Question about S-IPS technology..

[D4rkn3ss]

hi, i'm from brazil, i recently import from Dell US a 2007WFP, luckly came with a LG.Philips S-IPS RT803. is in perfect condition, i run some tests and no banding, flickering, bleeding and dead pixel, also i didn´t perceive any ghost in games.

the problem is, i post this monitor in a brazilian forum and the people there insist that a TN panel has better color quality and is best then a S-IPS, also say that a S-PVA is the best panel, say that i can't compare it with a S-IPS because S-PVA is a superior panel.
i insist in the quality of an S-IPS, gave them links to specialized websites and they still insist that a TN and a S-PVA panel is the best

so.. some of them respect Anandtech forums and i ask you guys to help me with this situation.

is TN and S-PVA better then a S-IPS panel? if it is, or not, then why?

sorry for bothering you all with this problem. i just cannot leave the situation like this and sorry for the poor english. thanks in advance

 

[BassBomb]

S-IPS is muhc better for color quality

TN is teh bottom of the pack

TN will have banding that cannot be fixed

8^6 colors VS 8^8 colors... i wonder whats better?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Either they don't know what they're talking about or else they're just trying to dupe you (maybe they're jealous?). Anyways, you got the good panel so let them argue all they want and be happy with your nice monitor.

 

[Lord Athlon]

S-IPS 8 bit >>>>>> TN 6 bit

End of the story

 

[D4rkn3ss]

they're not trying to dupe me, unhappyly some of them are "that" ignorant

and is not just me that acquired one 2007WFP, some other users also. this kind of discussion is happening in the oficial 2007WFP thread started by other users and i don't want them to be fooled by stupid people :|

and what about the S-PVA issue? is better that a S-IPS without ghost? i will post this thread there, at least they are not ignorant enough to reject Anandtech forums users replies, you guys have a good reputation everywhere

thanks

 

[JackBurton]

The 2007WFP is a great LCD.

 

[Avalon]

TN needs to burn in a fire

 

[D4rkn3ss]

indeed :thumbsup: :laugh:

by the way, is a 20.1" LG.Philips S-IPS better that a 20.1" Samsung S-PVA?

 

[AVP]

yes

 

[terentenet]

S-IPS has great colours, wide view angles. I wouldn't even consider the other (TN, S-PVA).
The only reason I'm not upgrading to 24" is that I can't find any 24" glossy S-IPS panel with good response time and low latency.
I'll just wait for NEC 24WGMX2

 

[D4rkn3ss]

someone can explain to me why a S-IPS is better that a S-PVA?

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: D4rkn3ss
someone can explain to me why a S-IPS is better that a S-PVA?

Viewing angles, plain and simple. PVA is very harsh in this regard. While they may be true 8 bit panels, you can see color shift while you're sitting right in front of it, esp. on a larger widescreen PVA.

 

[IlllI]

s-ips > s-pva > tn

 

[Pete]

IIRC (emphasis on the if), IPS initially had the widest viewing angles (and possibly the deepest blacks of all LCD panels, though this may be me factoring in the wider viewing angles so blacks stayed black for a greater viewing range). I don't know if this is still true, but you can check some of BeHardware's detailed LCD reviews for up to date info. Two recent IPS vs. TN/VA articles: 19? LCD monitor survey: 4, 8 ms, TN, IPS, VA?, Nec 20WGX², an IPS equivalent to a 2 ms TN.

 

[Imyourzero]

Originally posted by: clandren
s-ips > s-pva > tn

You might want to qualify that. For image quality and viewing angles, S-IPS is the best. If response time is a priority, TN panels tend to stand out. S-PVAs are somewhere in the middle; better IQ than TN panels, but also more expensive.

 

[xtknight]

IPS screens have two transistors per pixel so they can shutter light better. They also move in the same plane (they don't twist all over the place like TNs). That's why they look the same no matter where you view them. You're basically looking at a straight horizontal line all the time. With TNs it's a curved arrangement and that causes you do see it differently depending on where you view it (you don't even have to move your head).

S-PVA (MVA) screens are like 4 or 8 TNs welded together. It's a rather brute-force solution to the problem: just add more crystals in different directions so they look the same. The only problem is, you never see the image perfectly at a perpendicular angle because you have 4 crystals shooting light in diagonal directions at a perpendicular angle.

TN vs. IPS: http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/technology/technology.jsp?flag=20030304111634
TN vs. MVA: http://www.cmo.com.tw/cmo/english/technology/technology.jsp?flag=20030304111754

MVA panels have the best contrast (low/acceptable black level and really high white level). S-IPS panels tend to produce natural midtones the best as they can control light better with two transistors. TN panels don't produce that great of a picture as it looks slightly different all over the screen. S-IPS panels have a great black level but not so good of a white level. So when you increase the white level you also increase the black level (brighter backlight). IPS screens consume more power since they have two transistors.

Actually I would also like to add that PVA and MVA are similar but still quite different. The multi-domain ("4 TNs") idea still remains. That's a really rough analogy too, BTW.

Actual gamma of IPS and PVA panels tend to be quite different as well. This may be because of manufacturers.

