Question about University rankings

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Gizmo j

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2013
1,087
302
136
@Brainonska511

I plan on getting a PhD in Applied Physics which leans toward Engineering.

Because in the future I want to join humanitarian groups and help create buildings/power-plants/agriculture in poor parts of the world.

And as I said before, I need to get a Bachelors in CE or CS so I can get a well paying Telecommute job.

I'm not sure you know what you want to do for a career.
I want to be a Physicist.....I just said that.

I also want to do some Engineering work which is why I plan on majoring in Applied Physics.
 
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Dec 10, 2005
25,053
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@Brainonska511

I plan on getting a PhD in Applied Physics which leans toward Engineering.

Because in the future I want to join humanitarian groups and help create buildings/power-plants/agriculture in poor parts of the world.

And as I said before, I need to get a Bachelors in CE or CS so I can get a well paying Telecommute job.


I want to be a Physicist.....I just said that.

I also want to do some Engineering work which is why I plan on majoring in Applied Physics.

You don't need a PhD for that. You can easily do that stuff with a bachelor's and/or a masters, but in either case, you'd probably want it in engineering.

But if you want to do the PhD, why are you worried about a telecommuting job? There is no way you can work a real job alongside getting a PhD. Unless you're planning on working for a few years before going back for the PhD.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
Welding school. Specialize in underwater welding, and rake in the big bucks.

https://www.commercialdivingacademy.com/underwater-welding-career-and-salary.cms
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, commercial divers and underwater welders have a mean (average) hourly wage of $26.32, while the mean annual wage is approximately $54,750.

Additionally, the top percentile (90%) can make approximately $93,910 or more. To view more interesting facts and statistics about underwater welding careers and commercial diving click here.

Huh?
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,985
3,170
136
The three things that matter are admissions test scores, GPA and undergrad school - pretty much in that order. This is true mainly for competitive programs and disciplines. Most Ivy League schools are going to expect you to have something north of a 3.0 GPA and be in at least the 90-95th percentile on something like GRE. So if you get your undergrad degree from a noname school, you'd better have a world class GPA and rock their world on your admissions tests. In fact if you can score in the high 90's on the admissions test, it almost doesn't matter where you get your degree from. Unfortunately the same can't be said of GPA's. Admissions officers like to be able to justify their decisions and GPA and test scores are the main way they do that.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
The three things that matter are admissions test scores, GPA and undergrad school - pretty much in that order. This is true mainly for competitive programs and disciplines. Most Ivy League schools are going to expect you to have something north of a 3.0 GPA and be in at least the 90-95th percentile on something like GRE. So if you get your undergrad degree from a noname school, you'd better have a world class GPA and rock their world on your admissions tests. In fact if you can score in the high 90's on the admissions test, it almost doesn't matter where you get your degree from. Unfortunately the same can't be said of GPA's. Admissions officers like to be able to justify their decisions and GPA and test scores are the main way they do that.

Not true at all. When people are applying to prestigious graduate programs, most people are going to have a high GPA and GRE. That's not what distinguishes you. In fact, I'm fairly certain that some esteemed schools don't even care about the general GRE anymore. Publications, internships, "connections", etc go much further.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,985
3,170
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Not true at all. When people are applying to prestigious graduate programs, most people are going to have a high GPA and GRE. That's not what distinguishes you. In fact, I'm fairly certain that some esteemed schools don't even care about the general GRE anymore. Publications, internships, "connections", etc go much further.
Probably. The point is that you need to have those as minimum qualifications. If you have a 2.something gpa and only score in the 70th or 80th percentile, daddy better be prepared to buy a couple buildings for the campus.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
80th percentile GRE isn't bad at all. For example, per Berkeley's website their average students have ~80th percentile verbal and ~60th percentile quant, and they say they have no minimum. It's a checkbox and if they're in the early filtering stages it's nice to not get overlooked, but if all you have is a nice GRE and GPA, you're not getting into Berkeley. It's probably the least important thing of the three. A C-grade GPA is shitty, but you have to seriously be delusional to think about going to grad school period with that.

EDIT: Whoops, that was Berkeley's school of education, I thought I was looking at another program, I knew something seemed fishy. Still, even engineering schools have averages roughly in the 80th percentile range.
 
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Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,985
3,170
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80th percentile GRE isn't bad at all. For example, per Berkeley's website their average students have ~80th percentile verbal and ~60th percentile quant, and they say they have no minimum. It's a checkbox and if they're in the early filtering stages it's nice to not get overlooked, but if all you have is a nice GRE and GPA, you're not getting into Berkeley. It's probably the least important thing of the three. A C-grade GPA is shitty, but you have to seriously be delusional to think about going to grad school period with that.
Berkeley has always been the exception to the rule. Look at someplace like Princeton.

edit: as for being delusional, it really depends on what sort of program you want. Things like law and medicine are a lot more competitive than say archeology.
 
