Naa.Oh but it is.
It's fine?Blowing 140mm^2 N3B on this thing is honestly mediocre for what it is.
Doesn’t lunar lake also have separate IO tile too that’s 46mm^2 on TSMC N6.Much better. Blowing 140mm^2 N3B
It also has a loooooooooot more I/O than apple provides.Doesn’t lunar lake also have separate IO tile too that’s 46mm^2 on TSMC N6.
It’s not that — they’re like the same size. It’s just that we both know LNC power curve is going to be messy. Apple’s base M3 is still doing more like 7-9W in practice on total ST platform (contra Apple fans who think it’s like 4-5 lol), but LNL’s LNC with 4.7-4.9GHz is most likely going for 2-2.5X that where it would actually be iso-perf ST with M3.Naa.
It's fine?
Not like M3 is that much smaller.
Yea this is why I don’t count the IO tile. Unfair. LNC is a better chip for actual compatibility and wide ranges of hardware for that and other obvious reasons and it ain’t close.It also has a loooooooooot more I/O than apple provides.
Those are synonymous in a cluster of their own these days with a wide range of implementations. Apple’s E cores have A7x IPC and can clock to upper 2GHz maybe even 3 iirc. MediaTek uses X4s as mid or upper E cores.They are not E cores but legit Mid cores now.
Unless it’s a lot more than has ever been on a laptop, that’s being melodramatic. It’s common and easy to find laptops with more I/O than MacBooks, but a loooooooooot more?It also has a loooooooooot more I/O than apple provides.
No, LNL has actually usable number of display outs, twice the TBT4 roots and moar USB.that’s being melodramatic
It's the good old PCH more or less.A "lot" in the context of a 45mm2 ancillary die for that specific purpose
No, LNL has actually usable number of display outs, twice the TBT4 roots and moar USB.
Apple mainstream tablet part limits you to 2 displays. garbage.
It's the good old PCH more or less.
Looking forward to reading that book whenever you publish it!One day will write a book and talk about the journey.
They don't need to match Apple, they need to match the leader. It grabs the attention of the press, so it grabs consumer eye balls. A company like QC needs this perception to charge a premium for their products, a company like Microsoft needs this perception because they can't win at making the better OS.
Last time they tried to enter the PC market, their name alone wasn't worth much.Qualcomm doesn't need a performance lead to charge a premium. They (like Intel) believe their name alone on a product allows them to charge a premium.
Yes, modem company thinks too highly of themselves.Qualcomm doesn't need a performance lead to charge a premium. They (like Intel) believe their name alone on a product allows them to charge a premium.
They at least tried selling what they're actually good at (modems).Last time they tried to enter the PC market, their name alone wasn't worth much.
Doug I think your cynicism on this is past overdue for a change of perspective and a correction as well. They’re not charging a crazy premium for what you’re getting which is — at the lowest end — a chip with at least M1 ST for the 10C Plus, similar battery life and much more MT than M1/2 or Hawk Point and likely more than Lunar as well. Or for the others parts, the same claims except being about M2 + 10-15% on ST with MT to keep a reasonable (they’ll lose ofc but how much and which benchmark) margin with Strix and still blow out Lunar.Qualcomm doesn't need a performance lead to charge a premium. They (like Intel) believe their name alone on a product allows them to charge a premium.
Qualcomm's engineering and bean counting are always in conflict. That's true everywhere of course, but what I heard from those working on the inside in the past at least it was and probably still is more true there.
So while the architects might have a plan to beat Apple, design E cores, and so forth that doesn't necessarily mean their management is willing or able provide them all the resources they would like. Just like x86 is king at Intel and no matter what they might have claimed other architectures were always given a sort of second tier status, the same is true at Qualcomm with cellular.
that's why KRK exists rofl.If the comarison is to AMD, I am skeptical Strix Point will hit price points like the Plus or lower Elites will and Phoenix/Hawk Point are totally outmatched on battery life or just actually having good design wins like these save Pavilion Plus at least in North America especially.
Figured this was next. We’ll see what power and battery looks like. But rofl AMD’s big issue is they blow at partnerships and distribution for ultrabooks, unless it’s gaming laptops or Asus in Asia. I thought it had improved but tbh it’s still not great!that's why KRK exists rofl.
Well they tried before with things like ThinkPad Z.But rofl AMD’s big issue is they blow at partnerships and distribution for ultrabooks
You've already seen just how much strix out there exists half a day before AMD keynote actual.Maybe that changes with Zen 5 but meh, I’ll believe it when I see it.
Incorrect. It’s the PS99, 16GB is PS96 it seems, and Asus explicitly said their SKUs go up to 32GB. Costco just got the top model and at better pricing. You can check yourself.I wouldn't trust that costco marketing. All the other stores are selling the same model for 16GB at the same price. I suspect they screwed up the specs on their website
Agreed here. Those were good. I hope they get a Kraken win in something like a Pavilion Plus successor (which would be Omnibook now) and pull it off at major retail. That and a Slim 7 + Zenbook (NO DGPU FFS) with it or Strix.Well they tried before with things like ThinkPad Z.
