Question about selling a house without a realtor - Fees?

[murphy55d]

Ok so my mom had put her house up for sale by owner, to avoid paying the realtor fees when her house sold. She ended up finding a buyer who had just moved her, and wanted the house. They agreed on a price and then proceeded to set up a meeting with my mom, the buyers, and their real estate agent.

Now, when they brought all the paperwork, the real estate agent that these people had, tried to tell my mom that she would have to pay the agent a 3% fee for selling her house, even though she had never hired her, or for that matter, even met her before. But since she was "facilitating" the deal I guess, she was entitled to it.

Now it is my understanding that if you do not hire a realtor to sell and advertise your home, you don't owe selling fees or anything if someone happens to have a realtor and wants to buy your For Sale By Owner home.

It sounds to me like this agent is trying to take advantage of my mom in this. Am I wrong? If so, what's the point of selling your house by yourself if you still have to pay realtor fees?

I have already told her to have a lawyer check this out because I don't think that's right. I just wanted to know for my own sake. I'm sure there are a few real estate agents here.

Thanks

 

[dud]

Ok so my mom had put her house up for sale by owner, to avoid paying the realtor fees when her house sold. She ended up finding a buyer who had just moved her, and wanted the house. They agreed on a price and then proceeded to set up a meeting with my mom, the buyers, and their real estate agent.

Now, when they brought all the paperwork, the real estate agent that these people had, tried to tell my mom that she would have to pay the agent a 3% fee for selling her house, even though she had never hired her, or for that matter, even met her before. But since she was "facilitating" the deal I guess, she was entitled to it.

Now it is my understanding that if you do not hire a realtor to sell and advertise your home, you don't owe selling fees or anything if someone happens to have a realtor and wants to buy your For Sale By Owner home.

It sounds to me like this agent is trying to take advantage of my mom in this. Am I wrong? If so, what's the point of selling your house by yourself if you still have to pay realtor fees?

I have already told her to have a lawyer check this out because I don't think that's right. I just wanted to know for my own sake. I'm sure there are a few real estate agents here.

Thanks

OP,

I've sold a few houses WITHOUT a Realtor.

If the Realtor referred the buyers then their fee is negotiable. The 3% is the max they can expect. Did the buyers have an agent representing them? If so ... negotiate the fee!

If you had sold the place with your own Realtor then you would have expected to pay 3% to your agent plus 3% to the buyer's agent.

If NO agents were involved then there is no fee. If you even consider talking to a lawyer ... you are screwing yourself. Anytime a lawyer gets involved ... only the lawyer wins ...

Lawyers are the Devil ...

 

[murphy55d]

The realtor never came into play until the buyers brought them in. My mom (the seller) never had any contact with this realtor. They found the house through a mutual party through church, and contacted my mom before this realtor was ever mentioned or met with my mom. This is why I am not sure why she has to pay ANY fee at all to this realtor.

 

[dud]

The realtor never came into play until the buyers brought them in. My mom (the seller) never had any contact with this realtor. They found the house through a mutual party through church, and contacted my mom before this realtor was ever mentioned or met with my mom. This is why I am not sure why she has to pay ANY fee at all to this realtor.

That answers a LOT of questions. Just realize the (possibly) the ONLY reason you have buyers for the house is because of the buyer's Realtor. If true then they deserve a fee. NEGOTIATE it! This is a referral and is negotiable from 0 to whatever.

OP, have you ever sold a house before? the 6% fee that many pay is usually (but not always) split between the seller and buyer's agent. In this case the fees are split (usually via contract) between both agents (usually 6% split).

Talk to the buyers to ensure that their agent referred/showed them the house. If not then the agent should get little/none.

 

[murphy55d]

The lawyer is going to be a family friend who is just going to go over this with her as a favor. She's not hiring a random firm to represent her, she just wants to make sure that the language in the sales contract is correct. Mostly regarding these agent fees of which I'm not convinced apply.

 

[murphy55d]

That answers a LOT of questions. Just realize the (possibly) the ONLY reason you have buyers for the house is because of the buyer's Realtor. If true then they deserve a fee. NEGOTIATE it! This is a referral and is negotiable from 0 to whatever.

OP, have you ever sold a house before? the 6% fee that many pay is usually (but not always) split between the seller and buyer's agent. In this case the fees are split (usually via contract) between both agents (usually 6% split).

Talk to the buyers to ensure that their agent referred/showed them the house. If not then the agent should get little/none.

Right, this is what I thought. They did not use this agent to either FIND or SHOW them the house. Of this I am POSITIVE. The agent was not brought in until AFTER these people both walked through the house AND discussed price with my mom. After they decided they wanted the house and were going forward with finding financing, they made mention of this agent, who was the one who brought the "formal" offer to my mom. This was the first time any real estate agent was in contact whatsoever with my mom. I just called her to make sure I had all this right, and I do. The first time this agent even SAW the house was yesterday when she showed up with this offer.

So she is NOT owed the 3%, correct?

