Yeah the Nokia purchase was the clear impetus for the silly predictions. IDC (I think?) thought Nokia still had the cachet they used to and would sell so many devices + attract other OEMs + attract app devs. It continues to amaze me that the thought process really seemed to be:There was a trend,
from 2012 Q4 (announcement of wp8) to 2013 Q3 (Sale of Nokia device to Microsoft) Wp sold lot of device and managed to capture 4% marketshare in just one year,
Things falls apart when Microsoft took Nokia division and discontinue everything, most people who Bought Wp because of Nokia move to other platforms.
I mean, they already are flat on their face. Lunar Lake is less efficient than an M1 or a Cortex X3/4 phone in SpecINT, and less performant than a Dimensity 9400. The average SKU geekbench is about 2500-2900, which is basically the SDXE, but on N3B with a more expensive die and overall package with less MT. And it’s also behind the M3 even at the top SKU + using more power. The battery life isn’t actually better than SDXE either on similar laptops.I highly doubt it, unless Intel/AMD falls flat on it's face again, and Pantherlake-U loses 35% of battery life over Lunarlake, meaning back to Meteorlake levels.
Forecasters are notorious for assuming whatever trend is in motion will continue especially when it fits their bias.
I know Microsoft was pushing WoA sometimes to the detriment of the market recently. Intel and Microsoft have a very dysfunctional love/hate relationship where they blame each other for their problems not realizing they hate each other because they see their own flaws as if looking into a mirror.
Lunarlake is nowhere near as bad as you say. The battery life is slightly worse in some, but better in others and that's more than enough to stave off SDXE. The better graphics and compatibility makes it a no brainer for Windows.I mean, they already are flat on their face. Lunar Lake is less efficient than an M1 or a Cortex X3/4 phone in SpecINT, and less performant than a Dimensity 9400. The average SKU geekbench is about 2500-2900, which is basically the SDXE, but on N3B with a more expensive die and overall package with less MT. And it’s also behind the M3 even at the top SKU + using more power. The battery life isn’t actually better than SDXE either on similar laptops.
that is impressive. Come Qualcomm, hurry up with V2.New GB score for the S8E(E).. G4.. whatever it'll be called.
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Yeah I agree as well battery life is excellent for Lunar Lake, similar to M3. Where Intel falls apart is the P core. This is where ARM has a big lead.Lunarlake is nowhere near as bad as you say. The battery life is slightly worse in some, but better in others and that's more than enough to stave off SDXE. The better graphics and compatibility makes it a no brainer for Windows.
The latest NBC review shows the Yoga having better battery life than Snapdragon parts. It beats the others(including Snapdragon) pretty greatly.
15-17 hours of battery life while having a 2880x1800 120Hz display is pretty amazing.
Also while you have a point about the phone parts, when it comes to the forecast it was solely about Windows on ARM, so it doesn't count.
Bigger problem is future, because I have doubts whether Pantherlake will carry the efficiency forward. My criticism towards Intel has always been about this. They do *just* enough to stave off competition and right back to being fat and lazy.
It does count because those are coming to Windows on Arm — the X925 with Nvidia/MediaTek and the 8 Gen 4 on N3 part. It is quite simple: Intel is not that competitive for the node and costs at play. Qualcomm laptops on N3 would in fact be way more competitive on performance contra the silly denials and writeoffs quoting random presentations from TSMC — they ship 3.4GHz standard on N4P solely because they cannot get 4+GHz standard yield. On N3E they can clearly get it to 4.2++ GHz and even for phones where the power pressure is more intense. Regardless of whether or not they’ll be burners in phones, those 4.2-4.47GHz N3E Oryon cores in a laptop chip would likely be more efficient than the current X Elite stuff even so, and the fact that they could ship that standard is amazing. The point here is again simple: It isn’t just about battery life, it’s about costs and what you can do in performance, performance/W under similar constraints. Qualcomm with E Cores and N3 just as Windows on Arm gets better is not something Intel is going to enjoy. Even if battery life by some miracle were similar, at this point they’ll (AMD too) have another problem — absolute performance. One way or another.Lunarlake is nowhere near as bad as you say. The battery life is slightly worse in some, but better in others and that's more than enough to stave off SDXE. The better graphics and compatibility makes it a no brainer for Windows.
The latest NBC review shows the Yoga having better battery life than Snapdragon parts. It beats the others(including Snapdragon) pretty greatly.
