Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

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jdubs03

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I was also waiting for GPU improvements. Apple Silicon CPU are great, but the GPUs still have room for improvements.

I have been under that impression for a while now. Apple seems to be on a 'rolling release' scheme, with features added as they're ready.

I wonder if this is because their hardware team can't move as fast as their silicon team. Think about the Mac Studio. If the rumors are to be believed, the M4 Max will be released about a year after the original M4. There is plenty of space for improvements in this meantime.
Nah that’d be the M4 Ultra. The M4 Max should launch next month along with the M4 Pro in the MBPs.

Their CPU is top tier but it is going to be weird seeing them get beaten in MT. With 2 less efficiency cores, that’s the whole difference. Less MT, but less power draw. Some healthy competition from Qualcomm hopefully gives Apple a kick to innovate more and gain back that crown on the MT side.
 

FlameTail

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There is no way the Gen 4 doesn’t gobble up power like a boss. Count me surprised if they manage to pull off not doing so.
Will have to see. The rumours also say 8G4 GPU consumes less power than 8G3 GPU, while being 60% faster. That... I find to be quite suspect.
 
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jdubs03

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Will have to see. The rumours also say 8G4 GPU consumes less power than 8G3 GPU, while being 60% faster. That... I find to be quite suspect.
Yea just seems too pie in the sky. At least it’s not too far away to find out, with Qualcomms’ summit next month. My guess is they’ll have either a reference device? Or maybe Xiaomi will be their reference.

Yeah I saw that too. Definitely hyping it up. Because we know it won’t surpass the A18Pro in ST.
 
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POWER4

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May 25, 2024
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Nah that’d be the M4 Ultra. The M4 Max should launch next month along with the M4 Pro in the MBPs.

Their CPU is top tier but it is going to be weird seeing them get beaten in MT. With 2 less efficiency cores, that’s the whole difference. Less MT, but less power draw. Some healthy competition from Qualcomm hopefully gives Apple a kick to innovate more and gain back that crown on the MT side.
Man, I replied to the wrong thread. It is too early in the morning, my head is not working properly.
 

FlameTail

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Hifihedgehog seems to be insisting that Snapdragon X Gen 2 will debut in 2025H2, based on information he got from Microsoft Surface team.


For mid to late 2025 release,
Microsoft Surface Pro 12 is currently in development to get a redesign. This will include not only a 13” but an 11” model which will coincide with Qualcomm's 2nd generation Snapdragon X series release. I’m not hearing of anything before then.
It doesn’t square with what Surface Team is gearing up for in 2025. Their plan then is to seize the iPad Pro’s industry tablet crown with an 11” SKU and 2nd gen Oryon, which will have the necessary efficiency, is a crucial piece of the hardware puzzle to achieve that objective.
Abandoning Intel for Qualcomm was Microsoft Surface’s game plan since Pro X 5 years ago & has been the end goal. There will likely be one enterprise holdover in their “for Business” lineup w/ an x86 fallback. However, Intel is now officially second tier in their marketing
For example, we may see them release a Surface Pro 12 for Business in conjunction with or shortly before the Qualcomm counterpart hits. Surface Pro 10 for Business is a prime example of where Intel now falls in the Surface foodchain. They are no longer apex in their team’s eyes.
This goes against Tigerick's leak that Snapdragon X Gen 2 is 2026H1.
 
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jdubs03

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Will be going up against the M5, so for ST I highly doubt they bridge the gap. MT is a different story; they’ll probably have to sacrifice some for less power draw. Should be interesting though at least there will be some dynamism.

The M4 beats the X1E64 in GB MT by 12%.
 

POWER4

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May 25, 2024
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Hifihedgehog seems to be insisting that Snapdragon X Gen 2 will debut in 2025H2, based on information he got from Microsoft Surface team.






This goes against Tigerick's leak that Snapdragon X Gen 2 is 2026H1.
View attachment 107182
Let's see how other leakers follow. So far, he is the only one claiming that. It seems improbable, given previous reports, unless NUVIA found a secret boost button below their desk.

About NUVIA, I hear they have been hiring "heavily" (at least for their scale) from Intel and Samsung. Are these increases in headcount, or are they trying to compensate for the losses to Apple?
 

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Interesting, I guess in a few years we might see Apple CPUs pick up some steam again by that I mean >20% YoY improvements.

Edit: M4/A18 might be one of the new designs after the 2019 exodus from this new team.
 

mvprod123

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Jun 22, 2024
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Interesting, I guess in a few years we might see Apple CPUs pick up some steam again by that I mean >20% YoY improvements.

Edit: M4/A18 might be one of the new designs after the 2019 exodus from this new team.
I think the role of Nuvia is a bit exaggerated. The key team of P.A. Semi still works for Apple. If you check out the A14 release, the performance improvements were mediocre compared to the A13. Although Gerard worked on this design.
I think the point is that now there are no such sharp technological leaps between nodes as before.
 
