Q9650 on P5Q Overclocking issue

[Phew]

I used to run an E8400 in my P5Q, and I had it at 4.34 GHz (482 FSB), with no problems whatsoever. I didn't really have to tweak anything, just bump up the CPU voltage a little bit. VTT, PLL, Northbridge voltage, all these things were at or near default values.

I swapped out the E8400 for a Q9650, and now I am having a hell of a time getting the FSB above about 435 MHz. Prime95 Blend just dies within a minute if I increase the FSB further. I dropped the CPU multiplier to 6 so I could just focus on maxing out the FSB first, so rule out any CPU issues (insufficient voltage, cooling, etc). Things that don't help whatsoever:

-Swapping memory. 2 DIMMS, 4 DIMMS, doesn't matter how much memory I have installed or where I put it.
-VTT. Increasing this to 1.4V and beyond doesn't help a bit
-Northbridge voltage. Increasing this to 1.4V and beyond doesn't help a bit
-CPU PLL. 1.5V up to 1.56V, no difference
-Loosening memory timings. 5-5-5-15 to 6-6-6-18, no difference
-Clock Skew. Upped both NB and CPU clock skew to about 300ps, no difference
-All of the memory settings that claim to improve FSB overclocking (static read control etc), none of them made any difference

I scoured online for hours, and tried everything that people overclocking this CPU suggested, to no avail. I know my motherboard and memory can handle much higher FSB, since my E8400 rocked up to 480+ MHz FSB. Yet this Q9650 just hits a wall around 435 MHz.

Any ideas?

EDIT: My actual limit is 432 FSB. 431 is just fine, 432 fails Blend within minutes no matter what I set in the BIOS. I went ahead and bought a Gigabyte UD3P. If that board can't push the FSB to at least 450 MHz, nothing will.

EDIT2: Got the UD3P. Goodbye FSB issues!

 

[PCTC2]

Quad cores put a lot more strain on the chipset. You might not be able to get a high FSB.

 

[Phew]

Understood, but I would expect there to be some BIOS setting that helps, if only moderately. Increasing VTT, Vnorthbridge, and PLL from stock all the way to the safe limits doesn't even help me get 1 MHz on the FSB.

I've never heard of anyone with this mobo that can't get at least 450 MHz on the FSB while running a quad.

Do I still need more Northbridge voltage? I've seen some people need 1.48+ at 445 FSB.

 

[dbcooper1]

When going from dual to quad, I wasn't able to resolve my problems until I moved from a P35 to a P45 board.

 

[Phew]

Not surprising dbcooper, but I already have a P45 board. When I get home this afternoon, I'm going to go crazy with Vnorthbridge and try a few more clock skew combinations, and if that doesn't work, I will have to be content with 3.8 GHz. Coming from a dual at almost 4.4 GHz, that doesn't feel like an upgrade :frown:

 

[aigomorla]

u need more pll voltage.

for 400+ you should be pushing at least 1.6-1.8

 

[Phew]

Thanks aigo, I'll try that. I read somewhere that 1.56V was a safe upper limit on PLL, but that might be for duals. If it's too high, will it fry the CPU or the Mobo? I could live with frying a $100 mobo, but not a $334 CPU.

 

[n7]

It's all in the GTLs.
Namely, your VTT (FSB Termination) + GTLs & NB + GTL voltages/settings.

You don't need more PLL voltage, sorry, at least not on the P45 boards.
Both the P5Qs & UD3P/R series will do their max FSBs with quads with PLL voltage lower than 1.6v; it's not an issue.

Running a dual core is a piece of cake for modern chipsets.
But overclocking a quad is another story.

GTL settings for one person may not work for the next; every board & particularly every CPU is different.
But here's a good thread on GTLs.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=202292

You'll need to find some that work for you...


Here's what i posted in another thread.
These got me to 465 FSB rock stable.
I basically couldn't get stable over 440-450ish until i got the GTLs figured out.

Originally posted by: n7
Obviously, results will vary for different people, but i'll post the voltages that i ran for 3.95 GHz on my P5Q-D
I tried many other peoples' without success, likely partially because i run four DIMMs not two.

These may be helpful if you decide to go higher, or they may not be.

8.5x465 (3.95 GHz w/ 8 GB P95 Blend/IBT max RAM stable) settings

CPU Voltage: 1.4
CPU GTL Voltage Reference(0/2): 0.68x
CPU GTL Voltage Reference(1/3): 0.68x
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.58
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.34
DRAM Voltage: 1.96 (P5Qs overvolt by 0.08v, so apply lower than desired vDIMM accordingly)
NB Voltage: 1.36
NB GTL Reference: 0.67x
SB Voltage: Auto
PCIE SATA Voltage: Auto

Load-Line Calibration: Enabled
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: Disabled
CPU Clock Skew: 100
NB Clock Skew: 200

 

[Phew]

Thanks n7. You are right, PLL didn't do anything (I tried all the way up to 1.7V).

