Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

[TwistedAndy]

I think people are being a bit too negative again.
It's a solid starting point for future iterations. Real world battery life (i.e. not Cinebenchod) and web browser performance look good. Not revolutionary and that's OK.

That's because of missed expectations. A lot of people, for some reason, think that using ARM ensures high performance and efficiency compared to x86. Also, Qualcomm has made a lot of bold claims.

In general, Qualcomm X Elite is a pretty good product, but it needs to mature to compete with Intel and AMD. On the other side, it looks pretty fun for developers and engineers who want to do some experiments and try something new.

 

[SpudLobby]

Oh you've entered me-at-RDNA3-launch mode.
Hello there.

lmfao

 

[SpudLobby]

Well, they did fix RDNA3, just in e2400 and then 3.5 parts. but the point still stands.

8g4 soon(tm) so pepehands it up.

Look I don’t endorse Adroc much but I have to agree with him at Arm’s length on the analogy lol

By no means, Flametail, should you expect Purwa to suddenly have a full M1/2 perf/W in ST, lmao. It’s gonna be the same thing just cut-down die.

 

[FlameTail]

He's testing Cinebench right now. 50W power consumption for X Elite in Galaxy Book4 Edge 16.

He has said he is going to do an iso-chassis comparison between the Snapdragon and AMD versions of the Lenovo Yoga Slim 7x.

He has said he'll try to also run CAD software, virtual machines, Linux etc... etc...

Also he bought all the devices himself. They were not sent by OEMs/Microsoft. So it's not a sponsored review/video.

This is a good reviewer.

 

[SpudLobby]

I think people are being a bit too negative again.
It's a solid starting point for future iterations. Real world battery life (i.e. not Cinebenchod) and web browser performance look good. Not revolutionary and that's OK.

GPU

oh this is my position. It’s a solid foundation, but it’s late and I imagine some stuff went suboptimal just due to the hectic BS going on at QC in getting this to market and being sued, plausible pmic stupidity. Still landed a decent part but not enough to make it an easy choice with emulation and GPU is a joke.

Like does anyone think 3 clusters of actual Firestorm at 3.2 ish GHz in a 128b bus and 8mb slc would have same perf/W? I am skeptical of that lmao, those really were dropping off at 5.5-6W total.

(Such a part would be better than this, albeit less peak ST. But similar to 3.4GHz part and more efficient)

 

[Doug S]

I wonder what "test platform" Apple released to the public? M1 was perfect the moment it came out and aged like fine wine (excluding the 8GB configs).

Nope their first iteration was on point but those are benefits of owning the whole stack.

I really hope that Lunar Lake is not a one time thing. It would keep Apple/QC on their toes.

Did you forget the Mac Mini with A12Z they released to developers a year before M1 came out? Not to mention all the internal dogfooding they must have done on that in the years before.

Someday it would be interesting to read a history of Apple Silicon and find out just how long ago they began planning that transition.

 

[Hitman928]

He's testing Cinebench right now. 50W power consumption for X Elite in Galaxy Book4 Edge 16.

He has said he is going to do an iso-chassis comparison between the Snapdragon and AMD versions of the Lenovo Yoga Slim 7x.

He has said he'll try to also run CAD software, virtual machines, Linux etc... etc...

Also he bought all the devices himself. They were not sent by OEMs/Microsoft. So it's not a sponsored review/video.

This is a good reviewer.

55 W at the chasis power port with the screen on. Not sure what type of screen, but seems to be more than the 35 W device TDP (updated from the original 23 W) that QC gave to notebookcheck. Notebookcheck did say they think that the actual power consumption may exceed the quoted TDP for a certain duration (essentially an all core boost) so maybe that is what they are seeing.

 

[FlameTail]

What do you guys think about that Pluton stuff in the Semiaccurate article?

 

[SarahKerrigan]

What do you guys think about that Pluton stuff in the Semiaccurate article?

I'm uncomfortable with it, but then, I was uncomfortable with the ME and PSP too.

Even aside from the software-freedom aspects, which are important to me but I don't expect to matter to anyone else, there's a concerning lack of documentation for a category of IPs that are supposed to be able to act as a root of trust and have proven in the past to be swiss cheese.

Essentially, trust is earned. Transparency is part of how.

Edited to add: I thought that the complaints about "it's working in software!" were weird and sorta dumb. Security MCUs are a whole category of product. Smartcards exist. Lots of things that handle secrets are not doing so with some kind of magic fixed-function hardware block.

 

[Joe NYC]

What do you guys think about that Pluton stuff in the Semiaccurate article?

I would rather not have it than have it. But reading the latest piece on it, it seems that disabling TPM would prevent Pluton from starting (if I am understanding it currently).

