Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

[gdansk]

Cost depends on how much they can bin partially working parts, if they have SKUs that can use fewer CPU or GPU cores, less L3, etc. There's also going to be a crossover where making dies smaller increases per sq mm cost due to handling/testing/packaging overhead on more units. I have no idea where that crossover is but for a typical ~150 mm^2 laptop/desktop SoC it might make sense to break it into 2 or 3 pieces but does it make sense to break it into 8 or 12 pieces? I'm skeptical there.

I'm not sure how to respond here. I'm thinking Qualcomm should not pursue chiplets. They apparently (from the slides) get plenty of performance at the die sizes they are using now. With new nodes available and some more die area for future chips it should be enough to stay competitive and low enough cost even on N3. What do they gain from it? If they want more cores and more GPU/NPU performance they can simply make a bigger die beyond the 200mm² limit I suggested. But it had better be good - because that's gonna be more expensive than Intel and AMD parts (Qualcomm margins lol).

Disaggregation seems anti-thetical to Snapdragon. But who knows. Maybe they link two together for even more performance.

 

[FlameTail]

Because there's no native arm build, not a mistery

Apple's relationship with Windows On ARM is interesting. It's almost as if they don't acknowledge it's existence.

For one, they did not work with Microsoft to bring Windows 11 ARM via Boot camp to their Apple Silicon Macs. Now they haven't released a WoA version of their apps for Windows.

 

[FlameTail]

I'm not sure how to respond here. I'm thinking Qualcomm should not pursue chiplets. They apparently (from the slides) get plenty of performance at the die sizes they are using now. With new nodes available and some more die area for future chips it should be enough to stay competitive and low enough cost even on N3. What do they gain from it? If they want more cores and more GPU/NPU performance they can simply make a bigger die beyond the 200mm² limit I suggested. But it had better be good - because that's gonna be more expensive than Intel and AMD parts (Qualcomm margins lol).

Disaggregation seems anti-thetical to Snapdragon. But who knows. Maybe they link two together for even more performance.

Yes, the X Elite at a ~170 mm² seems pretty area efficient.

CPU: 👍🏻
NPU: 👍🏻
GPU: 🤔

But I'll wait till we have the die shots, to pass final judgement on X Elite's area efficiency. There is something funky going on with it's iGPU, which is consuming 4x the power of 8G2 iGPU while having 2x the performance.

 

[SteinFG]

Apple's relationship with Windows On ARM is interesting. It's almost as if they don't acknowledge it's existence.

For one, they did not work with Microsoft to bring Windows 11 ARM via Boot camp to their Apple Silicon Macs. Now they haven't released a WoA version of their apps for Windows.

Practically speaking woa doesn't exist. Appleisn't obligated to make software for every niche OS

 

[Doug S]

Apple's relationship with Windows On ARM is interesting. It's almost as if they don't acknowledge it's existence.

For one, they did not work with Microsoft to bring Windows 11 ARM via Boot camp to their Apple Silicon Macs. Now they haven't released a WoA version of their apps for Windows.

Apple doesn't have any choice for the moment, since Microsoft has an exclusive deal with Qualcomm.

Not that I think Apple will think it is worthwhile to write Windows drivers for their custom GPU even after the Qualcomm exclusive expires, given how small the audience of people who want to run Windows native on their AS Mac would be versus those who will be fine running it in a VM (or the far larger number who don't care about running Windows at all) When they were using ATI/AMD GPUs in their x86 Macs that wasn't an issue, because they didn't have to write and support the drivers.

 

[FlameTail]

I'm not sure how to respond here. I'm thinking Qualcomm should not pursue chiplets. They apparently (from the slides) get plenty of performance at the die sizes they are using now. With new nodes available and some more die area for future chips it should be enough to stay competitive and low enough cost even on N3. What do they gain from it? If they want more cores and more GPU/NPU performance they can simply make a bigger die beyond the 200mm² limit I suggested. But it had better be good - because that's gonna be more expensive than Intel and AMD parts (Qualcomm margins lol).

Disaggregation seems anti-thetical to Snapdragon. But who knows. Maybe they link two together for even more performance.

I'd like them to make a Strix Halo/Mx Pro type part with a 256 bit bus and beefier GPU, for ~300 mm².

 

[gdansk]

I'd like them to make a Strix Halo/Mx Pro type part with a 256 bit bus and beefier GPU, for ~300 mm².

And how much do you want the laptops using this chip to cost?

 

[Tup3x]

I'd like them to make a Strix Halo/Mx Pro type part with a 256 bit bus and beefier GPU, for ~300 mm².

