Question about SETI

[bwanaaa]

I dont understand the rationale behind looking for analog signals. We have evolved to a highly effecient packet switched global network. When anaolg tv goes 'dark' in 2009, we will have effectively stopped broadcasting into space - that's perhaps 70 years of broadcasting. Done. no more. Why would any advanced civilization surviving thousands of years still be analog? why are we not looking for a packet switched network? The algorithm behind SETI is ancient and unlikely to help us find a helpful civilization. In fact, any civilization that is still analog is likely fascist, centralized and hierarchical.. Not worth knowing.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: bwanaaa
I dont understand the rationale behind looking for analog signals. We have evolved to a highly effecient packet switched global network. When anaolg tv goes 'dark' in 2009, we will have effectively stopped broadcasting into space - that's perhaps 70 years of broadcasting. Done. no more. Why would any advanced civilization surviving thousands of years still be analog? why are we not looking for a packet switched network? The algorithm behind SETI is ancient and unlikely to help us find a helpful civilization. In fact, any civilization that is still analog is likely fascist, centralized and hierarchical.. Not worth knowing.

Pretty much one of the main points in the video I linked above.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: covert24

Originally posted by: Aberforth
they are are doing a good job not contacting us.

compared to other theoretical civilizations out there we are probably the equivalent to the stone age in our time. they already have TV's in their stomachs. Like the teletubbies....

Why does everyone assume other civilizations HAVE to be more advanced than us?? There is no cause or basis for that assumption.

Have you seen how dumb people are? There can't be a lower level intelligent life out there.

 

[RossGr]

Hold on a minute! They will no longer broadcast a analog signal. But you will still be able recieve a signal on an antenna, it just will be a digital signal. TV and Radio will still broadcast, so our signal will still be present.

 

[mpilchfamily]

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: covert24

Originally posted by: Aberforth
they are are doing a good job not contacting us.

compared to other theoretical civilizations out there we are probably the equivalent to the stone age in our time. they already have TV's in their stomachs. Like the teletubbies....

Why does everyone assume other civilizations HAVE to be more advanced than us?? There is no cause or basis for that assumption.

It's doesn't matter if an advanced civilization exists or not. What matters is - what you will do when you finally meet them and why you want to meet them, humans in general are highly dependent beings, our leaders will definitely come up with some sort of technology exchange and we will all end up being slaves to aliens one day- I know it may sound funny but if you look back in our past history it has happened before and will happen again. If there is a free land we want to occupy it, if there is free stuff we want to get it, if there is luxury we want to grab it first. Space exploration is something we aren't supposed to do because we are limited by many things including intelligence. Has it helped humanity in any way? No. What we have done is spend billions of dollars for 50 years trying to find whether there is life on the next planet.

At first you state we would become slaves to an alien race. Then you point out or history of taking over things. A bit contradictory isn't it. I'm more inclined to think that we would trade tech with them, learn from them and then build our selfs up to enslave them as we have done with every other civilization mankind has encountered on our own planet. We learn to conquer and destroy what we find. As a species we are fighters and work toward domination and have been since the dawn of our species. Back when we where first learning to use tools all of nature was able to overpower us. We evolved and learned to dominate the world around us.

 

[rummyPPG]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: bwanaaa
I dont understand the rationale behind looking for analog signals. We have evolved to a highly effecient packet switched global network. When anaolg tv goes 'dark' in 2009, we will have effectively stopped broadcasting into space - that's perhaps 70 years of broadcasting. Done. no more. Why would any advanced civilization surviving thousands of years still be analog? why are we not looking for a packet switched network? The algorithm behind SETI is ancient and unlikely to help us find a helpful civilization. In fact, any civilization that is still analog is likely fascist, centralized and hierarchical.. Not worth knowing.

Pretty much one of the main points in the video I linked above.

Aren't analog signals exactly what we'd want to be looking for? I.e. we don't want to find civilization's who have our latest technology finally reach us from far away, they'd be ridiculously far ahead of us when we finally recieved those newer signals it'd be unrealistic to interface with them; we'd want to recieve an old technology from a far place so that they are currently somewhere near where we are, whether that's ahead or behind some, right? I.e. a civilization who's analog signals take 70 years to reach us that arrived now would indicate they're roughly where we are, 1000 years to reach us and they're roughly 1000 years ahead, etc. I'd be interested in finding a packet switched signals (or other technologies) in the future but not right now, not unless the civilization is really near our location.

Side question, what's the transmission rate of the radio signals SETI is listening for through space? I.e. if 20-30 light years is a small distance away, how long does it take for us to hear signals from that distance?

 

[mpilchfamily]

What would be really cool is to receive a sivilization's first transmitions that calculated out to originat at a distance from us that showed they started transmiting signals at about the same time we did.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: rummyPPG

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: bwanaaa
I dont understand the rationale behind looking for analog signals. We have evolved to a highly effecient packet switched global network. When anaolg tv goes 'dark' in 2009, we will have effectively stopped broadcasting into space - that's perhaps 70 years of broadcasting. Done. no more. Why would any advanced civilization surviving thousands of years still be analog? why are we not looking for a packet switched network? The algorithm behind SETI is ancient and unlikely to help us find a helpful civilization. In fact, any civilization that is still analog is likely fascist, centralized and hierarchical.. Not worth knowing.