I disabled the TPM on my new home PC just as a Windows 11 upgrade defense mechanism, but in either case, I don't think there is Pludon in AMD desktop CPUs, only in notebook CPUs - starting from Rembrandt. So this is going to be AMD's 3rd generation of laptop CPUs with Pluton.

 

[FlameTail]

Maybe QC should kick Microsoft/Windows to the curb, and partner with Google to push Linux.

Does nobody but Apple care about privacy/security?

 

[Doug S]

I would rather not have it than have it. But reading the latest piece on it, it seems that disabling TPM would prevent Pluton from starting (if I am understanding it currently).

I disabled the TPM on my new home PC just as a Windows 11 upgrade defense mechanism, but in either case, I don't think there is Pludon in AMD desktop CPUs, only in notebook CPUs - starting from Rembrandt. So this is going to be AMD's 3rd generation of laptop CPUs with Pluton.

But will it even be possible to run Windows 12 without the TPM? Knowing Microsoft, I'd bet against it.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Maybe QC should kick Microsoft/Windows to the curb, and partner with Google to push Linux.

Does nobody but Apple care about privacy/security?

It's a messy launch but GOOG is schizophrenic and thus incapable of any PC pushes.

 

[SarahKerrigan]

Maybe QC should kick Microsoft/Windows to the curb, and partner with Google to push Linux.

Does nobody but Apple care about privacy/security?

I think all the vendors care about privacy/security. They just define it in different ways than I do.

PSP, ME, Pluton, and even SGX are all attempts at doing essentially the same thing - keeping secrets in an enclave. It's just a harder problem than it appears, and occasionally runs up against what some users (myself included) view as trustworthy behavior by the machine.

 

[Joe NYC]

It's a messy launch but GOOG is schizophrenic and thus incapable of any PC pushes.

Strangely, the "78" SKU seems like a good Chromebook part.

Which is not exactly where Qualcomm intended to be.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Strangely, the "78" SKU seems like a good Chromebook part.

A good chromebook part is something with a goddamn modem which is what QC sold for years before 8cx g3.

 

[soresu]

I think all the vendors care about privacy/security. They just define it in different ways than I do.

PSP, ME, Pluton, and even SGX are all attempts at doing essentially the same thing - keeping secrets in an enclave. It's just a harder problem than it appears, and occasionally runs up against what some users (myself included) view as trustworthy behavior by the machine.

Pluton is essentially a standardised successor to PSP.

 

[gdansk]

I don't think a Chromebook needs 12 cores...

 

[adroc_thurston]

Pluton is essentially a standardised successor to PSP.

No, it sits right besides it.

 

[NTMBK]

Maybe QC should kick Microsoft/Windows to the curb, and partner with Google to push Linux.

Does nobody but Apple care about privacy/security?

If you care about privacy, don't partner with a company built on advertising revenue.

 

[FlameTail]

If you care about privacy, don't partner with a company built on advertising revenue.

Full open-source Linux then?

Upstreaming Linux kernel support for the Snapdragon X Elite

Latest SoC is getting traction on Windows-based laptops, and we’re also consistently upstreaming to mainline Linux. See areas of focus and try our Debian installer.

www.qualcomm.com

TUXEDO on ARM is coming - TUXEDO Computers

TUXEDO on ARM is coming: As you may have gathered from the relevant press over the last few days, we at TUXEDO Computers are working on an ARM notebook with a Snapdragon X Elite SoC from Qualcomm. The tension rises We know that many of you are eagerly ...

www.tuxedocomputers.com

 

[Joe NYC]

I don't think a Chromebook needs 12 cores...

It would be the Cadillac of Chrome Books.

 

[FlameTail]

Seems all the Surfaces have X1E-80

 

[poke01]

Did you forget the Mac Mini with A12Z they released to developers a year before M1 came out?

It wasn't a year before but 5 months before M1 launch. But yeah they did release a dev kit at wwdc june 2020 and M1 came out nov 2020.

 

[Hitman928]

He's testing Cinebench right now. 50W power consumption for X Elite in Galaxy Book4 Edge 16.

He has said he is going to do an iso-chassis comparison between the Snapdragon and AMD versions of the Lenovo Yoga Slim 7x.

He has said he'll try to also run CAD software, virtual machines, Linux etc... etc...

Also he bought all the devices himself. They were not sent by OEMs/Microsoft. So it's not a sponsored review/video.

This is a good reviewer.

I've been having this play in the background and it seems that he's having major issues with his WARM laptops downloading any kind of programming tools (VS, Github). It blocks any downloads of these tools, even after turning off the AV protections. So it seems like there's still some significant teething issues to work through if developer tools can't even be downloaded.