Qualcomm cuts 4,500 jobs, may spin off divisions

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
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And there's already rumours of S820 overheating too.

This will give Mediatek, Huawei, Samsung, Intel another chance to step up their game in the Android smartphone space.
 
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Jimzz

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2012
4,399
190
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Problem is when companies do this they shot themselves in the foot. 1 division may have a hard time an held up by another but then that other has issues then they may be held up by the other.

What happens when the old patents expire and its the CPU division that gets a good run or comes up with new patents. Seems these 2 can feed off each other and would be better suited together vs apart. But that is long term, these people want a quick buck so they do not think long term and that has killed many business's.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
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After S800 back in 2013 they went downhill. Apple caught them off guard with a highly competitive ARMv8 64-bit capable A7. S801 was a solid but uninspiring refresh and S805 was basically a graphics boost for the first Quad HD phones. By September Samsung had a fully functional 20nm Cortex A57 SoC on the market, months before S810. Then Samsung surprised them with their agressive 14nm roadmap, S810's well documented failures came to public knowledge and the rest is history.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,428
535
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S801 wasn't even a refresh, it was created as a revision of the S800 basically so that several manufacturers (primarily Samsung with the S5) who had upcoming phones could claim that they had a "new" SoC. It wouldn't look good to still use the the S800 that was already in several phones at the time.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
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Ah good, the Samsung FUD machine is working at full speed.

Oh yes, I'm sure this is all Samsung's fault.

Sony admits Snapdragon 810 is causing Xperia Z3+ overheating issues

SONY HAS ADMITTED that the Xperia Z3+ is overheating owing to problems with the phone's Qualcomm Snapdragon 810 chip.

The Japanese firm said that it will release a software fix in the summer to tackle the fault, which is a known problem seen in other handsets powered by the processor.

Sony acknowledged the overheating after it was detected in tests run by GSMinfo in the Netherlands, which found that the camera app crashed after a few minutes of video recording and that an unusual amount of heat was felt on the rear of the device.

Sony suggests powering off the phone several times a day while the fix is being readied, especially when charging the device. It also recommends that dissatisfied Xperia Z3+ and Xperia Z4 owners should contact the Sony service centre.

www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2...n-810-is-causing-xperia-z3-overheating-issues

DoCoMo Puts Overheating Warning Stickers on Snapdragon 810 Smartphones

Things are really not going well for Qualcomm's Snapdragon 810 processor. The chipset has been pegged as causing overheating problems (despite being a good performer), something Qualcomm denied only to see evidence of overheating persisting in the Sony Xperia Z3+. Now the leading Japanese carrier (DoCoMo) is piling on the pressure by putting an overheating warning on smartphones with the Snapdragon 810.

The handsets in questions on DoCoMo's portfolio are the Sony Xperia Z4, the Sharp Aqous Zeta SA-03G, and the Fujitsu Arrows F-04G. Each will now carry a sticker warning users about overheating and to ensure they keep their data backed up.

www.mobileburn.com/24616/news/docomo-puts-overheating-warning-stickers-on-snapdragon-810-smartphones

Xiaomi Mi Note Pro Overheating Problems Arise

The Mi Note Pro has just gone on sale today and reports of both severe and general overheating problems have already started popping up on social media as well as on the Xiaomi official forums.

xiaomi-mi-note-pro-overheating-issues-01Some users have reported severe cases of overheating that have led to their devices to completely fail with burned motherboards while overheating on other Mi Note Pro units have led to display or touchscreen failure. There have also been reports that using the device while charging ended up overheating the device.

Many attest the overheating problems to the Qualcomm Snapdragon 810 processor that Xiaomi decided to use for the Note Pro. The Snapdragon 810 has become notorious for overheating with companies like Samsung opting to abandon the Snapdragon 810 in their flagship phones due to the heating issues although Qualcomm has denied these accusations.

http://www.gizmochina.com/2015/05/13/xiaomi-mi-note-pro-overheating-problems-arise/



Not to mention LG's choice of S808 for the G4 after having used S810 in the G Flex 2, surely Samsung's fault too. Too much Charlie D fiction reading?
 
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monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
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Usually oems can set power parameters so I don't see why they are overheating. Seems to be more chassis and firmware design issue. Also don't other socs throttle?
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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OEMs can only set power parameters using the controls provided to them by the SoC manufacturer. If the 810 is chewing up more power than it should given a particular power state, then the bottom line is that it's putting up such poor performance/watt that the OEM has no choice but to risk some overheating to meet consumer demands for performance.

Looks like the semiconductor business is having problems all around. AMD, Intel, Qualcomm . . . who's next?
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
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I wonder how much of this throttling is due solely to the addition of useless 64 bit support? That graph is particularly bad because it shows that the SoC cannot maintain even 950MHz without throttling eventually.
 

Kuiva maa

Member
May 1, 2014
181
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Usually oems can set power parameters so I don't see why they are overheating. Seems to be more chassis and firmware design issue. Also don't other socs throttle?

They do, and a larger chassis is usually better at holding frequencies (ie iphone 6 vs iphone 6+).
 

dark zero

Platinum Member
Jun 2, 2015
2,655
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I won't be surprised if Intel might be buying a broken Qualcomm to get their tech and improve it.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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I won't be surprised if Intel might be buying a broken Qualcomm to get their tech and improve it.