Pretty much one of the main points in the video I linked above.

Aren't analog signals exactly what we'd want to be looking for? I.e. we don't want to find civilization's who have our latest technology finally reach us from far away, they'd be ridiculously far ahead of us when we finally recieved those newer signals it'd be unrealistic to interface with them; we'd want to recieve an old technology from a far place so that they are currently somewhere near where we are, whether that's ahead or behind some, right? I.e. a civilization who's analog signals take 70 years to reach us that arrived now would indicate they're roughly where we are, 1000 years to reach us and they're roughly 1000 years ahead, etc. I'd be interested in finding a packet switched signals (or other technologies) in the future but not right now, not unless the civilization is really near our location.

Side question, what's the transmission rate of the radio signals SETI is listening for through space? I.e. if 20-30 light years is a small distance away, how long does it take for us to hear signals from that distance?

20 years... Radio travels at light speed

 

[Born2bwire]

Originally posted by: mpilchfamily
What would be really cool is to receive a sivilization's first transmitions that calculated out to originat at a distance from us that showed they started transmiting signals at about the same time we did.

The we find out it was just a big ass reflector that some aliens set up as a practical joke.

 

[PolymerTim]

Originally posted by: rummyPPG
[Aren't analog signals exactly what we'd want to be looking for? I.e. we don't want to find civilization's who have our latest technology finally reach us from far away, they'd be ridiculously far ahead of us when we finally recieved those newer signals it'd be unrealistic to interface with them; we'd want to recieve an old technology from a far place so that they are currently somewhere near where we are, whether that's ahead or behind some, right? I.e. a civilization who's analog signals take 70 years to reach us that arrived now would indicate they're roughly where we are, 1000 years to reach us and they're roughly 1000 years ahead, etc. I'd be interested in finding a packet switched signals (or other technologies) in the future but not right now, not unless the civilization is really near our location.

Side question, what's the transmission rate of the radio signals SETI is listening for through space? I.e. if 20-30 light years is a small distance away, how long does it take for us to hear signals from that distance?

A slight omission from your logic is that we will also advance during those 1000 years. So actually, the only difference is that they will be about 70 years advanced from the original transmission we get from them (if it only took that long for the signal to get here) and then both civilizations would progress 1000 years (if that's how long it took them to get here and if we are still here).

 

[PolymerTim]

Originally posted by: Born2bwire

Originally posted by: mpilchfamily
What would be really cool is to receive a sivilization's first transmitions that calculated out to originat at a distance from us that showed they started transmiting signals at about the same time we did.

The we find out it was just a big ass reflector that some aliens set up as a practical joke.

^ This. :laugh: :thumbsup:

Just what we need, aliens with advanced technology and a sense of humor!

 

[Aberforth]

Originally posted by: mpilchfamily

Originally posted by: Aberforth

Originally posted by: bobsmith1492

Originally posted by: covert24

Originally posted by: Aberforth
they are are doing a good job not contacting us.

compared to other theoretical civilizations out there we are probably the equivalent to the stone age in our time. they already have TV's in their stomachs. Like the teletubbies....

Why does everyone assume other civilizations HAVE to be more advanced than us?? There is no cause or basis for that assumption.

It's doesn't matter if an advanced civilization exists or not. What matters is - what you will do when you finally meet them and why you want to meet them, humans in general are highly dependent beings, our leaders will definitely come up with some sort of technology exchange and we will all end up being slaves to aliens one day- I know it may sound funny but if you look back in our past history it has happened before and will happen again. If there is a free land we want to occupy it, if there is free stuff we want to get it, if there is luxury we want to grab it first. Space exploration is something we aren't supposed to do because we are limited by many things including intelligence. Has it helped humanity in any way? No. What we have done is spend billions of dollars for 50 years trying to find whether there is life on the next planet.

At first you state we would become slaves to an alien race. Then you point out or history of taking over things. A bit contradictory isn't it. I'm more inclined to think that we would trade tech with them, learn from them and then build our selfs up to enslave them as we have done with every other civilization mankind has encountered on our own planet. We learn to conquer and destroy what we find. As a species we are fighters and work toward domination and have been since the dawn of our species. Back when we where first learning to use tools all of nature was able to overpower us. We evolved and learned to dominate the world around us.

Think deeply, human beings want to meet aliens to start tech trading and learn from them? Honestly, we've had great teachers and scientists since the dawn of history-tell me how much did we learn from them? We never learn, that's why history repeats, or rather historians repeat. The first thing we have to learn is not to depend, only then other civilization will trust us. Any kind of dealings/trade or intellectual exchange means dependence- we have to show them we can do without them. "Are we alone in the universe?" isn't the big question. In fact it should be "Why are you feeling lonely?"

 

[Nathelion]

No, no, and no. The big question is "What is 6 * 7?"

 

[Oceandevi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox