Quality of hardware today

[saymyname]

It seems like lately I've been having to RMA or get warranty repair work done on an awfull lot of hardware.

I've lost 2 sets of Corsair memory, 1 set of crucial memory, 1 set of Patriot memory, 2 Antec PSUs, 1 Enermax PSU, one generic PSU, one DFI motherboard, a set of cheap logitech speakers, a 3200JD, a x800xl, and a x1900xt. This is all in the span of about 2 years at both my work and home. Most of it in the last year.

In the past I think I've lost a floppy drive, a hard drive every few years, a cd-rom drive after 5 years, and a 2x cd-burner. Nothing big. Not very often. Nothing to raise eyebrows. Only the Death Star really got to me. Maybe the HP burner that wouldn't work with WinXP 4 months after I bought it.

It's pretty much gotten to the point that with every purchase I make I have to RMA at least one component. Usually 2. It's made me rethink building PC's since time is money and some of the troubleshooting has been a real pain and waste of time. For work, I think I've resigned to the fact that I'd rather get a Dell. I shudder saying it....

Is it just me?

 

[MadBadger]

Originally posted by: saymyname
I'd rather get a Dell. I shudder saying it....

Is it just me?

I will forgive you for your sins.

I can't really speak to the topic, but this sentence solicited an audible groan from me right after reading it.

To answer your question, it's not just you and if you had that many bad experiences, I can totally see where you're coming from. Unless you get something else out of the deal (like it's your hobby or you want to learn more about building a computer) then why bother? It might be cheaper in the beginning to build your own system (and it might not, depending on what you want to use it for), but you might have to pay for some of that down the line with your own time trying to fix something.

Fixing problems can be an extremely time consuming process and when you get down to it, time is the most valuable commodity in life. Everybody only gets so much and nobody knows how much they've got. I don't mean to get philosophical here, but life really is short; I'm going to be sure that I spend it doing what I want to do. Which is why I usually spend more for quality goods when shopping to avoid future hassles. But not everyone has that luxury.

That's not to say that you won't have problems buying a pre-built of course (especially if it's a Dell), but when you do, at least you know that someone else is there to help you out when you need it.

My take: unless you get a kick out of doing this stuff or are financially motivated to do so, then I don't see the point of choosing to build your own system over buying a pre-built. I would not recommend a Dell though. If you do go Dell, make sure it's a decent hard drive and back all your data up. My brother learned the hard way. I told him not to buy a Dell. Of course he was lured in by some sale. Guess what? He lost his entire hard drive, lots of his research and a paper that he was working on. Dell didn't do anything for him there. Clearly, he should have backed that information up, but he didn't know any better (or he did, and just got lazy).

Anyways, I see where you're coming from.

Cheers. :beer:

edit - Typo

 

[stelleg151]

Dont think things are getting worse. Think you got unlucky. Pretty sure hardware is getting more reliable on the whole, its just you hear more stories because so many more people have them every day that the probability of getting bad hardware isnt dropping fast enough to counter the growing number of users, thus a net increase in number of failures and complaints.

 

[pkme2]

IMO, some components seem to last longer than others but sometimes there are exceptions.

Types of failures that I see are in quality of construction and the lack of computer maintenance.

Substandard materials found in cheaply made power supplies contribute to a whole range of problems. The Trickledown effect happens.

Power surges with no protective UPS with AVR causes computer burnouts, disasterous effects too.

Poor airflow and dust within vital computer areas cause heat buildup which leads to failures often.

AFAIK, computer viruses have caused more damage to computers than anything else.

So what's the point. Well we can't blame the hardware only for lack of quality in today's computers. A lot of other factors contribute also.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: saymyname
It seems like lately I've been having to RMA or get warranty repair work done on an awfull lot of hardware.

I've lost 2 sets of Corsair memory, 1 set of crucial memory, 1 set of Patriot memory, 2 Antec PSUs, 1 Enermax PSU, one generic PSU, one DFI motherboard, a set of cheap logitech speakers, a 3200JD, a x800xl, and a x1900xt. This is all in the span of about 2 years at both my work and home. Most of it in the last year.

