Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

[Nothingness]

I see no 2 in 1s? Actual Yoga, Yoga 7 14 (at least that is what it's called in EU, Lenovo has moronic naming strategy)?

Isn't the ASUS ProArt PZ13 @FlameTail mentioned a 2-in-1?

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

Actually I meant convertible.

 

[FlameTail]

Okay, I just finished watching the Qualcomm Computex Keynote.

Here are the highlights, IMO;


NPU efficiency

Solid Web browser performance

Gaming

Testing 1200+ games

Partners


Overall, it was a okay-ish keynote. Definitely better than Nvidia's 2 hour slog. They could have done it more concisely (several points were mentioned repeatedly), and they blew 20 extra minutes past their allocated 60 minutes. Still, it was Christiano Amon's first Computex Keynote, and I hope we see better and more exciting keynotes in the years to come.

Nice shoes, btw

 

[FlameTail]

Qualcomm appears to be fine. Zen5 isn't the ST performance slayer it was hyped up to be.

 

[Nothingness]

View attachment 100342
Qualcomm appears to be fine. Zen5 isn't the ST performance slayer it was hyped up to be.

What a poor sad slide: no mention of models of M3 and Snapdragon; and I didn't know Apple was into making Copilot+ PC.

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

Disappointed that they haven't showed Purwa yet. Guessing we'll either see it at Snap Event in October or CES 25.

Okay, I just finished watching the Qualcomm Computex Keynote.

Here are the highlights, IMO;


NPU efficiency
View attachment 100335
Solid Web browser performance
View attachment 100336
Gaming
View attachment 100337
Testing 1200+ games
View attachment 100338
Partners
View attachment 100339

Overall, it was a okay-ish keynote. Definitely better than Nvidia's 2 hour slog. They could have done it more concisely (several points were mentioned repeatedly), and they blew 20 extra minutes past their allocated 60 minutes. Still, it was Christiano Amon's first Computex Keynote, and I hope we see better and more exciting keynotes in the years to come.

Nice shoes, btw
View attachment 100340

Really interested to see how they'll handle gaming as that's a big hurdle to the emulation and also driver maturity.

 

[FlameTail]

Disappointed that they haven't showed Purwa yet. Guessing we'll either see it at Snap Event in October or CES 25.

Gotta be Snap Summit 2024 in Oct.

 

[gdansk]

View attachment 100342
Qualcomm appears to be fine. Zen5 isn't the ST performance slayer it was hyped up to be.

They're both N4P with similar 1T performance, similar TDP and similar core counts.
RISC architecture was going to change everything not end up in the same spot as x86 at the same time.

 

[FlameTail]

They're both N4P with similar 1T performance, similar TDP and similar core counts.

TDP isn't really a clear metric for comparison.

In terms of raw power consumption and performance-per-watt, I believe X Elite will still be better than Strix.

RISC architecture was going to change everything not end up in the same spot as x86 at the same time.

ARM seems to be doing fine. Apple has the undisputed ST performance leadership. Cortex X925 brought 17% YoY IPC improvement (1% more than what AMD achieved in 2 years with Zen5, fwiw) and Oryon V1 seems to be in the same ballpark as X925, bur it's virtue being that it's already shipping in laptops, while X925 might take 6-12 months from now, to debut in PCs.

 

[gdansk]

TDP isn't really a clear metric for comparison.

In terms of raw power consumption and perfoemance-per-watt, I believe X Elite will still be better than Strix.

It better have some power advantage. And 12% faster memory too.

But Strix has its advantages too (like an 11 tflops GPU and SMT) and no possible emulation handicap.

 

[Tup3x]

If I remember correctly he was hinting about different form factors so I guess we'll see desktop products too. That probably means mini-PCs or NUCs but even that would be better than just laptops.

View attachment 100342
Qualcomm appears to be fine. Zen5 isn't the ST performance slayer it was hyped up to be.

Probably vs. the slowest X Elite but in any case, the difference is so small that the one who has best efficiency wins in my book.

 

[SpudLobby]

They're both N4P with similar 1T performance, similar TDP and similar core counts.
RISC architecture was going to change everything not end up in the same spot as x86 at the same time.

Wait until you see Zen 5’s power curves on ST.

And the battery life. The fact that they’re not talking about it and that they need 25% more frequency to do so does not bode well.

 

[FlameTail]

Wait until you see Zen 5’s power curves on ST.

And the battery life. The fact that they’re not talking about it and that they need 25% more frequency to do so does not bode well.

That 50 TOPS NPU on Strix is interesting. It apparently supports BF16, something Qualcomm's 45 TOPS NPU doesn't?

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

QCOM promised that we'll see Snap X Elite in more form factors like PC AIO and Tablets. So I guess the mythical fanless Snap X devices will come in the form of tablets? Or are these going to be fanned too?

If QCOM is able to slot it into fanless tablets, it will make for a nice comparison between Lunar Lake 2X4(9W) and Snap X.