 

[DCal430]

Right, this is what I thought. They did not use this agent to either FIND or SHOW them the house. Of this I am POSITIVE. The agent was not brought in until AFTER these people both walked through the house AND discussed price with my mom. After they decided they wanted the house and were going forward with finding financing, they made mention of this agent, who was the one who brought the "formal" offer to my mom. This was the first time any real estate agent was in contact whatsoever with my mom. I just called her to make sure I had all this right, and I do. The first time this agent even SAW the house was yesterday when she showed up with this offer.

So she is NOT owed the 3%, correct?

If the agent is the one who gave your mother the offer document and your mother accepted the offer from the agent. Then the agent was involved and your mother knew of the agent before they signed the sale. If your mother doesn't want to pay the buyers agent anything then she should have rejected the offer.

 

[911paramedic]

The laws are different in all the states so these opinions may or may not apply. Usually if an agent wants anything, they have to bring the people to that property on their first visit or they can forget it. If the buyers want an agent to help them with the paperwork, let them pay for it. I suggest using the lawyer option and telling the agent to pound sand. (But don't do anything to lose the sale if she really needs to make it!)

Just my opinion. That and ALL those percentages are negotiable, it's not like a sales tax that is set in stone.

 

[Veevester]

Buyer/Realtor agency agreements will outline how an agent will get paid by the client they represent. A buyer will often want to have an agent represent them as they may not be familiar with the market and want someone working in their best interest. The fee for a buyer's agent is typically paid from a split (and not necessarily 50/50) from the selling agent's commission, which could be anything, although 6% is common.

If a sale from a FSBO (for sale by owner) occurs, and the seller does not have an agent and is not offering in their listing to pay a commission they have no obligation to do so.

If they present you an offer and it includes a commission to the buyer's agent...then it is up to your mom at that point to negotiate the agent's commissions come from the buyer's funds. There has to be a purchase and sale agreement of some sort agreed to by both parties. It dictates the terms of the sale.

Otherwise all you need to complete a real estate transaction is to hire a lawyer or title agency to draw up the paperwork and file necessary forms with the registry of deeds.

 

[murphy55d]

If the agent is the one who gave your mother the offer document and your mother accepted the offer from the agent. Then the agent was involved and your mother knew of the agent before they signed the sale. If your mother doesn't want to pay the buyers agent anything then she should have rejected the offer.

She has not signed anything yet which is why she was going to have her friend who happens to be a lawyer look it over. I told her if it were me I'd tell them to take a hike with that 3%, the agent did not do a damn thing. If the buyers want to pay this agent for taking care of the sales agreement then that's their business but I wouldn't give in to 3%. If she wanted to feel generous MAYBE 1%.

Like it was mentioned though I dont want her to do anything that'll lose the sale, but whether or not an agent gets 3%, these people want the house for the price they agreed, so that shouldn't (IMO) be a deal-breaker.

 

[bargetrav]

She has not signed anything yet which is why she was going to have her friend who happens to be a lawyer look it over. I told her if it were me I'd tell them to take a hike with that 3%, the agent did not do a damn thing. If the buyers want to pay this agent for taking care of the sales agreement then that's their business but I wouldn't give in to 3%. If she wanted to feel generous MAYBE 1%.

Like it was mentioned though I dont want her to do anything that'll lose the sale, but whether or not an agent gets 3%, these people want the house for the price they agreed, so that shouldn't (IMO) be a deal-breaker.

Listen dude, that's just the way it works, it's VERY, VERY, VERY rare to invovle no real estate agents in this process, they are there for a reason? Have you seen a standard sales contract?


Anyway, I will bet money that the agent for the buyers has already had them sign an agreement stating the agent is representing them, so it's a done deal, the agent is going to get paid, but as always, not neccessarily 3%, more like 2-2.5%.


When you list for sale by owner, you save the 3% fee paid to an agent that would sell your house for you, not the 3% from the buyers party.


Have fun losing the sale for your own ignorance and the fact you're wasting the buyers time.

 

[spidey07]

This is extremely typical. The agent now has claws on the buyer and wants that money. There are very strict laws around this.

If the agent presented the offer contact, they're involved and will get their money unless buyers tell them no. But if they severe from buyer agent, they can't buy your house.

Its a fucking racket. You're not getting out if paying those fees, which as mentioned, are negotiable.

 

[murphy55d]

Listen dude, it isn't my sale. I'm not losing a sale, and neither is she.

First of all like I had posted, we wanted to make sure things went the way they should, and she wasn't being taken advantage of, hence her going to a lawyer and not going off strictly the advice of Anandtech OT.

Second, there were NO agents involved in this until literally this week when they called about meeting up. they had agreed previously that the buyers were going to have a lawyer draw up the sales and such at their cost and then out of the blue this agent comes in with her 3% for doing it. Whether that is "standard" or not AT MINIMUM it's SHADY on the agents part. If they wanted an agent to be part of all this from the get go that's fine and they would be entitled to their commission but why was an agent never even MENTIONED until they decided to call and then show up with this offer?

