..... Car manufacturers do not, as far as I'm aware, have any sort of regulation on filters.

They may on their OEM stuff, but they have no control over media type, density, flow rates, that sort of thing of no name filters.

There just isn't an industry standard, evidenced by the HUGE variation amongst the different filter brands.

They most certainly do. The ISO-4548-12 test. Look it up on the Oil Filters Manufacturers website. This is the test all OE's use for filter evaluation.

 

[motorking]

I have a feeling that he works for some general marketing company that probably focuses on online opinions..... IE he's paid to go on forums and try to downplay/dispel false information.

Wow, how did you become such an expert on everything? You sure do not spend anytime researching what your talking about. Look me up, you know my name. Yes, I am a master tech for 33 yrs who gets paid by my company to teach technicians, forum posters, parts guys and others about cars. My shop of 25 years is called MotorKing Garage aka Motorking Automotive, look it up. Been ASE certified master tech for 33 yrs. Work on cars every day, write articles for trade and consumer auto publications, spend 10-15 hrs a week in forums offering free information on how to repair your car, send out free parts, give out my cell number if you have problems and only give out accurate, engineering based information in the process.
How on earth does that make me a bad guy. Please take us up on the lab visit, you will then have the credentials to comment on oil and air filtration as a trained expert. What do you have to lose? the trip will be 3-4 guys from forums, some auto magazine writers and several techs/shop owners. You may, actually learn something. So, if your done with the personal attacks and want the engineering background on filtration I am offering, please just send me your contact info.

 

[motorking]

The filter was brand new actually. But hey why let facts get in the way of a fram PR stunt.

Sure it was. Brand new and it just suddenly collapsed? OK I call BS


So how's all the Fram recalls going?

You mean the one recall? We made about 100 subie oil filters with the wrong o ring, recalled and found them all, that is what responsible companies do.

 

[Red Squirrel]

lol how did a thread about a shipping company turn into an argument about oil filters? This places jarrs me out sometimes. :awe:

 

[motorking]

Then why is fram recalling their Subaru oil filters?

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f88/fram-oil-filter-recall-subaru-blue-filters-128149/


:whiste:

Because we made about 100 with the wrong o ring and they could leak. Subie oil filters use a "P" style o ring, they are tightened until the metal can contacts the block. In the process of moving production from canada to usa, we did make 100 bad ones and recalled every single one, that is what responsible companies do.

 

[Jimzz]

Because we made about 100 with the wrong o ring and they could leak. Subie oil filters use a "P" style o ring, they are tightened until the metal can contacts the block. In the process of moving production from canada to usa, we did make 100 bad ones and recalled every single one, that is what responsible companies do.

So you call someone out saying Sub fram is great and the user is wrong. And now are trying to explain off a recall on the exact same filter.

Sounds like some good "engineered" designs there. :awe:


Heck I see Fram even had to recall fuel filters now as well. Thought the air and fuel filter lines at fram were ok; guess not.
http://fram.com/sites/default/f/uploads/en/framfuelrecall_0.pdf

 

[Jimzz]

You mean the one recall? We made about 100 subie oil filters with the wrong o ring, recalled and found them all, that is what responsible companies do.

Fram has had a lot more recalls than just the Sub one. But hey lets ignore the others and hope people forget as well.


Now why is it that the drain back valve on fram filters seems to never work? You have skipped that question so far.

 

[Colt45]

Most Mann oil filters in the US are just US Purolator's with a Mann sticker.


:whiste:

The ones I have say Germany or Austria on them. That could be because I have kraut cars though, I'd imagine ones they make/source for US models would be more likely to be rebadged American stuff.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Not a bad study, but it still can't be used as a reference.

1) What is the total filtration capacity of each filter in terms of mass of retained particulate?
2) What is the expected operating life (at at least one confidence level) of each filter, given the assumption that the medium does not get saturated?
3) What is the effectiveness of retention for different particle sizes vs different particle sizes vs mass of retained particulate?
4) What is the pressure drop vs mass of retained particulate vs different particle sizes?
5) What particle sizes can an engine tolerate in its oil without a significant reduction in operating lifetime for any component? (for discussion and procedural optimization)

If a study can answer these questions then certainly it would be a milestone in end-user research.

Really though, as long as a filter doesn't fail mechanically then it probably is good enough.

Honestly, I am not that worried about minor flow rate differences nor variances in particle size filtration. With any pleated/paper media filter it really isn't something to be concerned about. And I generally do not even read the filtration aspects of these studies.


What I DO worry about, is faulty anti drainback valves and failing cardboard endcaps, both are 'mechanical failures' fram is WELL known for. These things are nearly impossible to see from outside the filter, and you won't know it did damage until later on down the road.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Wow, how did you become such an expert on everything? You sure do not spend anytime researching what your talking about. Look me up, you know my name. Yes, I am a master tech for 33 yrs who gets paid by my company to teach technicians, forum posters, parts guys and others about cars. My shop of 25 years is called MotorKing Garage aka Motorking Automotive, look it up. Been ASE certified master tech for 33 yrs. Work on cars every day, write articles for trade and consumer auto publications, spend 10-15 hrs a week in forums offering free information on how to repair your car, send out free parts, give out my cell number if you have problems and only give out accurate, engineering based information in the process.
How on earth does that make me a bad guy. Please take us up on the lab visit, you will then have the credentials to comment on oil and air filtration as a trained expert. What do you have to lose? the trip will be 3-4 guys from forums, some auto magazine writers and several techs/shop owners. You may, actually learn something. So, if your done with the personal attacks and want the engineering background on filtration I am offering, please just send me your contact info.