15-17 hours of battery life while having a 2880x1800 120Hz display is pretty amazing.
Also while you have a point about the phone parts, when it comes to the forecast it was solely about Windows on ARM, so it doesn't count.
Sure. But I’m pointing out it’s probably not going to work unless you think Arm on Windows will fail, which I highly doubt at this stage with the app library porting and Nvidia coming. Most of it is just competence too, Intel has seen the M1 and known Qualcomm was coming, seen AMD as well enter mobile and their main response is a fundamentally C+ grade part that only looks good because A) AMD also sucks with very low power, ST efficiency and battery life, B) X86 software barrier is still a thing and C) QC’s GPU isn’t good enough yet nor is Nvidia in WoA.Bigger problem is future, because I have doubts whether Pantherlake will carry the efficiency forward. My criticism towards Intel has always been about this. They do *just* enough to stave off competition and right back to being fat and lazy.
Lunarlake is nowhere near as bad as you say. The battery life is slightly worse in some, but better in others and that's more than enough to stave off SDXE. The better graphics and compatibility makes it a no brainer for Windows.
The latest NBC review shows the Yoga having better battery life than Snapdragon parts. It beats the others(including Snapdragon) pretty greatly.
15-17 hours of battery life while having a 2880x1800 120Hz display is pretty amazing.
Also while you have a point about the phone parts, when it comes to the forecast it was solely about Windows on ARM, so it doesn't count.
Bigger problem is future, because I have doubts whether Pantherlake will carry the efficiency forward. My criticism towards Intel has always been about this. They do *just* enough to stave off competition and right back to being fat and lazy.
Sure that’s true largely but my point is that from an engineering perspective on the CPU NPU etc they are making Intel and AMD look pathetic. The area comparisons vs AMD are extremely favorable too especially given QC is way more efficient than AMD for ST and battery/light use.Qualcomm's main issue right now is GPU, they have a weak GPU and bad drivers on WoA. 8G4 GPU needs to impress this summit, supposedly will be moving towards a PC like arch. Excited to this because they are behind in mobile and PC and they need a win here.
Almost all reviews I saw said battery life was excellent, great cpu but bad gpu.
Yeah. What ever they release next is not going to disappoint CPU wise. It's all about how much they can improve the GPU and drivers. For business use it's already okay.Qualcomm's main issue right now is GPU, they have a weak GPU and bad drivers on WoA. 8G4 GPU needs to impress this summit, supposedly will be moving towards a PC like arch. Excited to this because they are behind in mobile and PC and they need a win here.
Almost all reviews I saw said battery life was excellent, great cpu but bad gpu.
Whats Lunar lake GB6 score at 17-20W that will be nice comparison with Current mobile flagship soc.It does count because those are coming to Windows on Arm — the X925 with Nvidia/MediaTek and the 8 Gen 4 on N3 part. It is quite simple: Intel is not that competitive for the node and costs at play. Qualcomm laptops on N3 would in fact be way more competitive on performance contra the silly denials and writeoffs quoting random presentations from TSMC — they ship 3.4GHz standard on N4P solely because they cannot get 4+GHz standard yield. On N3E they can clearly get it to 4.2++ GHz and even for phones where the power pressure is more intense. Regardless of whether or not they’ll be burners in phones, those 4.2-4.47GHz N3E Oryon cores in a laptop chip would likely be more efficient than the current X Elite stuff even so, and the fact that they could ship that standard is amazing. The point here is again simple: It isn’t just about battery life, it’s about costs and what you can do in performance, performance/W under similar constraints. Qualcomm with E Cores and N3 just as Windows on Arm gets better is not something Intel is going to enjoy. Even if battery life by some miracle were similar, at this point they’ll (AMD too) have another problem — absolute performance. One way or another.
As for today, Qualcomm can build 8C parts that lack on-package RAM and on-die N3 WiFi blah blah but still get 2450-2850 ST on GB6 — which is perfectly fine seeing as most LNL stuff looks like 2550-2850 — and LNL or Zen 4/Kraken matching MT and slot them in laptops in the 600-1000 range like hot cakes, and they will. We already see 2560P display Inspiron 14’s with X Plus chips for $899 with 16GB/512, and OLED 3K Asus laptops with an X Plus at Best Buy for $899 (also 16/512). There is really not anything comparable on the display and responsiveness + battery front at that price, save maybe the Lunar Lake part on a $950 Vivobook 14 but it has a 1920x1200 display — and I also suspect Intel or Asus’s margins are hurting more on that than Qualcomm selling Dell & Asus a separate 8C die given an already small 169mm^2 N4 die. This advantage cuts both ways. Design impacts economics.
