PWM High on IP35-E

[sjordan]

Man I feel like I am being a pita with all these questions.

Anyway, I got my Q6600 up to 3.2ghz last night using 1.3V. I ran prime95 to see if it was stable and temps on cpu look great(Big Typhoon is awesome!), but the PWM climbed up to 100C and the alarm went off after about 30 minutes.

So, first off what is the PWM and where is it on this board? What can I do to keep the temps down on the PWM.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Abit IP35-E? You have insufficient air flow at the PWM. A heat sink/heat pipe is worthless without air flow. The chance of an improperly seated PWM heat sink (blue heat sink near the back of the case) is very small. You need to upgrade the stock BT's fan to a medium speed 120 x 38mm Panaflo get air flow down into the PWM heat sink. Another option is to provide active cooling. See the bottom of my 1st post at the Abit IP35-E review post (MB forum).

Also use stock voltage at VTT, NB, and SB. You normally will only need to increase Vcore, and RAM voltage if you want to overclock RAMs.

 

[sjordan]

Yes Abit IP35-E. The case temp shows 35C, but I am not sure where it is reading this. Maybe I should reverse the fans in the back to blow air in instead of sucking air out.

The tower has a fan at the top sucking air out, 2 fans in the back sucking air out and 2 fans in the front blowing air in.

All I changed was Vcore(1.3V), and DDR Core (2.0V). I didn't mess with the others.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

The case temperature sensor is at the bottom of the MB near the USB headers.

The entire MB area around the PWM heat sink is used to cool the output devices. You want to blow fresh air to this region. You already have the BT. Buy the fan and build the bracket so you can use fresh air to cool the PWM.

 

[NoelS]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
The case temperature sensor is at the bottom of the MB near the USB headers.

The entire MB area around the PWM heat sink is used to cool the output devices. You want to blow fresh air to this region. You already have the BT. Buy the fan and build the bracket so you can use fresh air to cool the PWM.

SerpentRoyal, Maybe he could use one of those Antec Spot Cool fans there.

sjordan, you just attach the Spot Cool to the mobo with a screw and you can set its gooseneck so the fan is pointed directly where you want it. About $20 at a local store like Best Buy.

Noel

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Yes, another nice option is the Spot Cool. Position it centrally above and as close as possible to the ATX4P1 molex plug (page 1-2 of manual) so that air is blowing straight INTO the MB. I went with the 92mm Zalman because it does an exceptionally good job cooling the MOSFET, NB, SB, GPU, and RAMs. Again, connect the Spot Cool to the SYSTEM fan header so it doesn't have to run at 3000 rpm when PC is idling.



http://www.staples.com/webapp/...dkey=StaplesZipCodeAdd

 

[sjordan]

Ok I went out and bought a Spot cool on my work break (staples next door). Should I direct the fan at the blue heatsink to the left next to the Optical Out, or the blue heatsink next to the ram?

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Optical out. That's the PWM heat sink. Position the Spot Cool directly above the ATX4P1 molex plug. Set the Spot Cool to high and connect it to the SYSTEM fan header. Go into the BIOS and set the CPU fan type to 3-pin mode, SYS FanEQ Control to Enabled, FanEQ Reference temp to CPU, and FanEQ target temp to 45C (page 2-18).

 

[sjordan]

Will do. I will post my results after this is done tonight. Thanks for the help again.

Whats a healthy PWM temp I should see with my q6600 at idle and load?

 

[SerpentRoyal]

I get 53C PWM with E4300 @ 3.49GHz in 85F room. GO quad should pull up to 65C PWM, while the older quad may hit 75C PWM. <70C PWM would be ideal.

Only check CPU temp under load. Check temp after 15 min and 60 min. If there is a large change, then you have poor air flow inside the case. Retest with the MB outside the case.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: sjordan
Will do. I will post my results after this is done tonight. Thanks for the help again.

Whats a healthy PWM temp I should see with my q6600 at idle and load?

Taken from the offical IP35-E thread just a few threads down is what I posted a few days ago...


----------

Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz (400x8 1.312v) Hottest CPU Core = 80c, PWM = 77c PIC

E6750 @ 3.6Ghz (450x8 1.46v) Hottest CPU Core = 56c, PWM = 54c PIC

A delta of 23c and according to your previous posts, the B3 Q6600 increase PWM temps ~20c. So, really, it was not any better with a DC considering that less wattage is running through it.