IPS panels (from LG Philips LCD) tend to be dark and low gamma across the whole scale, which produces great midtones and awesome lower tones. The high tones aren't too abominable. MVA (from AU Optronics and PVA from Samsung) generally sacrifices lower and midtones for great high tones which is hardly the best combo. More than likely, this is a function of how the crystals are driven.

 

[D4rkn3ss]

thanks to all! i did post this thread there and madness occurred on the TN S-PVA side.. i never see so much ***edited by moderator*** in a thread before :laugh:

now they will not think twice in acquiring a S-IPS :thumbsup:

xtknight: very interesting this thanks!

 

[ebeattie]

When do you think the response times of the S-IPS panels are going to get up to that of the TN panels? (<5ms) I currently have a Sceptre x22WG gamer display. Its widescreen and doesnt have the ghosting that I have seen in alot of LCD's but Ill be the first one to tell you the banding is starting to annoy me. Whats funny is that banding is ALOT less noticable in gaming than it is in viewing a picture or surfing a website. I thought I might get used to it, but I really miss the performance of my CRT; just not the size, weight and power consumption!

So are there any new technologies coming out that will allow the good panels (S-IPS) to have that high response time?

 

[otispunkmeyer]

well NEC's 20.1 incher with the glossy coating uses a AS-IPS, its just a tuned versions of a S-IPS panel if you like, but its response times are supposedly very similar to that of some fast TN panels. obviously the cost for such a panel is quite high. that NEC is £350 and spectacular panel and Opticlear coating and Advanced DVM aside, its a bare bones monitor (UK spec version)

personnaly i think SED will be good. if it ever happens. i havent read to much into it but you can think of SED stands for Surface conduction electron emitter display.

i think the jist of it is, it has little tiny pixels such as todays LCD's but each of these pixels acts like a CRT. so we should get all the benefits of a CRT (no lag, great colours and contrast and viewing angles) with all the benefits of LCD (space requirements, power requirements, Uber large sizes)

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Painman

Originally posted by: D4rkn3ss
someone can explain to me why a S-IPS is better that a S-PVA?

Viewing angles, plain and simple. PVA is very harsh in this regard. While they may be true 8 bit panels, you can see color shift while you're sitting right in front of it, esp. on a larger widescreen PVA.

yeah especially in dark areas. some guy with the gateway 21 incher (cheaper brother to the sammy 215TW) said when playing Q4 that looking straight on the details were kinda masked and you couldnt make them out cleary. but toward the edges of the screen, such was the angle (ie keep head still, just move your eyes) he could see all the details in the dark areas no problem.

its like peripheral vision in reverse, you can see clearly at the sides, and not very well head on lol

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
well NEC's 20.1 incher with the glossy coating uses a AS-IPS, its just a tuned versions of a S-IPS panel if you like, but its response times are supposedly very similar to that of some fast TN panels. obviously the cost for such a panel is quite high. that NEC is £350 and spectacular panel and Opticlear coating and Advanced DVM aside, its a bare bones monitor (UK spec version)

My 20WMGX2 exhibited better Response time than my Samsung TN (8ms)

 

[Zebo]

S-IPS is by far the best.

Superior Color, veiwing angles, better whites with opticlear dispite what xknight says I've never seen an LCD so white , blacks and now pixel speed with ones like the NEC 20wmgx2

Your DELL is not slow either - can compare to those so-called 4ms TNs just fine.

It's only real weaknesses are a purple hue viewed at xtreme angles on black background, power consumption is like a CRT and cost since they are most expensive LCD's excluding DELL who buys in bulk.

TN has cheap and fast.

S-PVA has nothing I want (except 24" 19x12). - And it seems no one else wants them either when they cry like babies after "losing" the dell panel lotto getting a SPVA in there instead of SIPS. It's major problem besides being slow is Color Shift even viewing straight on if perceptive/sensitive to this. It's so bad one eye can actually see something different than the other eye because your eyes are at different angles - this is especially troubling with large widescreens where image contrast will be very inconsisant along the large horizontal axis to say nothing of moving your head only getting worse. PVA is the second most popular though after TN, since it's full 8 bit like IPS and cheaper than S-IPS..

 

[D4rkn3ss]

I like the purple . i went from a 19" CRT and was expecting some ghost and have none. i had already installed on my box oblivion and f.e.a.r. and the image quality amazes me everyday

 

[Keysplayr]

xtnights LCD threat is a chock full of info. But maybe too much info and gets confusing. Maybe it's just my attention span. What would be kewl, is to have a top 5 for each category:

Example:

Best LCD's for gamers. for each size.
Best LCD's for workers. for each size.
Best LCD's for those who do a little of both. for each size.

I realize there are lists for each purpose in there, but that would mean I would have to buy 4 LCD's to accomodate all my needs. it's not quite as simple as this, but, for the lack of a better way, it will work.

Basically: What is the best "All Around" LCD? One that does all of the above satisfactorily?
Gaming, Working, Publishing, Multimedia, yada yada.

 

[Painman]

Purple is nice... but I got Green too :Q

Green to the left... Purple to the right

But from a straight perpendicular angle, or reasonable facsimile thereof ... gourgeous