In the past I think I've lost a floppy drive, a hard drive every few years, a cd-rom drive after 5 years, and a 2x cd-burner. Nothing big. Not very often. Nothing to raise eyebrows. Only the Death Star really got to me. Maybe the HP burner that wouldn't work with WinXP 4 months after I bought it.

It's pretty much gotten to the point that with every purchase I make I have to RMA at least one component. Usually 2. It's made me rethink building PC's since time is money and some of the troubleshooting has been a real pain and waste of time. For work, I think I've resigned to the fact that I'd rather get a Dell. I shudder saying it....

Is it just me?

I think you are on to something, in the past they used heavier PCBs, stainless steel back plates, and keyboards were built like tanks.

These days, they use paper thin steel for the PCI backplate covers, flimsy fans, scsi hdds no longer come standard (Commodore Amiga?), and keyboards are super flimsy. Old IBM XT's used heavy gauge sheet steel and strong plastics with a good solid design. If you can find an old PC chances are that it is still working like the day it was first made, but todays PC is built to fail so that you will need to replace it after a few years.

Overall, older computers used much higher quality materials and engineering. My 20 year old IBM keyboard that I am typing this message on is a testament to the fact that PC's of yesteryear were better made.

 

[AstroGuardian]

Wow people. What are you saying?

I run the largest computer and components store in the Republic of Macedonia.
I sell GigaByte, MSI, WesternDigital, Hitachi, Corsair, Kingmax, PQI,Thermaltake, AltecLansing and many products more. But don't have those kind of problems. I get maybe 2 motherboards, 1 disk, 1 vga card, 1 RAM module which are defective in a whole month and i sell over 200 pieces of each component a day. Which is low percent of RMA. But i always use Thermaltake towers and PSUs in our pre-built (i assemble them) computers. Also compatibility of components is important factor and not mentioning the factors you mentioned so far.

But i totaly agree that computers from the near past were built of much more quality components. It seems that my DTK keyborad which i have maybe 12-13 years is still working perfectly.

Have a nice day...

 

[Seekermeister]

My complaint is more about the fashion that some manufacturers support their products when they do have a problem, than the amount of problems themselves. Two items, that I bought very recently, were defective...one out of the box, and the other, three weeks later. In both cases, their tech support depts were unable to provide any solutions, and took no responsibility for the problems. I'm in the process of trying to get refunds for the purchase price of both, but it looks likely that I'm just stuck.

 

[Googer]

I remember in the past you used to get thick telephone book sized instruction manuals with your new pc. Often they would give you lessons on using the os and some intermediate programming lessons. You just don't get that kind of quality anymore.

 

[Ayah]

I think the production quality of the product improves but the visual quality degrades. Some new stuff is absolutely horrid to look at.

 

[Icepick]

What we have to remember is that the generally perceived life of a desktop computer is three years. The standard refresh cycle in large businesses is also three years. Manufacturers are building PCs to only last until the next refresh. If a computer is still usable after that time then it's a bonus. They don't need to have use thick steel plating to cover up an unused PCI slot for three years. In my opinion, the big OEMs such as Dell and HP understand this and incorporate as much corner-cutting as they can into the design. I believe that they engineer the computer around the needs of big business (with lowest cost being higher priority than quality) and modify the design to cheapen it a little to sell to the home user.

Both the average user and the person in charge of purchasing decisions for corporations is going to look at the bottom line only - and that is price. In most cases they don't even know what capcitors are, much less the benefits of quality ones over cheap ones.

The U.S. is and has been for the last 50 years a throw-away society. We buy things that we can use now with the knowledge that they will be discarded shortly when something better comes along. What's the point for a manufacturer to go the extra mile just to give us quality. You want quality? Make a trip to your local landfill. That's where you'll most of the "quality" built components from the last half of the century. That's where they all end up anyway.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Icepick
What we have to remember is that the generally perceived life of a desktop computer is three years. The standard refresh cycle in large businesses is also three years. Manufacturers are building PCs to only last until the next refresh. If a computer is still usable after that time then it's a bonus. They don't need to have use thick steel plating to cover up an unused PCI slot for three years. In my opinion, the big OEMs such as Dell and HP understand this and incorporate as much corner-cutting as they can into the design. I believe that they engineer the computer around the needs of big business (with lowest cost being higher priority than quality) and modify the design to cheapen it a little to sell to the home user.