First of all, your little tirade is completely off base and unprofessional. Just because you're a fram shill does not make you a bad guy, and I did not say as such. As a matter of fact, I think it's good that fram is paying someone to help (try) and clear the air of fram's history.

I don't know which forums you usually participate in, but we are a highly technical group here. I suggest you stop the resume comparing or you just might end up embarrassed. Nowhere have I portrayed myself to be any expert, I actually specifically said that I've cut open filters and looked at other filter cutaways with a critical and technical eye. I also have kept a close watch on filter failures, and the VAST majority of the time it's a fram.

That certainly does not make me an expert, but I can come to an educated opinon on the subject. And as of now, my educated opinion is that fram still makes shoddy anti drainback valves and uses cardboard end caps. And, I will not spend $3.50 on a filter with cardboard end caps when I can spend $4.25 and get a good quality purolater.


If I had any free time right now or if you were local I truly would take you up on your offer. We have a number of other highly technical garage members, maybe someone else can go.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

They most certainly do. The ISO-4548-12 test. Look it up on the Oil Filters Manufacturers website. This is the test all OE's use for filter evaluation.

....That's not what I was saying.


Nothing stops me, Mr Joe Schmoe, from making a run of Joe Schmoe filters and selling them. There is no legal authority or even watchdog group or makes sure oil filters are manufactured to any specification.

The manufacturers might use that test on their OEM filters, but nothing stops you from going to a parts store and buying the $1.99 joe schmoe untested filter with brittle non functional anti drainback valves, mis-sized o rings, and cardboard end caps.



Futhermore, the ISO test clearly doesn't regulate your anti drainback valves or shoddy cardboard end caps, so it's really not of much value for my purposes.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Because we made about 100 with the wrong o ring and they could leak. Subie oil filters use a "P" style o ring, they are tightened until the metal can contacts the block. In the process of moving production from canada to usa, we did make 100 bad ones and recalled every single one, that is what responsible companies do.

Only 100 filters were involved in the subaru recall? You really want to put your name on that?

The filters involved were manufactured over a 3 month timeframe on the assembly line. I find it very VERY surprising that fram runs a production line of 10-15 filters at a time.

 

[bigi]

Purolator screwed me twice in one week. They're 2 for 2.

That is all.

FU

 

[motorking]

Only 100 filters were involved in the subaru recall? You really want to put your name on that?

The filters involved were manufactured over a 3 month timeframe on the assembly line. I find it very VERY surprising that fram runs a production line of 10-15 filters at a time.

You win, I surrender to you superior intellect. Have a great day

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Thank you, you too. We do appreciate your insight on the forums.

 

[Howard]

You win, I surrender to you superior intellect. Have a great day

Well, I guess we've all come to the conclusion that Fram has piss-poor engineering.

 

[jupiter57]

You win, I surrender to you superior intellect. Have a great day

Well, I guess we've all come to the conclusion that Fram has piss-poor engineering.

Yes, but 95+ posts & we still never found out just how Purolator, the Shipping Co., screwed the OP!

 

[WackyDan]

Well, I guess we've all come to the conclusion that Fram has piss-poor engineering.

Uhm no. Just concluded that pissing contests on the internet are pretty useless.

 

[Jimzz]

You win, I surrender to you superior intellect. Have a great day

Looking at other forums this seems to be your MO. You come in and make claims, others ask you to back them up, you get mad,then get snarky, and don't come back. This seems to go back as far as 2009 for you from what I have found.


You know this is not helping frams image by doing this right? You look worse than the K&N people that try and kill any negative information about them.

 

[Soundmanred]

Wow, how did you become such an expert on everything? You sure do not spend anytime researching what your talking about. Look me up, you know my name. Yes, I am a master tech for 33 yrs who gets paid by my company to teach technicians, forum posters, parts guys and others about cars. My shop of 25 years is called MotorKing Garage aka Motorking Automotive, look it up. Been ASE certified master tech for 33 yrs. Work on cars every day, write articles for trade and consumer auto publications, spend 10-15 hrs a week in forums offering free information on how to repair your car, send out free parts, give out my cell number if you have problems and only give out accurate, engineering based information in the process.
How on earth does that make me a bad guy. Please take us up on the lab visit, you will then have the credentials to comment on oil and air filtration as a trained expert. What do you have to lose? the trip will be 3-4 guys from forums, some auto magazine writers and several techs/shop owners. You may, actually learn something. So, if your done with the personal attacks and want the engineering background on filtration I am offering, please just send me your contact info.

Do you really think I believe you? I am not that stupid.

I am a expert on oil and air filtration.

 

[Tommy2000GT]

Gee Tommy, How did that happen? Subaru has no issues with using our filters and yett you seem to have destroyed one, guess you know more than the subie engineers or your car is somehow different?

that was not me. i was replying to vshah who was the one who had a destroyed filter. I have some Subaru Honeywell filters but I haven't used them yet.