Question about maximum lengths for CAT6 pigtails

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Hi guys,

I'm managing a network upgrade project right now and have a question about pigtail-type patch cords. My Ethernet contractor is telling me that the maximum allowable length for a CAT6 pigtail (molded male connector one side, bare wire other side) is 10 meters. Is this correct?

I see that Wirewerks (http://www.wirewerks.com/wp-content/uploads/mbc11008-en-a_rgb-1.pdf) sells CAT6 pigtails up to 50 feet long which are TIA CAT6 certified, so I have a feeling that my contractor is screwing with me a little. Can anyone chime in and hopefully point out somewhere in the CAT6 spec some references that show a particular length limit?
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,217
5,076
146
10 meters total in patch cables in a run. Why do you want pigtails, anyway? Camera installs?
 

seepy83

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2003
2,132
3
71
Just writing in to agree with skyking. Longer cables can "work", but they're out of spec.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,217
5,076
146
Whatever you choose to do is up to you.
My preference is to run solid wire as far as I can practically do so, punch it down.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Is it possible to get long pigtails in solid core? The other end of the pigtail needs to be punched down into a patch panel and I understand that punching down stranded wire is not recommended...

The reason why pigtails are needed is because we are connecting new network cabinets to existing network cabinets and the client wants to minimize the number of new connections (either punch-downs or plugs). The male plug would be plugged into 8P8C ports at the existing patch panel in the existing network cabinet, and the other end would be punched down into a new patch panel in the new network cabinet.

The method that the contractor is suggesting is that new patch panels be installed in both cabinets, and bulk solid core cable be punched down at both ends. Then, from each new patch panel, a patch cable is used to connect to either a switch (at the new cabinet) or the existing patch panel (in the existing cabinet).

Hopefully that helps, a diagram would obviously be better but I'm a little pressed for time right now.
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
9,190
755
126
Your contractor is right. Solid core cable in the walls, punched down to patch panels at both ends. Short stranded patch cables from the patch panels to the switches/devices.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,449
10,119
126
Your contractor is right. Solid core cable in the walls, punched down to patch panels at both ends. Short stranded patch cables from the patch panels to the switches/devices.

While I'm not a networking professional (I deal primarily with SOHO devices), I believe that the above is correct.
 

RadiclDreamer

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2004
8,622
40
91
Will it work? Most likely, will it be up to spec and give you one less thing to worry about down the road?

NO

Do it right if at all possible, lots of little concessions in network build out end up making a big mess over the years.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Your contractor is right. Solid core cable in the walls, punched down to patch panels at both ends. Short stranded patch cables from the patch panels to the switches/devices.
I understand that this is what usually should be done. But if I run solid core patch cables, plugged into a patch panel on one side and punched down into a patch panel on the other side, don't I eliminate one punch connection and one plug connection overall?

I can't see why my client's method wouldn't be superior, as long as we use solid core patch cables/pigtails.
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
9,190
755
126
I can't see why my client's method wouldn't be superior, as long as we use solid core patch cables/pigtails.

Simply because the method you described does not meet the specifications for Ethernet networks. You don't put RJ45 ends on solid core cable. Solid core goes to patch panels in centralized locations, and to wall plates at the end user locations.

What you described CAN be done, but it is certainly not superior to the proper method and could cause reliability issues on the network. It's about equivalent to pulling a fully loaded 40 foot semi trailer with a pickup truck. You can do it in an emergency when there are no other options available, but it is not a good idea.

Edit: It's an old cliché, but I feel it's appropriate here: "You can either do it right the first time, or you can go back and fix it later." Either way, you'll eventually end up doing it with solid core to the patch panels and stranded wire to the switches and user devices.
 
Last edited:

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Simply because the method you described does not meet the specifications for Ethernet networks.
Can you direct me to the clause in the relevant spec for this?

Not that I don't think you have ample experience or knowledge of networking, I just have to be extremely thorough while fact-checking. Thanks for the help.

EDIT: So I see that the standard says patch cords "should not" exceed 5 meters. The pigtail I speak of would probably qualify as "horizontal cabling", which must be terminated in jacks. I guess these two reasons would be why...
 
Last edited:

seepy83

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2003
2,132
3
71
Can you direct me to the clause in the relevant spec for this?