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FlameTail

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Interesting, I guess in a few years we might see Apple CPUs pick up some steam again by that I mean >20% YoY improvements.

Edit: M4/A18 might be one of the new designs after the 2019 exodus from this new team.
How do you come to that conclusion from just one Linkedin profile? Are there many others?
 

FlameTail

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Dec 15, 2021
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It's fairly normal for engineers to hop from company to company in this industry. So unless there is dozens of such examples, I don't find it to be remarkable at all.
 
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FlameTail

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Dec 15, 2021
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What I am most excited about in the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4;

1. Oryon E-cores

Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 is rumoured to have 2 Phoenix-L cores and 6 Phoenix-M cores. I guess L stands for Large, and M stands for Medium. Essentially, Phoenix-L acts as the P-core and Phoenix-M is the E-core.

Phoenix-L should be fairly similar to Phoenix in X Elite, which is fairly well documented. So it's Phoenix-M which is more mysterious, and what I am curious about. Is it the same uarch as Phoenix-L, but clocked lower? Perhaps a slightly modified version of the big Phoenix uarch? Or even more radically, a ground up core redesign?

2. Adreno 830 GPU

The Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 upgrades to Qualcomm's brand new Adreno 8 series GPU architecture. Rumoured architectural improvements;
+ Significantly improved FP32 performance
+ Dynamic Wave Pairing technology
+ Support for HGEMM
+ New memory compression algorithm
+ Slice architecture

Analyses of Qualcomm's Adreno 7 series architecture have found it to be lacking in several aspects, such as compute performance. This is particularly evident in the Snapdragon X Elite, which uses an Adreno 7 series based GPU.

It will be interesting to see how Adreno 8 series addresses these weaknesses, and elevates Snapdragon's GPU architecture to the next level.
 
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Doug S

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Feb 8, 2020
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What's so funny? I've already seen this on Linkedin View attachment 107203

That's totally normal. Best way to get a raise or a promotion - or take a shot at a big score on your stock options if you join a startup that gets bought out like Nuvia.

The "drain" of Apple's engineering talent to Nuvia was overblown, and now I see people are overblowing the fact that some who left have returned. Losing a top guy like GW III certainly has an impact, but the foot soldiers? There is always turnover, and all the time new people are brought in from elsewhere, or are hired out of grad school (bringing some fresh ideas, or so you hope) Even the loss of your top guys might be a benefit in the long run - it gives an opportunity for others to come up and lead. Maybe they turn out to be better, and had just lacked the opportunity. Even if they aren't necessarily better, they will bring their own ideas and then I guess you find out whether those ideas work out or not when they're put into silicon.

I mean, if you believe GW III was not only the top architect at Apple but the best in the world, then losing him would by definition be a huge blow. But I'm not sure on what basis you'd make such a claim. Yes, Apple went from where the idea of comparing them to x86 performance was laughable to beating x86 under his leadership, but he had access to essentially unlimited resources (well, unlimited until he wanted to do a server CPU...) and a large talented team behind him. An amazing accomplishment, and he's clearly one of the best in the world and maybe IS the best in the world. But people here seem to assume he's the best as if that's a given. There might some who are better who are limited by the resources and goals of their employer and the people around them, and doing some really amazing stuff but it is in the context of ultra low power or embedded so it won't be something people discuss in these forums. Maybe the best is at Intel, but is suffocated by corporate politics and the demands of the marketing/sales teams.
 
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Nothingness

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2013
3,137
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It's fairly normal for engineers to hop from company to company in this industry. So unless there is dozens of such examples, I don't find it to be remarkable at all.
That's not true, at least in Europe. I personnally refuse to recruit people who have been changing companies that often, and the linkedin profile shown is typically one that I'd refuse to even consider.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,888
4,912
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That's not true, at least in Europe. I personnally refuse to recruit people who have been changing companies that often, and the linkedin profile shown is typically one that I'd refuse to even consider.

That's what the Linkedin profile of most top performers looks like in Silicon Valley. European companies are more loyal to employees, so employees are more loyal to companies there. US companies - with few exceptions - have zero loyalty to employees, so people have figured out they need to do what's best for them, not wait for their employer to recognize their contributions and give them a huge raise or big promotion.
 

jdubs03

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,079
746
136
The "drain" of Apple's engineering talent to Nuvia was overblown, and now I see people are overblowing the fact that some who left have returned. Losing a top guy like GW III certainly has an impact, but the foot soldiers? There is always turnover, and all the time new people are brought in from elsewhere, or are hired out of grad school (bringing some fresh ideas, or so you hope) Even the loss of your top guys might be a benefit in the long run - it gives an opportunity for others to come up and lead. Maybe they turn out to be better, and had just lacked the opportunity. Even if they aren't necessarily better, they will bring their own ideas and then I guess you find out whether those ideas work out or not when they're put into silicon.
It’s kind of wild the two colleges he came out of. Honestly I had never even heard of his graduate school. Diamond in the rough right there for sure.
 
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