So the logical conclusion that I have a 'bum' B3 isn't so logical. Lets be sure to compare apples to apples here. A Q6600 B3 is not a 'bum' chip, it is an older stepping. So, if my particular B3 were not within the ~20c delta, then I would agree that my chip is 'bum'. But this is clearly not the case as my B3 is responding as it should.

For those wondering, my current temps @ 3.33Ghz @ 1.35v is ~70c at hottest core and ~80c PWM.

For those wondering, even at 80c the board is perfectly safe for use. The motherboards threshold for warning is 100c and shutdown occours at 120c. The motherboard can handle these temperatures, I just don't particular like them.

Quote take from here

I just finished the heatpipe mod and temps are indeed lower, particularly the PWM which feel from almost 90C after 30 mins of Prime95 to 78C. I have 2 40mm fans blowing on the PWM and Northbridge.[IP35Pro + QC 3.4]

Quote taken from here

Let me guess, you're OCing a Pentium D processor.

PWM is a reflection of how much power you are using for your motherboard. As we both know, the Pentium Dual Cores can eat up more than 250W especially when overclocked and overvolted thus the high PWM. People overclocking 5XX and 6XX wouldn't have temps above 50C.

To put it in perpective, the PWM mosfets/chips should handle temps up to 150C so yours is not a big problem.

Quote taken from here

On first glance, it would appear the PWM temps are out of control. That is not really the case here, the PWM is safe to temperatures in excess of 100C

I don't plan on spending anymore time discussing the PWM temperature, but these should be enough evidence that high temperatures are not rare and abnormal and the MOSFETs run hot depending on how much wattage is running through them.

-----

Hope this helps!

 

[sjordan]

Ok, I just installed the spot cool exactly how everyone suggested. Just a FYI this is a G0 Q6600 with $15 HP 667 ram.

My idle for PWM is aroound 54C or 55C. I just ran Prime95 and it went all the way up to 85C before I stopped it again. I think the spot cool helped a little, but not much. Here are my settings:

356x9x for 3.204ghz
DRAM Speed: 1:1.00 (DDR2-712)
PCI Express Freq: 100

CPU Core Voltage: 1.3075V
DDR2 Voltage: 2.0V
CPU VTT: default of 1.2
ICH 1.5: default of 1.5
MCH 1.25: default of 1.25
CPU GTLREF: Default of 63%

And this is in a Lian Li Classic PC-61 which by default has pretty good airflow.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: sjordan
Ok, I just installed the spot cool exactly how everyone suggested. Just a FYI this is a G0 Q6600 with $15 HP 667 ram.

My idle for PWM is aroound 54C or 55C. I just ran Prime95 and it went all the way up to 85C before I stopped it again. I think the spot cool helped a little, but not much. Here are my settings:

356x9x for 3.204ghz
DRAM Speed: 1:1.00 (DDR2-712)
PCI Express Freq: 100

CPU Core Voltage: 1.3075V
DDR2 Voltage: 2.0V
CPU VTT: default of 1.2
ICH 1.5: default of 1.5
MCH 1.25: default of 1.25
CPU GTLREF: Default of 63%

And this is in a Lian Li Classic PC-61 which by default has pretty good airflow.

More or less the same results as mine. In fact, the difference between my setup and yours could be due to ambient temperature.

Ambient Temp = 23c
Case Temp = 31c
Core Temps 64-69c
PWM = ~75-80c


BTW - it would be more helpful to get 'actual' voltages listed in the BIOS rather than your settings. Certain power supplies, namely, less quality ones tend to have more varience. Thus, even though you set voltages for CPU/MB/RAM, it might actually be higher, which would increase the PWM temperatures.

PWM is a reflection on how much power is going through the board.

 

[sjordan]

My case temp is around 36C, no idea what the temp is in here...but my guess would be around 24-25C.

I am running a TruePower 430Watt. In the bios under PC Health Status I see the following:

CPU Core voltage: 1.25V
DDR2 Voltage: 2.00V

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: sjordan
My case temp is around 36C, no idea what the temp is in here...but my guess would be around 24-25C.

I am running a TruePower 430Watt. In the bios under PC Health Status I see the following:

CPU Core voltage: 1.25V
DDR2 Voltage: 2.00V

Well, your case temperature is 5c higher than mine, which directly correlates to 5c higher temps across the board, if not more.

In any event, basically, both of our boards are running more or less the same temps on the PWM. Who knows, but I could care less at this point. I spent hours building ducts for it, getting a super high speed fan, new CPU cooler for downdraft. It helped a 'little' bit... But not worth it at all. The PWM is cooled properly, it just runs hot on some of these IP35-E boards.

