Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

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Ghostsonplanets

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Leak:


Snapdragon 7s Gen 3 (a midrange phone SoC), is the first to get Qualcomm's brand new Adreno 800 series GPU architecture in the form of the Adreno 810!?
Seems like the usual cachelet 4x Cortex A7xx + 4x Cortex A5xx at low clocks. Meh

I guess the GPU being based on the new uArch is the saving grace? But this seems an error. QCOM always deliver their new GPU uArch with the new top-end SoC. Doing it with the mid-range SoC and before the introduction of the new premium SoC would definitely be a first.
 

FlameTail

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Seems like the usual cachelet 4x Cortex A7xx + 4x Cortex A5xx at low clocks.
I am curious how the core setup will look like if Qualcomm brings Oryon to midrange SoCs.

I could see a 2P+2E or 6E setup.

It would the first CPUs with less than 8-cores in a long time. Nowadays, every SoC has atleast an 8-core CPU, even low end ones (although like 4/6 cores in those are the feeble Cortex A5xx).
I guess the GPU being based on the new uArch is the saving grace? But this seems an error. QCOM always deliver their new GPU uArch with the new top-end SoC. Doing it with the mid-range SoC and before the introduction of the new premium SoC would definitely be a first.
Adreno 8xx is certainly very intriguing. I'd argue it's the most exciting aspect of the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4, even more so than the custom Oryon CPU.
 

soresu

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soresu

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Huh. Dreamweaver still exists?
Was surprised too, honestly I couldn't even remember what it was for it's been that long 🤣

I think I used it to create and publish a website in 2005, my one and only contribution to web design 😅
 

soresu

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Not really bothered one way or another, they dragged their feet on modernising the UI for Windows equivalent for retina displays (HiDPI), leaving my early uni experience a very painful one to have to use Photoshop, Premiere Pro and After Effects on a fairly high res and small monitor.

Literally why I shifted from traditional PC monitors to HDTVs as my home PC display.

Needless to say my meh opinion on Adobe shifted to seething hatred very quickly.
 

FlameTail

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Improvements that X Elite G2 might/could/should bring;

- 3nm process node
- LPDDR5X-10700/LPDDR6
- ARMv9 / SVE2 / SME
- E-cores on CPU
- Adreno 800 series GPU
- 100+ TOPS NPU
- PCIe Gen 5
- USB 80 Gbps
- 8K external display support
- Stronger VPU (8K encode/decode)
 

soresu

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ARMv9 / SVE2 / SME
I wouldn't take SME as a given as an optional feature of the ISA.

Given SME's lack of inclusion in Neoverse CPU IP so far, indications seem to put it as an addition to the ISA solely for Apple, rather than ARM themselves.

Probably to match the non standard feature set of Mx SoC's AMX co-processor.

Also important point of distinction, the ISA name is not just v9.

It's v9-A for application processor.

v9-M (µcontroller) and v9-R (real time) specs haven't coalesced as yet, whether they will or not may well be up to the success of RISC-V in those market segments.

The other v8 specs took years to appear after v8-A also, v8-M has its own SIMD instruction set extension called Helium (lighter than Neon, hint hint 😂).

The research basis for ARM's vector agnostic SIMD (aka SVE) was an instruction set called Argon, heavier than Neon.
 
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Ghostsonplanets

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QCOM talked already that India is a big untapped market for $99 5G handsets. This an revenue opportunity in a stale global handset market.


It's probably a Snap 4 Gen 2 with regional pricing in partnership with select phone brands to release $99 5G phones for India mass market adoption.

If everything goes well, this will probably be extended towards others big markets with poor purchasing power but vast potential like Brazil.
 
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FlameTail

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I wouldn't take SME as a given as an optional feature of the ISA.

Given SME's lack of inclusion in Neoverse CPU IP so far, indications seem to put it as an addition to the ISA solely for Apple, rather than ARM themselves.
I wouldn't dismiss SME like that, for reasons...
 

soresu

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I wouldn't dismiss SME like that, for reasons...
I wouldn't dismiss adding a new instruction set as some casual thing.

AMX/SME is literally described as being a separate co-processor.

That's not a trivial add by any means if it wasn't already on the roadmap whenn Phoenix went in the oven.
 

Nothingness

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I wouldn't dismiss adding a new instruction set as some casual thing.

AMX/SME is literally described as being a separate co-processor.
You don't have to implement SME as a separate block. But if you don't want to kill area, it's indeed better to add it as a block that can be shared by all cores in a cluster.
 

soresu

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You don't have to implement SME as a separate block. But if you don't want to kill area, it's indeed better to add it as a block that can be shared by all cores in a cluster.
That was my assumption.

But beyond that if those features aren't already in Phoenix in some form then they aren't going to just get added so easily as it's effectively a very major optional feature.

Seems a lot more sensible just to add more oomph to the SVE units.
 
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hemedans

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QCOM talked already that India is a big untapped market for $99 5G handsets. This an revenue opportunity in a stale global handset market.


It's probably a Snap 4 Gen 2 with regional pricing in partnership with select phone brands to release $99 5G phones for India mass market adoption.

If everything goes well, this will probably be extended towards others big markets with poor purchasing power but vast potential like Brazil.
4 gen 2 is around $110 in India, with Subsidies you can get it for $99. Probably new soc like 4 gen 3.
 

FlameTail

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SME is a crucial part of ARM's vision for AI

Arm's hardware advancements are bolstered by a sophisticated software ecosystem designed to exploit the full potential of its processors. At the heart of this ecosystem are the new Kleidi libraries, which play a crucial role in optimizing artificial intelligence (AI) and computer-based applications. These libraries provide developers with tools tailored to maximize the performance and efficiency of Arm's latest cores
KleidiAI is a key component that focuses on accelerating AI workloads. It includes a comprehensive set of computational kernels optimized for Arm's architecture, enabling efficient execution of various AI tasks such as machine learning, natural language processing, and data analytics. By offering highly optimized routines for common AI operations, KleidiAI allows developers to achieve significant performance gains while maintaining energy efficiency. This is increasingly important as AI applications become more prevalent in mobile devices, smart home systems, and industrial automation.
KleidiAI relies on two technologies: SVE2 and SME.

One could argue that, for the purpose of AI, SME is more important than SVE, since it deals with matrices.

Thing is they don't even have SVE 😞 And it's not trivial to implement (though it is more or less a prerequisite for SME).
M4 has SME but no SVE/SVE2.
Technically apple-m4 is ARMv9.2a, but a quirk of LLVM defines v9.0 as requiring SVE, which is optional according to the Arm ARM and not supported by the core. ARMv8.7a is the next closest choice
But beyond that if those features aren't already in Phoenix in some form then they aren't going to just get added so easily as it's effectively a very major optional feature.
I agree, it's not certain that Oryon V2/Pegasus/X Elite G2 will have SME. After all, even Cortex X925 (ARM's 2024 IP) doesn't support SME, as far as I am aware.

But in the long term, I think it's reasonable yo assume that Qualcomm will add SME sometime in the future.

Intel has already boldly proclaimed a "multi-engine AI strategy". That means having the ability to run AI on multiple blocks in the SoC: CPU, GPU and NPU.

Apple has made no such loud proclamations, but it's clear they also embrace the multi-engine AI strategy.

It seems ARM also believes in this vision, and hence they laid the groundwork with extensions such as SVE2, SME, SME2 and libraries/toolkits such as KleidiAI and KleidiCV.
 
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