On my vanilla P5Q with the latest BIOS, I only see one GTL option, "CPU GTL Reference". I set it to 0.65x (it only has 3 options, 0.61x, 0.63x, and 0.65x). Are the additional GTL options only for the Deluxe and/or Pro versions of this board?

With the voltages/settings you quoted (minus the GTL options I don't have), I failed Blend within 5 minutes, as usual.

 

[n7]

Ah shit, you don't have all the GTLs...
You're kinda going to be screwed i'd say...

Stupid Asus neutering their lower end P5Q BIOSes :frown:

 

[ashishmishra]

The additional GTL settings are not on the P5Q Pro either, looks like only the deluxe version has those.

 

[Phew]

Well, the Deluxe does cost like $80 more than the vanilla, so at least those people got something for their money. What's the cheapest mobo that has all the right GTL settings? I don't need xfire/SLI.

Ashish, what are your BIOS settings (voltages/skews/etc)? You got a higher FSB than I do.

Thanks

 

[n7]

UD3R/P should be in your future...hope you have better luck with it & 8 GB than i have though.

 

[ashishmishra]

Originally posted by: Phew
Well, the Deluxe does cost like $80 more than the vanilla, so at least those people got something for their money. What's the cheapest mobo that has all the right GTL settings? I don't need xfire/SLI.

Ashish, what are your BIOS settings (voltages/skews/etc)? You got a higher FSB than I do.

Thanks

FSB: 455
PCIE: 100
FSB Strap: Auto
DRAM Freq: DDR2-911Mhz
DRAM Timing: Auto
DRAM Static Read Control: Disabled
DRAM Read Training Enabled: Disabled
MEM OC Charger: Enabled
AI Clock Twister: Light
AI Transaction Booster: Manual
Common Performance Level: 10 (Yes it is quite loose, haven't done stability tests on tighter values yet )
Pull In's: All Disabled
CPU Voltage: 1.3
CPU GTL: 0.65x
CPU PLL: 1.54
FSB Termination Voltage (VTT): 1.3
DRAM Voltage: 2.06 (P5Q overvolts RAM by ~.1V)
NB Voltage: 1.2V
SB Voltage: 1.1V
PCIE Sata Voltage: 1.5
Load Line Calibration: Enabled
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: Disabled
CPU Clock Skew: Delay 100ps
NB Clock Skew: Delay 200ps

By the way in my opinion, your problem seems related to the common performance level or not enough CPU vcore.

Let me know how it goes.

EDIT: By the ways these settings were good for about 8 hrs of Intelburntest with Maximum stress setting (90% of 8GB Ram)

 

[Phew]

Thanks Ashish, I tried your exact settings (and those settings with all the voltages increased significantly), and yet again I fail Blend within 5 minutes.

I'm going to try those settings with every possible RAM combination one last time, and if that doesn't help, I'll have to decide if 200-400 more MHz is worth buying the UD3P for. The upgrade would probably cost me about $40 net.

It's frustrating, THIS GUY has the same mobo as I do with a Q9550, and he got to 450 FSB without hardly changing anything in the BIOS.

 

[ashishmishra]

Originally posted by: Phew
Thanks Ashish, I tried your exact settings (and those settings with all the voltages increased significantly), and yet again I fail Blend within 5 minutes.

I'm going to try those settings with every possible RAM combination one last time, and if that doesn't help, I'll have to decide if 200-400 more MHz is worth buying the UD3P for. The upgrade would probably cost me about $40 net.

It's frustrating, THIS GUY has the same mobo as I do with a Q9550, and he got to 450 FSB without hardly changing anything in the BIOS.

Just a thought, but I think you might be running into the limits of the CPU, try lowering your multiplier to 6 and check for your max FSB. In my case my motherboard is not stable at 460FSB x 6 regardless of all the voltages (and I'm not lowering my tRD further). At that FSB and multiplier the CPU is actually underclocked. So I might benefit from a new motherboard that can do 460FSB+, but you need to make sure of that before you spend any more money. BTW 3.91Ghz is nothing to sneeze at :thumbsup:

 

[Phew]

I've done everything to date with the CPU multi at 6 (see original post), so I know I'm FSB limited and not CPU limited.

If my E8400 hadn't been so easy to OC near 4.4 GHz, I probably would be fine with 3.8 GHz on the quad. I'm just not too keen on the fact that the 'upgrade' to quad cost me almost $200 net, and in the short term games will be slower. I should have just stuck with my dual. The new price on Q9650s was just too appealing to pass up.

Thanks though

 

[ashishmishra]

Originally posted by: Phew
I've done everything to date with the CPU multi at 6 (see original post), so I know I'm FSB limited and not CPU limited.

If my E8400 hadn't been so easy to OC near 4.4 GHz, I probably would be fine with 3.8 GHz on the quad. I'm just not too keen on the fact that the 'upgrade' to quad cost me almost $200 net, and in the short term games will be slower. I should have just stuck with my dual. The new price on Q9650s was just too appealing to pass up.