Even Intel does not have that kind of money. Qualcomm's Market cap is a huge $100B. It's almost as big as Intel which has a Market cap of $136B.

Also, looking at how Intel's mobile division has failed for years, I don't see how they could improve Qualcomm's. Qualcomm has actually been very successful up until the Snapdragon 810.
 
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2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
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Usually oems can set power parameters so I don't see why they are overheating. Seems to be more chassis and firmware design issue. Also don't other socs throttle?

You realize the flip side of what you're suggesting is reduced performance right? You say this as if it's consuming power for the sole propose of radiating it off as heat.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
Ah good, the Samsung FUD machine is working at full speed.

Have they been spreading FUD? It's like the hilarious article on semi accurate about a smear job by Samsung regarding the S810. The author there gleefully accused Samsung of spreading FUD about it until...well I imagine the only people left who don't accept the issues with the S810 also believe the President isn't an American citizen.
 

Madpacket

Platinum Member
Nov 15, 2005
2,068
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I'm pretty happy with my Snapdragon 805 in my Note 4. It's a big phone so no issues with overheating but I would have rather gotten the 20nm big.LITTLE Samsung SoC. It's sad to see these new chips / phones throttle and generate the heat they're producing. Can't believe how fast QualComm fell off the horse here.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
Usually oems can set power parameters so I don't see why they are overheating. Seems to be more chassis and firmware design issue. Also don't other socs throttle?

It may be down to OS and firmware design, but these days power management has been moving more and more into dedicated microcontrollers and even custom logic fast control loops.

Apparently Qualcomm's power management just sucks. It lets the device run too hard for too long until it gets too hot and then goes into a panic mode running everything at much reduced speeds in order to lower temperature at all costs. Other chips throttle too but the real question is how bad the throttling speed is when compared to a speed it could have maintained indefinitely.

And the OEMs were put in a situation where they were forced to throw in simplistic limits to prevent it from throttling. They didn't have time (or possibly ability) to put in improved power management.

But I doubt Qualcomm's power management suddenly became worse than it used to be, more like they took on too much of an increase in peak power consumption in their CPU and especially GPU and weren't properly prepared for it.

Also doesn't mean that the perf/W of their part was itself competitive even with hypothetical excellent power management, especially when compared to Samsung 14nm SoCs. It's possible that the physical layout of their Cortex-A57 for TSMC 20nm is sub-par compared to Exynos 7420's. It looks like Qualcomm decided to move to this CPU on short notice and against their original plans meaning they needed a stopgap solution and wouldn't have had a lot of time to work on it. Given the paucity of other 20nm TSMC SoCs using ARM CPUs Qualcomm could have been on their own for a top notch implementation (nVidia released one too but they say outright that they did the legwork on physical optimization)
 

monstercameron

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2013
3,818
1
0
It may be down to OS and firmware design, but these days power management has been moving more and more into dedicated microcontrollers and even custom logic fast control loops.

Apparently Qualcomm's power management just sucks. It lets the device run too hard for too long until it gets too hot and then goes into a panic mode running everything at much reduced speeds in order to lower temperature at all costs. Other chips throttle too but the real question is how bad the throttling speed is when compared to a speed it could have maintained indefinitely.

And the OEMs were put in a situation where they were forced to throw in simplistic limits to prevent it from throttling. They didn't have time (or possibly ability) to put in improved power management.

But I doubt Qualcomm's power management suddenly became worse than it used to be, more like they took on too much of an increase in peak power consumption in their CPU and especially GPU and weren't properly prepared for it.

Also doesn't mean that the perf/W of their part was itself competitive even with hypothetical excellent power management, especially when compared to Samsung 14nm SoCs. It's possible that the physical layout of their Cortex-A57 for TSMC 20nm is sub-par compared to Exynos 7420's. It looks like Qualcomm decided to move to this CPU on short notice and against their original plans meaning they needed a stopgap solution and wouldn't have had a lot of time to work on it. Given the paucity of other 20nm TSMC SoCs using ARM CPUs Qualcomm could have been on their own for a top notch implementation (nVidia released one too but they say outright that they did the legwork on physical optimization)


Good points.
 

Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
81
I wonder how much of this throttling is due solely to the addition of useless 64 bit support? That graph is particularly bad because it shows that the SoC cannot maintain even 950MHz without throttling eventually.

That graph is useless, it's running a test that doesn't have 100% CPU load. It's impossible to differentiate throttling from scheduling.

From the article:

“The new thermal test only uses two cores,” Poole told Ars. “We could increase the test to use all available cores, but then 4- and 8-core designs would be doing two to four times the work of 2-core designs. The new thermal test also executes a fixed amount of work. Faster processors will be able to spend part of the test idle. This is similar to what most CPU-bound applications like games do on mobile.”

Without knowing what the duty cycle of the test is like it's impossible to even guess if scheduling has an influence.
 

geoxile

Senior member
Sep 23, 2014
327
25
91
All set to buy AMD!

Maybe it would be beneficial for them to get some new talent in. Wouldn't be the first time a company involved with ARM poached AMD's engineers. IIRC Samsung hired away the engineers who created Bobcat.
 
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