Purpose of crying

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Diomedes
In reply to jerryjg, you say that there is no survival of the fittest, but there is a elimination of the unfit, surely this is exacly the same thing.

No, not really. The difference is that anything which does not prevent you from breeding doesn't really have any bearing on the survival of said trait.

Particularly with humans, the bar of non-survivable is set pretty low, and has been for some time - it's not surivial of the fittest, but survival of the 'fit enough'.

 

[EightySix Four]

Alright. What are the biological benfits of crying? Not the tears that keep your eyes watered, but the tears that come when you have an extremely emotional situation.

 

[Gibsons]

One problem is I don't think we know everything there is to know about tears. Sure they keep the eye wet, and they contain some antibodies... but there's other proteins and probably carbohydrates, maybe lipids. How this could be of benefit while watching Ole Yeller, I don't know.

 

[Jeff7]

Kind of along the lines of laughter. What purpose do loud, interrupted bursts of vocalization have, when they are only really slightly different from crying? You even tear up sometimes when crying. Extreme emotion, toward any end of the spectrum can cause tearing. What purpose I don't know. I notice that a sudden increase in heartrate can sometimes increase tear production.
Necessary benefit, I don't know. Tearing might simply be a side effect brought on during evolution - one that never really got any ancestors killed off early on, so it never went away.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
Kind of along the lines of laughter. What purpose do loud, interrupted bursts of vocalization have, when they are only really slightly different from crying? You even tear up sometimes when crying. Extreme emotion, toward any end of the spectrum can cause tearing. What purpose I don't know. I notice that a sudden increase in heartrate can sometimes increase tear production.
Necessary benefit, I don't know. Tearing might simply be a side effect brought on during evolution - one that never really got any ancestors killed off early on, so it never went away.

Tears in general have at least one known important function: antibodies (IgA) made in the lachrymal gland help keep the eye free from infection.

Going from that to why you cry at certain times is odd. I can see why children cry when experiencing physical pain, it's just a temporary increase in an immune barrier in response to pain. But the crying response to emotions is, to me, a head-scratcher.

The best way to produce tears though, is either Thai food or yanking out your nose hairs.

 

[Megamixman]

Well I'd say crying in response to emotion is an evolutionary extension. Emotion does excerise our brain and puts some stress on it and crying seems to help release that stress. It is possible that the neurotransmitters involved are being recycled and the synaptic path that causes that recycling process also causes crying. It could be an exterior signal to others. After all, humans are social creatures.

 

[xTYBALTx]

Originally posted by: Velk

Originally posted by: Diomedes
In reply to jerryjg, you say that there is no survival of the fittest, but there is a elimination of the unfit, surely this is exacly the same thing.

No, not really. The difference is that anything which does not prevent you from breeding doesn't really have any bearing on the survival of said trait.

Particularly with humans, the bar of non-survivable is set pretty low, and has been for some time - it's not surivial of the fittest, but survival of the 'fit enough'.

In that case, we will not talk as if traits which are passed on made one more fit, but rather if they made one less unfit.

 

[xTYBALTx]

Originally posted by: Megamixman
Well I'd say crying in response to emotion is an evolutionary extension. Emotion does excerise our brain and puts some stress on it and crying seems to help release that stress. It is possible that the neurotransmitters involved are being recycled and the synaptic path that causes that recycling process also causes crying. It could be an exterior signal to others. After all, humans are social creatures.

Yes, perhaps you are on to something! Maybe it triggers old infantile synapses, of being comforted by ones mother (or surrogate) when in distress. Such that one experiences emotional pain --> crying --> comfort. That could explain also why we 'feel better' after crying; our brain thinks it has called over the comfort and protection of our mother.

Such that the purpose (sorry Leatherneck. I'm a definition Nazi too, but we mean purpose as in "use," not "ultimate goal") is to help one overcome emotionally challening situations. /_\: The strength gained in the face of adversity from crying would seem to meet the test of making one "less likely not to reproduce." :thumbsup:

 

[dcaron]

I think its purpose is to purge stress. Ask a woman (or anyone for that matter) if she feels much better after crying even though the situation that caused her to cry still exists exactly as it had before she cried. My experience with the answer to this question is yes. So, although I cannot explain why it works, that is the effect that it seems to have from my observations.

 

[skrewler2]

Originally posted by: LeatherNeck

My point is very strictly limited to teleological purpose. That is to say, did biology decide one day that crying would be a beneficial trait and therefore worked mutations in such a way that human beings and other animals would have the capacity to cry because it was so useful? Of course not - that's absurd but you hear it all the time from people who ought to know better. You can scarcely watch the Discovery Channel or go to a zoo without somebody saying: "Nature designed the Zebra's stripes to..." as if nature has some sort of intelligence.

The point is very strictly limited to this one: if the question is "What is the biological purpose of crying" as in why did biology purpose to give us the capacity to cry then the question is an absurd one because biology and nature never purpose anything. If, as naturalistic evolution posits, our traits are the result of a filtered random mutational process then there is no purpose or teleology involved.