Good machines, sold badly. Basically they need more channel push for that.
I do buy it will be better than Phoenix by a mile, yes. It’s going to be good. Timing and specifics are key though (e.g. by country and other vendor channels).You've already seen just how much strix out there exists half a day before AMD keynote actual.
Things can only go up!
You just know ASUS gonna stick a 35W chopped green abortion in there to make people suffer just that extra bit. In usable DRAM capacity SKUs at least.That and a Slim 7 + Zenbook (NO DGPU FFS) with it or Strix.
CES'25 is where they dump the rest of the lineup (your fire ranges and halos and krakens yaddayadda).When is Krk coming?
You know what my mom always told me?Doug I think your cynicism on this is past overdue for a change of perspective and a correction as well. They’re not charging a crazy premium for what you’re getting which is — at the lowest end — a chip with at least M1 ST for the 10C Plus, similar battery life and much more MT than M1/2 or Hawk Point and likely more than Lunar as well. Or for the others parts, the same claims except being about M2 + 10-15% on ST with MT to keep a reasonable (they’ll lose ofc but how much and which benchmark) margin with Strix and still blow out Lunar.
The battery life and responsiveness is obviously going to be the kicker and the fact that Qualcomm is actually targeting ultrabooks and shipping product to a variety of major OEMs and vendors at their target market is really underrated.
And now that they’re here I can also respond to our earlier convo about RAM (we disagreed on pricing, you suggested based on the past Qualcomm would be worse than or as bad as Apple which I said was wrong. (As as an aside, we did learn it is not on-package and that’s not needed to blow AMD and Intel out on battery life - which is also extremely predictable, most of your gains are DDR to LPDDR, — on-package is more about area).
Anyway, unlike AMD — where we didn’t see a single Zenbook 13/14 with Phoenix in North America and Lenovo was more dGPU-heavy and a QHD+ or better display available at BestBuy (a major American retailer) — Qualcomm right off the bat has these available for pre-order and shipping on launch:
1. XPS 13 with the X Elite and a 16/512 + tandem OLED panel. $1499.
2. The Inspiron Plus with an X Plus 16GB/512GB and QHD 400 nit panel. $1099 (there’s your M2/3 competitor for kids going back to school btw).
3. Lenovo Yoga with an X Elite (no boost) 7X 14 16/512 with 3K, 500 nit 90Hz OLED for $1199.
4. Samsung’s Galaxy Book Edge with a 4GHz X Elite in two display sizes, both high res OLED, — 16/512GB — ranges from $1349 to $1449.
5. And the HP Omnibook with an X Elite (3.4GHz) at 1199, which is 16/1TB and has a 2.2K 300-nit display. Not great on the display tbh, though it’s cheaper from HP. This one does suck.
The sell is really Apple-tier battery life while at least matching their competitors on performance, without the lack of choice and BS from Apple. That’s why you see everyone from YouTube normies to complete Framework neckbeards excited about it, IMO
And RE: RAM and storage: Apple’s selling M2 MacBooks for:
$1099 with 8/256. And the marginal upgrade is still + 200 for 8 more and + 200 for 256 more. And yes, they go on sale — but guess what, I guarantee you these will too, lol, be it at Best Buy or from the OEMs.
Now, Microsoft is greedy, that is true, but Qualcomm and their OEMs are not really pulling anything out of the ordinary here other than a premium for the chips.
Another case in point:
View attachment 100258
This RAM/Storage config and OLED display for $1299 would never happen from Apple, lol, and it’s better RAM and SSDs. People miss this about LPDDR and soldiered stuff: yes it’s worse than buying it on your own if you even could, but competition will force much better pricing. And that’s exactly what we see in the Android and Windows world vs Apple. It was all very predictable.
Anyway, would you rather have that base M2 MacBook or an Inspiron Plus with a similar display, twice the RAM and 33% more bandwidth, twice the storage, more MT and just barely less ST than an M2? And do you think Lunar Lake is going to be able to hit that price point without hurting Intel’s wallet? (No)
If the comarison is to AMD, I am skeptical Strix Point will hit price points like the Plus or lower Elites will and Phoenix/Hawk Point are totally outmatched on battery life or just actually having good design wins like these save Pavilion Plus at least in North America especially.
They’re actually in a fairly decent position out of the gate IMO due to a unique combo of pricing, battery life and performance, design wins that fit their target market here, and distribution channels (from Dell et. Al online and multiple OEMs to having Best Buy launches from 5-6 brands in that sweet entry premium spot).
The problem is indeed WoA teething more than anything.