Sure. But I’m pointing out it’s probably not going to work unless you think Arm on Windows will fail, which I highly doubt at this stage with the app library porting and Nvidia coming. Most of it is just competence too, Intel has seen the M1 and known Qualcomm was coming, seen AMD as well enter mobile and their main response is a fundamentally C+ grade part that only looks good because A) AMD also sucks with very low power, ST efficiency and battery life, B) X86 software barrier is still a thing and C) QC’s GPU isn’t good enough yet nor is Nvidia in WoA.
That seems like “only” is doing a lot of work, but it isn’t when B) and C) stand a very very likely chance of being turned on their heads in the next 12-24 months and B) is already better than it ever was. There’s reciprocal play too, more hardware for basic web browsing and Nvidia’s entry will stimulate more porting etc.
I don’t buy that Intel secretly has more in the tank by the way and just doesn’t have enough pressure, they’ll still flail even when it gets worse. Lunar Lake is just showing the same old Intel. C+ to B+ at best.
Well, that would be shocking if that was true. I thought 8G4 might beat D9400 in the GPU side of things. Conversely, I wasn't expecting the efficiency of 8G4's CPU to be very good, going by X Elite.Based on the measured data, 8G4 takes the crown in CPU, the efficiency is really outrageous; D9400 beats 8G4 in GPU, the difference in efficiency is not huge, about 10%. Gaming efficiency should be very close. This generation of Android can be said to be a huge success
Today, OnePlus employee Cai Zuxuan made waves on social media, announcing a major breakthrough in processor efficiency. In his personal microblog, Zuxuan stated, “The full energy efficiency data has finally been completed, and the custom version is indeed better than the public design, directly surpassing the A18 Pro and reclaiming the number one spot in the rankings! Everyone, witness history being made!”
In the comments section, Zuxuan clarified that the “custom” version he referred to is Qualcomm’s new high-performance core, designed specifically for their upcoming flagship processor. He hinted that the “public version” could be based on standard ARM architecture, making this new chip a highly optimized and customized version of Qualcomm’s architecture
It would seem like this is just a Oneplus official hyping up the SoC that powers their next phone, but I think there is some kernel of truth in it.The new processor, which is expected to debut with the OnePlus 13, will feature Qualcomm’s Oryon CPU. The next-generation Snapdragon flagship chip boasts two mega-cores clocked at 4.32GHz and six large cores at 3.53GHz, setting a new standard for performance.
Does he mean surpassed in MT? Cause ST A18 Pro still has a lead in ST as well as in IPC.It would seem like this is just a Oneplus official hyping up the SoC that powers their next phone, but I think there is some kernel of truth in it as well.
However, with great power comes great skepticism. Concerns have been raised about the potential for overheating—some netizens have already dubbed the chipset “Fire Dragon,” alluding to past overheating issues
With such glowing reviews from insiders and manufacturers, it seems the Snapdragon 8 Gen4 is poised to offer unprecedented power without the overheating issues of its predecessors a few years ago. As the “Ice Dragon” takes flight, fans can look forward to stable, high-performance devices hitting the market soon.
he said efficiency,Does he mean surpassed in MT? Cause ST A18 Pro still has a lead in ST as well as in IPC.
Ugh, this is just guerrilla marketing
Within the linked Weibo discussion thread, there appears to be a specific claim. There is a posting of an A18 Pro Geekbench 6 run with the MT score of 9615. He says it takes 12 W to get this. While he doesn’t post the Snapdragon run, he claims that at 12 W it scores over 10,000.Does he mean surpassed in MT? Cause ST A18 Pro still has a lead in ST as well as in IPC.
Ugh, this is just guerrilla marketing
I’m highly doubtful it’ll pull only 12W while producing a 10k score.Within the Weibo discussion thread, there appears to be a specific claim. There is a posting of an A18 Pro Geekbench 6 run with the MT score of 9615. He says it takes 12 W to get this. While he doesn’t post the Snapdragon run, he claims that at 12 W it scores over 10,000.
For overall phone efficiency, however, basic background tasks we’ll have to beat the e cores. To me, those are the unsung heroes of Apple’s device efficiency.