Both the average user and the person in charge of purchasing decisions for corporations is going to look at the bottom line only - and that is price. In most cases they don't even know what capcitors are, much less the benefits of quality ones over cheap ones.

The U.S. is and has been for the last 50 years a throw-away society. We buy things that we can use now with the knowledge that they will be discarded shortly when something better comes along. What's the point for a manufacturer to go the extra mile just to give us quality. You want quality? Make a trip to your local landfill. That's where you'll most of the "quality" built components from the last half of the century. That's where they all end up anyway.

very true -- except for last . . . those components NEED to be recycled

 

[Maximilian]

They were probably built to higher quality due to the demand, today almost everyone has a pc, 10-15 years ago that wasent the case, so they build high quality things so people would want them. When people did want pc's they needed to satisfy that demand so they cut a few corners and have been doing that since. Yea i think that makes sense...

One thing on the plus side today is due to the increased computer usage theyve made them more resistant to people doing daft things. Like setting the PSU to the wrong voltage for their country, plugging the wrong psu wires into the wrong sockets, running the hard drive upside down (can be done today!) putting the cpu in the wrong way (dunno if that was ever possible but its a possibility it was) and running a cpu without the heatsink and fan! itll shut itsself off today. So theres plenty of features to save users from themselves or from unfortunate accidents/failures.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

A lot of people I know have issues with CD/DVD burners - they work great for 5-6 months and then start producing coasters 80% of the time. If that isn't a problem, they don't recognize bootable CDs. Or start sounding like meat grinders. Or will hang Explorer for 30 seconds as the disc spins up and down a few times.

Last year, 3 of my friends had issues with bad RAM sockets. Two Intel Motherboards and one Gigabyte.

Around 4 or 5 years ago, it was bad Hard Drives (Particularly Maxtor, back then the brand of choice for most Whitebox builders out here)

I have had great luck with all components...except Speakers & Headphones!

 

[EBH]

backin the day you paid more for the components, back in the day fewer people had computers

soooo.... yeh your gonna get less issues because it cost 2000$ for a ibm 486

...and they were not mass produceing parts as they are today

it is not cost effective to make the old school keyboards or heavy gauge steel chasis ect

same thing goes for TV's, those old school zenith tv's lasted for ever

i have had to only RMA once in the past 5 years, and thats cuase i picked an obscure product to try out

 

[slpaulson]

You've lost a ton of stuff.

If you don't have a good battery backup or surge protector, I think that would be one thing to look at.

 

[saymyname]

Originally posted by: cRazYdood
You've lost a ton of stuff.

If you don't have a good battery backup or surge protector, I think that would be one thing to look at.

I do use quality surge protectors and all of these losses have been in about 4 different locations so I don't think it's bad power.

A UPS might help but I doubt that's the cause of all these losses.

Then on top of all this you have shipping problems. I bought a x1900xt and it came broken in the box.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
A lot of people I know have issues with CD/DVD burners - they work great for 5-6 months and then start producing coasters 80% of the time. If that isn't a problem, they don't recognize bootable CDs. Or start sounding like meat grinders. Or will hang Explorer for 30 seconds as the disc spins up and down a few times.

Last year, 3 of my friends had issues with bad RAM sockets. Two Intel Motherboards and one Gigabyte.

Around 4 or 5 years ago, it was bad Hard Drives (Particularly Maxtor, back then the brand of choice for most Whitebox builders out here)

I have had great luck with all components...except Speakers & Headphones!

So true.

Find an old 1x, 2x, or 4x CD-ROM and take it apart. You will find that those things were built to last a long time. The material, design, and build quality was much higher than todays 52x special. If you need some sort of quick proof, inspect the cd trays; older drives had much sturdier trays than todays cd-rom/rw drives.

 

[Nocturnal]

I remember how Plextor's CDRW drives were like top notch, above everyone else. Then things just kinda fell apart. I still buy Plextors for that nostalgic affect lol.