 

[vrbaba]

Negotiate down to at most 2.5%. Buyers agent is common and if they have one, seller pays for it. But seller can set the terms of the agent fee, which is usually disclosed up front. Since it wasnt, you can disclose it now, and tell them the fair market value 2-3% depending on state.

 

[vrbaba]

...Whether that is "standard" or not AT MINIMUM it's SHADY on the agents part. If they wanted an agent to be part of all this from the get go that's fine and they would be entitled to their commission but why was an agent never even MENTIONED until they decided to call and then show up with this offer?

Its shady on the Buyers part, not the agent who is just doing his/her job.

 

[spidey07]

Listen dude, it isn't my sale. I'm not losing a sale, and neither is she.

First of all like I had posted, we wanted to make sure things went the way they should, and she wasn't being taken advantage of, hence her going to a lawyer and not going off strictly the advice of Anandtech OT.

Second, there were NO agents involved in this until literally this week when they called about meeting up. they had agreed previously that the buyers were going to have a lawyer draw up the sales and such at their cost and then out of the blue this agent comes in with her 3% for doing it. Whether that is "standard" or not AT MINIMUM it's SHADY on the agents part. If they wanted an agent to be part of all this from the get go that's fine and they would be entitled to their commission but why was an agent never even MENTIONED until they decided to call and then show up with this offer?

Look, the offer was a binding contract the buyers agreed to and as such they are bound to that agent on this particular property. They cannot purchase the property with this agent being involved, I can guarantee you that was in the contract the buyer signed (the offer).

You/Mom do not have to accept and tell them to walk or negotiate fees or other terms, but the buyers cannot purchase the property without that real estate agent from here on out (unless the buyers agent was a complete dumbass). An offer is a binding contract. You/mom can choose not to accept, but you're not getting the agent out of the picture, no way, no how now that buyers have signed that contract (also called, the offer).

Let this be a lesson to everybody, read every single thing you sign, don't sign unless you know what it is you are signing. The buyer signed a contract with the offer, part of that contract was for the buyer agent to get their fees. As the seller you either accept this, or not. The seller ALWAYS pays the fees unless negotiated otherwise.

 

[spidey07]

If this is a surprise to you/mom then raise the price to cover the fees and have them submit another offer.

 

[slayer202]

uhhh, it seems like if it's the buyer's agent, the buyer is the one who should be paying the fees.




hmm, quick google says the seller usually pays.

fuck you larry david, that's some buuulllshit

 

[NetWareHead]

If this is a surprise to you/mom then raise the price to cover the fees and have them submit another offer.

or...

counter-offer to the buyer that the agent is his problem and should be taken care of out of his pocket.

 

[Lifted]

Tell the buyer to pay the agents fee if they feel the need to use one. Your mother didn't invite the agent, and the agent didn't show them the house. There agent wasn't there until the offer appeared. If your mother isn't desperate to sell, tell them you'll gladly pay the agent whatever % they feel is fair, as long as that % is added onto the asking price.

 

[DCal430]

Tell the buyer to pay the agents fee if they feel the need to use one. Your mother didn't invite the agent, and the agent didn't show them the house. There agent wasn't there until the offer appeared. If your mother isn't desperate to sell, tell them you'll gladly pay the agent whatever % they feel is fair, as long as that % is added onto the asking price.

And if the buyer isn't desperate to buy the house that will no doubt cost them the sale.

If your mother doesn't want to pay for any of the buyers agent then don't, but at the same time if they buyer doesn't want to buy the house because of that then they shouldn't.

 

[DCal430]

The last thing a buyer or seller wants after a sale is complete is regret. Neither party should agree to something that makes them unhappy.

 

[spidey07]

The last thing a buyer or seller wants after a sale is complete is regret. Neither party should agree to something that makes them unhappy.

Happiness enters not into this. It's a business transaction. Leave the emotions out of it.

 

[0roo0roo]

eh...i thought this was a buyers market....

 

[dud]

Listen dude, that's just the way it works, it's VERY, VERY, VERY rare to invovle no real estate agents in this process, they are there for a reason? Have you seen a standard sales contract?


Anyway, I will bet money that the agent for the buyers has already had them sign an agreement stating the agent is representing them, so it's a done deal, the agent is going to get paid, but as always, not neccessarily 3%, more like 2-2.5%.


When you list for sale by owner, you save the 3% fee paid to an agent that would sell your house for you, not the 3% from the buyers party.


Have fun losing the sale for your own ignorance and the fact you're wasting the buyers time.

Not true. Every house I have sold was FSBO and NO agents were involved on either end. OP, recommend you find a good closing company. With my sakes I used a lawyer and then a closing company owned by a lawyer. All we paid were the closing costs as negotiated.

If your mother does not want to pay then have here contact the buyers (do not contact them through the agent). Tell them the house is FSBO and she has no intention of paying any commission to anyone. Your mother will have to pay some/all of the closing costs as negotiated with the buyer.