Well, I hope that NVIDIA would do that eventually. Not necessarily for laptops but mini PCs, ITX and compact desktops.

 

[moinmoin]

Not necessarily for laptops but mini PCs, ITX and compact desktops.

Not sure but I'd expect premium laptops to be both higher margin and bigger markets than the latter three.

 

[FlameTail]

And how much do you want the laptops using this chip to cost?

Similar or slightly higher than ones with Strix Halo. Is that unrealistic?

 

[gdansk]

Similar or slightly higher than ones with Strix Halo. Is that unrealistic?

It's Qualcomm. The Qualcomm used to near-monopoly pricing. But we'll get to see if they ever bother to make such a part (apparently not 1st gen anyway).

 

[FlameTail]

It's Qualcomm. The Qualcomm used to near-monopoly pricing.

mmmm

But we'll get to see if they ever bother to make such a part

It really depends on what kind of customer they are going for.

The 1st gen X Elite is squarely aimed at "everyday users". Not gamers or professionals- who would benefit from a strong GPU.

(apparently not 1st gen anyway).

Yeah it doesn't make sense to do it in the first gen.

 

[moinmoin]

The 1st gen X Elite is squarely aimed at "everyday users". Not gamers or professionals- who would benefit from a strong GPU.

Yeah it doesn't make sense to do it in the first gen.

So no halo parts. In PC market terms that means Qc gave up even trying.

 

[FlameTail]

In PC market terms that means Qc gave up even trying.

What

 

[moinmoin]

What

Look at e.g. the Radeon gens RDNA3 and supposedly also RDNA4 with no halo parts rivalling Nvidia's top products. Disappointment abound. You think PC users not already fans of Qualcomm but fairly interested in tech will treat Qualcomm any more favourably if it doesn't beat contemporary tech in the very space it wants to compete in?

 

[FlameTail]

Look at e.g. the Radeon gens RDNA3 and supposedly also RDNA4 with no halo parts rivalling Nvidia's top products. Disappointment abound. You think PC users not already fans of Qualcomm but fairly interested in tech will treat Qualcomm any more favourably if it doesn't beat contemporary tech in the very space it wants to compete in?

That argument is missing the mark.

I have explained this in a previous page, as to why Qualcomm is targeting "everyday users" with the first generation. It is a strategic move.

 

[moinmoin]

I have explained this in a previous page, as to why Qualcomm is targeting "everyday users" with the first generation. It is a strategic move.

lol, of course it's a "strategic move". If you would publicly communicate your product's failure to compete in the market it's supposed to compete in before the product even launches you fail at your job. Doesn't change that Qualcomm will have to fight quite the uphill battle to compete in the PC space.

 

[Tup3x]

It's good enough for almost everything else other than gaming. Business users, web devs etc. would be quite happy with the performance. In fact, it would offer pretty much top tier performance.

 

[poke01]

It's good enough for almost everything else other than gaming

Not for Enterprise and busniess applications that are only x86 either. Gaming is also a big consumer area where ARM is lacking in PC.

We need see how Qualcomms GPU drivers perfrom.

 

[Tup3x]

Not for Enterprise and busniess applications that are only x86 either. Gaming is also a big consumer area where ARM is lacking in PC.

We need see how Qualcomms GPU drivers perfrom.

Many businesses apps just have to run and they would be just fine. As long as they don't rely on (software) drivers.

 

[FlameTail]

Qualcomm reveals 'Sound of Snapdragon' audio logo — similar to Intel's Jingle, Netflix's 'ta-dum'

The firm explains why it has decided to make a sonic logo now.

www.tomshardware.com

Snapdragon Audio Logo!

sounds interesting!

What do you guys think?

 

[moinmoin]

I guess along that sound Qualcomm will enforce low frequency sound playback on all its systems, otherwise this is going to sound like broken speakers.

 

[gdansk]

Qualcomm reveals 'Sound of Snapdragon' audio logo — similar to Intel's Jingle, Netflix's 'ta-dum'

The firm explains why it has decided to make a sonic logo now.

www.tomshardware.com

Snapdragon Audio Logo!

sounds interesting!

What do you guys think?

"It is easy to dismiss sonic logos as trivial marketing fluff" Yes, yes it is.
If I ever hear it again, it means I need to update my adblocker.

 

[FlameTail]

LOL. r/hardware didn't like this new sound at all.

 

[FlameTail]

Snapdragon Insiders Hub

Join the global community of Snapdragon Insiders for behind-the-scenes access, special invites and giveaways.

www.qualcomm.com

Is anybody here a Snapdragon Insider?

I think I should sign up...