Not that I don't think you have ample experience or knowledge of networking, I just have to be extremely thorough while fact-checking. Thanks for the help.

http://www.csd.uoc.gr/~hy435/materi...lding Telecommunications Cabling Standard.pdf

Page 35
5.5.1 Intra and Interbuilding Distances
The length of the horizontal cabling for Category 6 cable supporting data
applications up to 250 MHz shall be limited to 90 m (295 ft). This distance
assumes a 5 mtr patch cord at each end. The original documentation contains
the chart describing the distances.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
Can you direct me to the clause in the relevant spec for this?

Not that I don't think you have ample experience or knowledge of networking, I just have to be extremely thorough while fact-checking. Thanks for the help.

EDIT: So I see that the standard says patch cords "should not" exceed 5 meters. The pigtail I speak of would probably qualify as "horizontal cabling", which must be terminated on a jack. I guess these two reasons would be why...

Available here:

https://global.ihs.com/doc_detail.cfm?item_s_key=00378460

Specifically the "structured cable" sections and looks like "Horizontal cabling" is what you need.

Third party's summary:

http://www.argo-contar.com/download/passive/ANSI-TIA_Standards.pdf

Page 5 has the basics
 
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azazel1024

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
901
2
76
I understand that this is what usually should be done. But if I run solid core patch cables, plugged into a patch panel on one side and punched down into a patch panel on the other side, don't I eliminate one punch connection and one plug connection overall?

I can't see why my client's method wouldn't be superior, as long as we use solid core patch cables/pigtails.

I don't have my wiring setup the right way, but that is the way I have mine done. Solid core Cat 5e/6 to punch down keystone jacks in my walls with crimps on the other end straight in to my switches at the top of my equipment rack in my basement storage room. Solid core is a little more of a pain to crimp than stranded, but it isn't that big a deal. The correct way would be a to a patch panel and then short patch cables to the switches, which I'll do at some point.

I was extremely space and cost constrained at the time that I did most of the initial wiring, and I've just run with it since as I've added new runs. Just dreading the weekend of cutting rj45's off and punching down to a patch panel. I'll do it...but not soon.

The spec was introduced as a basic "this is the meetable goal" and it is 90 meters of solid core wiring, punched down at each end with 5+5 meters of stranded wiring on either end to run to the network equipment. You CAN do more than this, crap, I've tested just putting crimp ends on most of a 500ft box of Cat5e, and it worked okay (I did see some Rx/Tx errors, but they were very low), that was easily >400ft, well beyond spec.

This is just like crash safety standards, you have a minimum to meet, many can exceed (that said, some claim Cat5e/6/etc. and do NOT meet the spec). The other issue is that some might exceed spec, but they aren't going to tell you (or don't know) just how far beyond spec the wire can manage, or it depends on the use case.

In a clean environment, a single Cat5e run, without EMI, etc might easily be able to do 500ft with some good NICs on either end (IE aren't "too low power") for a solid error free 1Gbps connection. Get that with iffier NICs, in a 9 wire bundle and crossing a bunch of power wiring and stuff and you might see errors stack up at 350ft.

Its all about "minimum standards".

If you overall wiring run is a lot less than 100 meters before retransmit, you can EASILY get away with a lot longer than 10 meters of total stranded cabling, just know that stranded cabling DOES have worse signal attenuation, I am not sure how much, but I'd assume you should figure that 10 meters of stranded is the equivelent to 20 meters of solid core and work from that assumption (I assume it is pessimistic enough).
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,989
10
81
Well guys, my client is going with the pigtail route. This company has a $5+ billion yearly revenue... not that has anything to do with networking.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
The money doesn't mean much. It typically comes down to some local guy who often doesn't know but can't look like he doesn't know demanding a substandard solution. Normally when this happens I mentioned "can't be certified, unable to warranty" and they change their minds, others simply don't care and end up taking the stance of "Why do it right when you can pay twice the price to fix it later."
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
9,190
755
126
That $5+ Billion revenue claim makes what they are doing even more silly. Who would risk missing that revenue for days (or weeks) fixing a problem that they could have easily avoided by doing it the right way the first time with only a VERY small extra cost?
 
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