Thanks though

Oops my bad, I didn't spot that. I fully understand how you feel, good luck.

 

[Phew]

I just bought a Gigabyte UD3P. So many people have incredible luck overclocking Yorkfields on this Mobo. I may have problems related to using 8GB of RAM, but that beats the current FSB wall I am dealing with on the P5Q.

 

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: Phew
the 'upgrade' to quad cost me almost $200 net, and in the short term games will be slower. I should have just stuck with my dual.

Go play some GTAIV. heheh


Well try your old settings and give a healthy bump to the NB & VTT (I wink as if i have quad oc'ing knowledge)


Good luck!

 

[Phew]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
Well try your old settings and give a healthy bump to the NB & VTT (I wink as if i have quad oc'ing knowledge)

I even tried absurd VTT and NB voltages (like 1.6V), and neither gave me even another MHz above 431FSB. I'm hoping for much better luck on the UD3P. Not that I can really cool this CPU at higher speeds, but that's another matter.

 

[spathotan]

The wildest damn thing, im experiencing the EXACT same thing. I have the P5Q Pro on the 1611 BIOS, and a Xeon X3370 (which is the same as the Q9650). Stock is fine, 3.6ghz is fine, 3.8ghz and 4ghz...no luck, random crashes of programs...Prime95 just straight crashes, dosent even BSOD or just shut cores down sometimes. I have put the NB voltage up to 1.14 (im assuming 1.10 is the stock), and the vcore is 1.28 ive left all other voltages alone, doing regular simple task its fine, but if I say....open two EQ2 clients they will crash within minutes, and Prime95 will make it all the way to Test 12 (about 10 minutes) then its dead, this is at 3.8ghz.

Just know youre not alone on this, but im not about to go buy a new motherboard for this. And kinna like you, I came off a 3.6ghz Q6600 so im also feeling the "what did I upgrade for" vibe.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Phew
I just bought a Gigabyte UD3P. So many people have incredible luck overclocking Yorkfields on this Mobo. I may have problems related to using 8GB of RAM, but that beats the current FSB wall I am dealing with on the P5Q.

Haha, you got the 4+ GHz bug too

Enjoy & keep us posted.

Originally posted by: spathotan
The wildest damn thing, im experiencing the EXACT same thing. I have the P5Q Pro on the 1611 BIOS, and a Xeon X3370 (which is the same as the Q9650). Stock is fine, 3.6ghz is fine, 3.8ghz and 4ghz...no luck, random crashes of programs...Prime95 just straight crashes, dosent even BSOD or just shut cores down sometimes. I have put the NB voltage up to 1.14 (im assuming 1.10 is the stock), and the vcore is 1.28 ive left all other voltages alone, doing regular simple task its fine, but if I say....open two EQ2 clients they will crash within minutes, and Prime95 will make it all the way to Test 12 (about 10 minutes) then its dead, this is at 3.8ghz.

Just know youre not alone on this, but im not about to go buy a new motherboard for this. And kinna like you, I came off a 3.6ghz Q6600 so im also feeling the "what did I upgrade for" vibe.

1.14v for the NB isn't even remotely high enough to get a higher FSB stable.

You need a lot more vNB & vTT (FSB Termination Voltage) to get higher FSBs stable with quads.

I'd say an absolute minimum of 1.2v - 1.3v range.

You'll need to increase both vTT & vNB, as well as adjust GTLs if you want to be able to run 400-450+ with a quad.
It varies board to board & CPU to CPU, but you'll need to do a lot more tweaking before you can say that's a board issue.

Also, 1.28v isn't much voltage, especially if you don't have LLC enabled, since there's additional vdrop & vdroop then as well.

I'd say you've got some more work to do before you blame the mobo entirely

Check out my settings i posted earlier in this thread, & take a look thru the thousands of posts in the P5Q thread @ XS to get some ideas of what settings you need to work on.

 

[spathotan]

Im going to look over them now, thank you for the info n7.

Also, I do keep LLC enabled.

 

[spathotan]

Put the NB to 1.25, left GTL on auto, 445FSB, LLC, 1.3v vcore, FSB term at 1.25v. It booted into windows but close to everything was failing left and right, coretemp failed to init, MSNmessenger failed to init, remote admin service which is disabled failed to init, blah blah....basically it was obvious it was unstable at the least. Went to restart and bam, black screen forever, ended up having to clear the CMOS and its good now. First time ive had to do that, I thought I killed the motherboard. Ive never EVER changed any voltage other than DRAM and vcore, my Q6600 ran fine at 3.6ghz on this board with nothing but a vcore change.....

Its at 3.6ghz now at 1.25v and running fine, I think im gonna keep it here at least for now, im too spooked right now. I dont think im cut out for this high 3.8ghz+ overclocking

Also, sorry for the thread hijack.