Quantum Levitation

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ioni

Senior member
Aug 3, 2009
619
11
81
Can someone explain how it works upside down? If the superconductor changes surface currents to expel the magnetic field, how does it still cancel out the gravitational pull?

I don't get why he had to flip the table upside down in the first place. From what I read on wikipedia about superconductors (after seeing this vid), magnetic fields bend around them. So if you think of the magnetic field bending around it like grabbing it, then it makes sense that he could put the disk under the track and have it not fall.

But since magnetic fields go out in all directions, what was the reason for flipping the table? Couldn't he have also put it on the outside edge with the disc being perpendicular to the track like?
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,046
549
126
Holy shit, that is crazy.

Doesn't the princple only work because the object is close to absolute zero? But I would think the act of him simply touching the object would add enough body heat to make it not work anymore?
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
I don't get why he had to flip the table upside down in the first place. From what I read on wikipedia about superconductors (after seeing this vid), magnetic fields bend around them. So if you think of the magnetic field bending around it like grabbing it, then it makes sense that he could put the disk under the track and have it not fall.

But since magnetic fields go out in all directions, what was the reason for flipping the table? Couldn't he have also put it on the outside edge with the disc being perpendicular to the track like?

According to a few sites I've read, (here's one), some magnetic forces are allowed through due to the size of the wafer and account for the "quantum locking" seen in the video.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Holy shit, that is crazy.

Doesn't the princple only work because the object is close to absolute zero? But I would think the act of him simply touching the object would add enough body heat to make it not work anymore?

Naw, it's pretty cold and probably hurts his hands, but he's not imparting enough heat with his hands to change the heat index of that.

Also part of the reason it's floating is because the superconducting material is locked inside sapphire crystal substrate. The sapphire acts as an impurity and causes the flux tubes to become locked in place instead of moving as the electrical fields along the surface of the superconductor material try to force the fields away and out. This locking is why the item is able to maintain is rotational position after an outside force moves it. Least that is what I read about it.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
According to a few sites I've read, (here's one), some magnetic forces are allowed through due to the size of the wafer and account for the "quantum locking" seen in the video.

Yes and no. From what I read of this experiment, the sapphire substrate is forcing the same locking effect .So in essence it could be as big as a house as long as the sapphire was there and the locking would still occur because the sapphire is letting the magnetic field in and then the electric field at the surface of the superconductor tries to force it out but can't because it's stuck.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
Can someone explain how it works upside down? If the superconductor changes surface currents to expel the magnetic field, how does it still cancel out the gravitational pull?

I was a bit misleading in my last post because I focused on the problem with a ring of superconductor (in fact as we see in the video that the object is not a ring at all but a solid puck). I did this because a ring is usually the example that many students see when the first read up on superconductors (e.g. Feynman's lecture series). So the way that the expulsion of the magnetic field works is that the induced surface currents create their own magnetic field. This secondary field will work to cancel out the original magnetic field inside of the superconductor. However, outside of the superconductor there are no guarantees. So what happens is that the superconductor behaves as a magnet itself. This secondary magnetic field provides the repulsive and attractive force to keep the puck levitating in place.

A similar thing can be seen in electrostatics. If I have a conductive pith ball held on a string that is neutrally charged, I can induce a non-uniform surface charge on the ball by bringing into close proximity another charged object. The electric field from the charged object causes the charges on the pith ball to rearrange non-uniformily so that the pith's surface charge creates a secondary electric field that cancels out the applied field inside of the pith ball. The charge distribution looks like a dipole. That is, positive charges build up on one side of the ball while the negative charges build up on the opposite side. The collection of charges on the pith ball near the charged object are opposite to the net charge of the charged object. So these charges attract each other and the attraction can be strong enough that the pith ball moves towards the charged object, even though the pith ball still has no net charge.

Holy shit, that is crazy.

Doesn't the princple only work because the object is close to absolute zero? But I would think the act of him simply touching the object would add enough body heat to make it not work anymore?

Actually we now have a variety of what are called high temperature superconductors. They can achieve superconducting states using temperatures that are still very cold for us but are actually quite warm compared to the old superconductors that needed to be within a few degrees of absolute zero. Many of them can simply be cooled by liquid nitrogen which is only 77 Kelvin (-200 Centrigrad thereabouts). It still seems very cold but liquid nitrogen is cheap and easy to make. So much so that they now have industrial superconducting electrical transmission lines in use in some places in the US. These lines use liquid nitrogen for their cooling. So a high temperature superconductor, like the one that he is using, can be cooled using simple liquid nitrogen and still remain cold enough to operate despite momentary handling and exposure to room temperature.

According to a few sites I've read, (here's one), some magnetic forces are allowed through due to the size of the wafer and account for the "quantum locking" seen in the video.

Yes. I think that these "flux tubes" are similar to having a little superconducting rings. The flux through these tubes has to be quantized and maintained. So once we set the puck above the magnet, we lock in the flux in these tubes and the superconductor keeps itself at that position. It takes a decent perturbation to pull the superconductor out of the state (ie: pulling it up with your hand).
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
5,046
549
126
Actually we now have a variety of what are called high temperature superconductors. They can achieve superconducting states using temperatures that are still very cold for us but are actually quite warm compared to the old superconductors that needed to be within a few degrees of absolute zero. Many of them can simply be cooled by liquid nitrogen which is only 77 Kelvin (-200 Centrigrad thereabouts). It still seems very cold but liquid nitrogen is cheap and easy to make. So much so that they now have industrial superconducting electrical transmission lines in use in some places in the US. These lines use liquid nitrogen for their cooling. So a high temperature superconductor, like the one that he is using, can be cooled using simple liquid nitrogen and still remain cold enough to operate despite momentary handling and exposure to room temperature.
Very cool, I knew the SC of old weren't at absolute zero, I don't think that's possible (absence of energy) but we got close, and the SC I remember were somewhere around 10deg K of it I think?

But thats good to see they are able to do this at much "warmer" temperatures.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
How much resistance is there in this "locking" mechanism? By that, I mean how much strength is he applying to pull it out of a certain state or to move it around?

edit: And is there some limit that would result in gravity winning? Like if this was done with a 10 lb bowling ball upside down?
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
71
How much resistance is there in this "locking" mechanism? By that, I mean how much strength is he applying to pull it out of a certain state or to move it around?

edit: And is there some limit that would result in gravity winning? Like if this was done with a 10 lb bowling ball upside down?

It probably depends largely upon the saturation current of the superconductor. In a perfect superconductor, the induced currents would respond to any outside perturbation to create a magnetic field that would pull the superconductor back to its locked state. As long as the magnitude of the currents can be infinite, it should always stay locked. However, in reality a superconductor can only support so much current before it loses superconductivity. So if you exert a strong enough perturbation on the puck, it will not be able to produce enough current to oppose the perturbation (this would also have the momentary effect of dropping out of superconductivity which is what allows it to relock when the currents die down and it goes back to superconducting).

It may also depend on the physical size of these tubes as that would dictate the relative difference in the magnetic field strength between the allowed quantized flux levels. However, the scaling to the quantization is very very small and so I doubt that this would be a factor in practice.
 

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
Ah. I had assumed some idiot somewhere just started calling the frozen superconductor/magnet trick quantum levitation, simply to use the word quantum. Superconductor/magnets don't go upside down, gravity still works with that one.
 
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