 

[alent1234]

i've been building PC's for 10 years and the only things i have ever had die on me were a bunch of old HD's and one video card

these days everyone wants to buy the super duper "performance" Monster Cable version of RAM or whatever and they don't think about compatibility issues and then scream DOA and try to RMA it

My first build I spent 3 weeks working out bugs and making everything work. For a while I thought something broke, but in the end it was all id10t errors

back in the day i would spend a day troubleshooting a hard drive problem when all it was a jumper. i was in italy and didn't have the luxury of easy RMA's like a lot of resellers support now. i had to troubleshoot my problems. and until my current build i've always used whatever cheapo power supply i had without any problems. ever. suddenly i start reading about all these supposed problems caused by bad PSU's. even in italy on US Army barracks 125V or whatever crazy electricity they had and no surge protector i never had any problems

 

[saymyname]

Originally posted by: alent1234
i've been building PC's for 10 years and the only things i have ever had die on me were a bunch of old HD's and one video card

these days everyone wants to buy the super duper "performance" Monster Cable version of RAM or whatever and they don't think about compatibility issues and then scream DOA and try to RMA it

My first build I spent 3 weeks working out bugs and making everything work. For a while I thought something broke, but in the end it was all id10t errors

back in the day i would spend a day troubleshooting a hard drive problem when all it was a jumper. i was in italy and didn't have the luxury of easy RMA's like a lot of resellers support now. i had to troubleshoot my problems. and until my current build i've always used whatever cheapo power supply i had without any problems. ever. suddenly i start reading about all these supposed problems caused by bad PSU's. even in italy on US Army barracks 125V or whatever crazy electricity they had and no surge protector i never had any problems

I used to have to hike to work uphill and through the snow, both ways.



I've been building PC's for 9 years. You might have me beat but I really am seeing a difference.

Don't even get started on memory that's not compatible with a particular motherboard. That's just an Apple argument waiting to happen. :Q

 

[alent1234]

i had problems with RAM going back years

built a P3 933 back around 2001, random reboots for a few years that i thought were a bug in the creative labs drivers for windows 2000 that everyone knew about. used generic multiwave RAM in that box. one day bought some Crucial average RAM on a whim. reboots went away.

also seen some problems with Kingston and other generic RAM and HP servers

last year read complaints about AMD and some of the expensive RAM, but i don't think it's a big deal

 

[AgentJean]

Guess you never heard the phrase "They don't make em like they used to"
Why is it older washing machines lasted 10 - 15 years now the newer crap blows up in 5 years? So they can give you the red wood tree up your rear and get more money.

 

[imported_Imp]

I think it varies by Company and product type. My mobo is a POS that wasted countless hours over 3 months due to a bad SATA controller. Not only that, I had to ditch a perfect SATA HDD for an IDE to get it solved, so my expandability is now slightly effed. Also, my old DVD-RW started scratching and not reading disks after a month. The RMA is a POS too, it won't read half my DVDs and they sent me sn oem so the firmware can't be upgraded. Did I mention they sent me the wrong bezel colour after writing BLACK in bold on the RMA form. Thanks ASsRock and Lite-On:roll:. On the other hand, Nvidia and ATI have never failed me.

 

[alent1234]

used to use only Abit or Asus motherboards depending on who was the best at the moment

now i'm about 1 month into my first non-asus/abit and using an MSI. so far everything is OK and no problems

 

[Gannon]

Some things are better made, but I really doubt it's changed all that much. I've had so many hard disks fail on me over the years, and they always go before their warranties are up usually unless they are not used dayin and day out.

I can see you points in certain PC industry areas, like CD/DVD-ROMS are notorious for being made on the cheap because they are such a popular item, I bet if you bought a plextor you'd have a DVD-ROM drive that lasted a long while provided they aren't cheaping out and are truly justifying the higher price with better engineering.

My first CD Recorder cost me north of $600 and it still works and burns CD's (and can overburn cd's) just fine, its 4X Yamaha and just as heavy or heavier then a brick. Other drives are lighter and less sturdy IMHO.