 

[SpudLobby]

That 50 TOPS NPU on Strix is interesting. It apparently supports BF16, something Qualcomm's 45 TOPS NPU doesn't?

Yeah probably. Honestly who cares lol. I think local AI is useful contra some others, but also like this isn’t going to make a world of a diff.

I do think Xilinx and probably Apple’s NPUs are better from a programming/software and architecture perspective. Qualcomm’s VLIW thing is probably part of how they get their energy lead with the NPU, but unclear to me how well this is abstracted with their software stack.

On the other hand it has some support from third parties already and DirectML will take care of this for them so.

But not too passionate about NPU arch wars. I think QC, AMD, Apple all have good setups.

 

[gdansk]

QCOM promised that we'll see Snap X Elite in more form factors like PC AIO and Tablets. So I guess the mythical fanless Snap X devices will come in the form of tablets? Or are these going to be fanned too?

If QCOM is able to slot it into fanless tablets, it will make for a nice comparison between Lunar Lake 2X4(9W) and Snap X.

Only tablet so far is Surface Pro. And it has a fan (while even some Intel ones didn't).

 

[Ghostsonplanets]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1797663290958770595

Only tablet so far is Surface Pro. And it has a fan (while even some Intel ones didn't).

There goes my fanless hope I guess. So it's really only Lunar Lake aiming at the fanless Macbook Air Mx market.

 

[FlameTail]

One thing I have to give Qualcomm props for is that they had all their OEM partners on stage during today's Computex keynote. It doesn't mean much for us, but it means a lot for those OEMs. I think Qualcomm certainly made their OEM partners happy.

This is in the context of the Microsoft Copilot event held last month, where they announced the Copilot+ PCs. They only talked about their own in-house Surface Laptop/Surface Pro, and in the very last minute they showed off a table with the devices from other OEMs. The OEMs were not happy, and supposedly even felt insulted (?). Source: PCWorld.

 

[FlameTail]

If you read the footnotes, they used the 4.0 GHz Snapdragon X Elite X1E-80-100 SKU in the Surface Laptop 15 for this benchmark.

The interesting thing is that, it means Qualcomm's top end 4.2 GHz (which is 5% faster than the 4.0 GHz) should have identical ST GB6 to Strix Point.

Yeah, Qualcomm's fine.

 

[SpudLobby]

View attachment 100354
If you read the footnotes, they used the 4.0 GHz Snapdragon X Elite X1E-80-100 SKU in the Surface Laptop 15 for this benchmark.

The interesting thing is that, it means Qualcomm's top end 4.2 GHz (which is 5% faster than the 4.0 GHz) should have identical ST GB6 to Strix Point.

Yeah, Qualcomm's fine.

Yea, I said this up the thread I think.

But I again think you are too picky about the details on peak perf. It would be much more concerning for QC if AMD were matching their efficiency at the same perf, and battery life, and design wins.

In that case QC would be pointless. But it seemed more like we were heading for a middle ground IMO than you gave it credit for.

But now the one thing AMD was going to have is over, lol.

 

[Panino Manino]

View attachment 100354
If you read the footnotes, they used the 4.0 GHz Snapdragon X Elite X1E-80-100 SKU in the Surface Laptop 15 for this benchmark.

The interesting thing is that, it means Qualcomm's top end 4.2 GHz (which is 5% faster than the 4.0 GHz) should have identical ST GB6 to Strix Point.

Yeah, Qualcomm's fine.

And I noticed this slide from AMD: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/21419/AMD COMPUTEX CLIENT PRESS DECK-01-01 (36).png



Your chip has the advantage of not needing emulation, and while running native is only that faster than your competition hindered by emulation?
Not good right?

 

[SarahKerrigan]

And I noticed this slide from AMD: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/21419/AMD COMPUTEX CLIENT PRESS DECK-01-01 (36).png

View attachment 100357

Your chip has the advantage of not needing emulation, and while running native is only that faster than your competition hindered by emulation?
Not good right?

I believe all four of those bechmarks have ARM native ports - GB6 and Cinenbench do, at least.

 

[gdansk]

And I noticed this slide from AMD: https://images.anandtech.com/doci/21419/AMD COMPUTEX CLIENT PRESS DECK-01-01 (36).png

View attachment 100357

Your chip has the advantage of not needing emulation, and while running native is only that faster than your competition hindered by emulation?
Not good right?

All of those have ARM64 binaries... so no

 

[FlameTail]

One thing I have to give Qualcomm props for is that they had all their OEM partners on stage during today's Computex keynote. It doesn't mean much for us, but it means a lot for those OEMs. I think Qualcomm certainly made their OEM partners happy.

Look at this glorious picture:

 

[trivik12]

Key point to note is X Elite/X Plus are releasing on 18th and BestBuy already has 21 laptops for sale. AMD new launches takes ages to ramp up as seen for Phoenix or Hawk Point. That is already a huge win for Qualcomm.

I hope that changes for Strix Point. I already see one strix point laptop listed for sale.