Can one find utility or function in a trait? Absolutely and crying has much utility. But asking the question, what are the biological benefits of crying or why do we cry are issues of secondary causality (crying is already there so let's see if it has benefit) and not primary causality (why do we have the capacity to cry to begin with).

No one is saying nature has some kind of intelligence, except maybe you that believes in intelligent design (a fancy word for creationism). It's a figure of speech so one doesn't have to give a lecture on evolutionary biology before trying to prove a point.


More on topic, this was google's first hit. It basically sums up what a few people have already said:

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2094.html

It's too bad that some of the responses on here look like quick google search summaries, but without citing their sources.

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
What is the biological purpose of crying, I know why we have tears, but why do we cry when we have extreme emotion? I can think of no biological purpose for the behavior, it could possibly show a threat that your in a position of weakness. What do you guys think?

You loose control of fluids in your body. I think it is much better that your leaks start at the eyes

 

[Calin]

Originally posted by: LeatherNeck
I don't think there has to be a biological "reason" for it.

The classic picture of the short necked giraffe desiring a long neck to reach the fruit and so nature "designs" a long neck for the giraffe is bunk. If a short neck giraffe evolved into a long necked giraffe it was caused by a mutation in the genetic sequence which caused long necked giraffes. No teleogy here, just pure chance.

Luck prefer the prepared ones
This is just a thing when a random mutation is benefic, so the ones that have it prosper, and the ones that don't have it die.
However, it is thought that training/sport can increase someone's height by a few centimeters (there are sports that favor this, like basket, volleyball, swimming)

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: jerryjg

Originally posted by: LeatherNeck
I don't think there has to be a biological "reason" for it.

If you are assuming random processes caused a mutation that caused us to be able to cry then there is not teleological reason to it at all. It just happened randomly.

This is one of the flawed ways that people speak about naturalistic evolution. The idea that a desirable trait is somehow comes into existence because it is "desirable" was disproven when scientists eventually discovered that it was genetic code that determined traits.

The classic picture of the short necked giraffe desiring a long neck to reach the fruit and so nature "designs" a long neck for the giraffe is bunk. If a short neck giraffe evolved into a long necked giraffe it was caused by a mutation in the genetic sequence which caused long necked giraffes. No teleogy here, just pure chance.

So it is with crying if you insist on a purely biological explanation. A genetic mutation occurs which causes the ability for crying. No design here, just pure chance. Pure chance, so no meaning. Hence there is no "reason" for crying, it just happened by random processes that humans can cry. If it came in handy for anything it was not because nature thought it through and decided it would be useful to have a crying being.

i disagree. I think research shows empiracally that although there is no "survival of the fittest",as you rightly point out; there is, however, an "elimination of the unfit", which over time(even from when we were primordial sludge) , has ensured that those better able to adapt (adapt or die) are more likely to survive. hence there was a natural selection occuring for the long necked giraffe. now, honestly, how many short necked giraffes have you seen ?
anyway, MAaybe you could argue that the very first mutation from carbon and hydrogen was a random occurence, but since the universe appears to be infinite, even pointing to an "origon" seems unlikely. After that supposed first random genetic mutation there isnt the possibiltty of any more random occurence since the entire process has betgun to exist in an ordered pattern..an example is the old adage that the saying" anything is possible" cannot be true, because that would eliminate at least one thing being possible. as a biologivcal occurence,its all natural selection.events are "reverse engineered" as senceless and randome, however when seen from a timeless perspective, there really is no coincidence. "god doesnt play dice with the universe " said Einstien.

Please don't apply Einstein's quote to situations where it does not belong. Einstein was referring to certain aspects of quantum mechanics.

 

[MobiusPizza]

Ease off your body built up of pressure and adrenaline?

Cos somehow you definitely feel better after you cried. And people encouage others to cry to make them feel better

 

[BespinReactorShaft]

Originally posted by: Gibsons
The best way to produce tears though, is either Thai food or yanking out your nose hairs.

QFT

 

[blahblah99]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297
What is the biological purpose of crying, I know why we have tears, but why do we cry when we have extreme emotion? I can think of no biological purpose for the behavior, it could possibly show a threat that your in a position of weakness. What do you guys think?

Crying is what infants do when they require their mother's attention, whether they are hungry, cold, sick, in pain, etc etc. Crying in adults is just leftover from the infancy stage.

 

[alcoholbob]

Crying is good for garnering sympathy from others of your own species.

As for giraffes, there is no "environmental" purpose to long necks. They graze low shrubs the majority of the time, and rarely, if ever graze tall plants. Most of their favorite foods are actually low shrubs. Even in times of drought, they will move from low shrub to low shrub, rarely touching the higher greens. Female giraffes have shown a preference of thin, long necked giraffes over thicker necks or shorter necks. It's theorized that over time, this biological fetish of female choice has changed the giraffe physically, even though there is a severe lack of environmental need for high altitude grazing.

 

[BigfootsMonk]

release adrenaline