Even so, anything below 100c is safe. Also keep in mind that it will never get up to 80c+ playing games. I think mine has yet to go above 60 during gaming.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: sjordan
Ok, I just installed the spot cool exactly how everyone suggested. Just a FYI this is a G0 Q6600 with $15 HP 667 ram.

My idle for PWM is aroound 54C or 55C. I just ran Prime95 and it went all the way up to 85C before I stopped it again. I think the spot cool helped a little, but not much. Here are my settings:

356x9x for 3.204ghz
DRAM Speed: 1:1.00 (DDR2-712)
PCI Express Freq: 100

CPU Core Voltage: 1.3075V
DDR2 Voltage: 2.0V
CPU VTT: default of 1.2
ICH 1.5: default of 1.5
MCH 1.25: default of 1.25
CPU GTLREF: Default of 63%

And this is in a Lian Li Classic PC-61 which by default has pretty good airflow.

Why don't you wait to see the peak PWM temp. It was 100C previously, correct? What is your room temperature? Can you run the test with the case OPEN vs CLOSE and report the peak PWM temp?

Take the MB outside of the case. The PWM heat sink is retained in place by two push pins. Remove the two pins from the back side of the MB and check to see if all the output devices are making contact with the thermal pad. If okay, then re-assemble the PWM heat sink and position the fan directly above the PWM heat sink. Retest CPU outside of the case.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: sjordan
My case temp is around 36C, no idea what the temp is in here...but my guess would be around 24-25C.

I am running a TruePower 430Watt. In the bios under PC Health Status I see the following:

CPU Core voltage: 1.25V
DDR2 Voltage: 2.00V

Note that AA's Q6600 is an older stepping, which is normally 10C hotter than GO under load. His PWM is 75C, so you should expect to see about 65C with your GO. If your Vcore is only 1.25, then the actual voltage to the CPU under load is probably around 1.22.

I noticed that your case temp is 36C. That's 5C hotter than AA's 31C. You're PWM will also rise by 5C due to the higher case temp.

Have you flashed the 12 BIOS? After flashing, go back to BIOS and load Optimized Default.

 

[sjordan]

OK, I just ran the test longer and it did hit 100C with the case closed.

With the case open it hit 100C as well...seemed to hit it quicker this time around.

I am about to take the machine down and check the PWM heatsink.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Put the Antec fan directly above the PWM heat sink and see if there is any change. I would also suggest that you retest without the PWM heat sink. Yes, blow room temp air directly over the output devices.

 

[sjordan]

idles at 72C with heatsink off and fan directed at it. I took a look at the heatsink and it appears to have made contact with all chips...the middle chips appear to have less contact, but they show slight contact. I am now putting the heaksink back on.

SerpentRoyal: I am running 12 bios.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: sjordan
idles at 72C with heatsink off and fan directed at it. I took a look at the heatsink and it appears to have made contact with all chips...the middle chips appear to have less contact, but they show slight contact. I am now putting the heaksink back on.

SerpentRoyal: I am running 12 bios.

That's good. So now we have adequate heat transfer between the output devices and the PWM heat sink. What about the load CPU and PWM temps outside the case with fan blowing on top of the PWM heat sink?

Compare the PWM's heat sink temp with the BT's heat sink temp. Is the PWM heat sink much warmer near the base?

 

[sjordan]

I didn't try running the board outside of the case, but I did throw another fan in and brought the case temp down to 34C at idle.

The BT's max cpu has been no higher then 68C during the prime95 run. So it is much lower then PWM. By touch, the cpu's base is what I consider warm and the base of the PWM is hot.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

That would confirm the hotter temp at the PWM. You're not getting sufficient air flow across the PWM heat sink to cool the output devices. Need run the MB outside the case with the fan positioned directly above the PWM heat sink (blowing into the heat sink and MB). If the PWM temp goes down, then you may need to strap a small 40mm fan to the PWM heat sink to blow cold air across the fins.

 

[sjordan]

I don't get it. I thought spending the money on a spot cool and directing the flow onto the PWM heatsink would be enough...Guess I can take the spot cool back and buy something else...what a pain.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

It appears that cold air was not getting to the PWM heat sink (base of HS is hot). At 53C PWM, my heat sink is barely warm to the touch (about as warm as the base of the BT).

A quad can draw a lot of current from the output devices. If your case does not provide adequate air flow to the PWM HEAT SINK, then the output devices will run HOT. It's very important to control PWM, NB, and SB temperatures when you overclock a quad.