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Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,985
3,170
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http://www.princeton.edu/pub/profile/admission/graduate/

http://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide_table1a.pdf

Quantitative (average)
Division Applicants Admits Enrollees
Architecture 154 156 156
Engineering 151 162 160
Humanities 155 165 164
Natural sciences 154 161 158
Social sciences 142 160 158
Woodrow Wilson School 155 163 162

~80th percentile, again.
OK, I looked up the percentile chart for the GRE



And here are some sample GRE scores for different schools and programs

http://gre.kaptest.com/2014/11/24/average-gre-scores-top-grad-school-programs/

From a quick scan, I may have been a little aggressive on the percentiles but I don't think I was off by a lot.
 

GoSharks

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 1999
3,053
0
76
The three things that matter are admissions test scores, GPA and undergrad school - pretty much in that order. This is true mainly for competitive programs and disciplines. Most Ivy League schools are going to expect you to have something north of a 3.0 GPA and be in at least the 90-95th percentile on something like GRE. So if you get your undergrad degree from a noname school, you'd better have a world class GPA and rock their world on your admissions tests. In fact if you can score in the high 90's on the admissions test, it almost doesn't matter where you get your degree from. Unfortunately the same can't be said of GPA's. Admissions officers like to be able to justify their decisions and GPA and test scores are the main way they do that.

GRE scores mean squat. Basically admissions committees use them to check that you're not an idiot. Straight from my former PI's (chair of Grad program) mouth.

Research experience trumps everything. Yes, even GPA if you have a couple publications to your name.
 

Charmonium

Diamond Member
May 15, 2015
9,985
3,170
136
GRE scores mean squat. Basically admissions committees use them to check that you're not an idiot. Straight from my former PI's (chair of Grad program) mouth.

Research experience trumps everything. Yes, even GPA if you have a couple publications to your name.
I can see how that might be possible for some fields. I know that when an ex-gf was going for her greencard having publications was a major reason that she was even considered. But she was grad student in molecular biology and the only reason she even had any publications was because she had managed getting a job doing what amounted to post-doc work even though she only had an MS. I don't know how many undergrads get the chance to be listed as a contributor on a journal paper.

But for a lot of competitive fields, this isn't an option. For example if you're going to law school, you're not going to be writing any law review articles as an undergrad. Even once you're in law school they don't even give the chance to work on the law review until the end of your first year. Same goes for people planning to work on an MBA.
 

Obsy

Senior member
Apr 28, 2009
389
0
0
You're not going to be a telecommuting programmer while doing a Physics PhD; you'll be in a paid research/teaching position at the school. If they don't offer you that opportunity then that means you didn't get accepted into their PhD program. Seriously. Talk to any professor and they'll tell you this.

With the above said, you should be doing undergrad physics or something laden with that subject like engineering or applied math. Your reason for getting a CS degree just makes zero sense.
 

Murloc

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,382
65
91
@Brainonska511

I plan on getting a PhD in Applied Physics which leans toward Engineering.

Because in the future I want to join humanitarian groups and help create buildings/power-plants/agriculture in poor parts of the world.

And as I said before, I need to get a Bachelors in CE or CS so I can get a well paying Telecommute job.


I want to be a Physicist.....I just said that.

I also want to do some Engineering work which is why I plan on majoring in Applied Physics.
You are saying two opposing things:
  • I want to join humanitarian groups and help create buildings/power-plants/agriculture in poor parts of the world
  • I want to be a Physicist
Once you've made up your mind on which you want to be, you can start choosing what to do.

1. means masters' in civil/environmental/hydraulic engineering or agricultural engineering (but then you'll only do farming) and working for big industry, humanitarian groups aren't building the grand renaissance dam in ethiopia, an italian construction company (Salini) is, while french multinational Alstom will supply the electrical parts.
The chinese have taken over road and rail construction in the developing world.
Environmental engineering might allow you to work on a sewer system but I'm not sure if the chinese or local companies have taken over in that sector too.
2. means phd in physics and little money for several years of your life, then it will depend on how good you are.
Applied physicist may mean you can work in research labs in the industry (lasers, semiconductors etc.) instead of the higgs boson I guess. I don't see how it links up to the building and power plant industries.

Besides, how does a bachelor's in computer science/engineering help you achieve any of these two?

You're not going to be a telecommuting programmer while doing a Physics PhD; you'll be in a paid research/teaching position at the school. If they don't offer you that opportunity then that means you didn't get accepted into their PhD program. Seriously. Talk to any professor and they'll tell you this.

With the above said, you should be doing undergrad physics or something laden with that subject like engineering or applied math. Your reason for getting a CS degree just makes zero sense.
this.

Also even if you do just a masters' degree, I don't think you can get a telecommuting job with no experience that easily, unless you build your own business.
Also I would drop political science since it's only an interest and you're cash-strapped (or time-strapped if you work while you study).
 

cbrunny

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2007
6,791
406
126
lol a lot of people here are just trolling the OP. Clearly not answering his question and instead just trying to get a rise out of him.

Surprised to see someone interested in both Political Science and Physics. I have a Masters degree in Political Science - I cant remember which but University of Michigan or Michigan State - one of those two has an excellent Political Science program. Mine is from a Canadian University.

No idea why you would want to go into Physics and Political Science. Strongly suggest choosing whichever one is currently your major in college and keeping the other as a hobby.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,778
126
Rankings are one thing, but they mean very little in the REAL world. Universities are only as good as the students and particular programs of study are only as good as the professors that make them what they are. (including research they do)

Your best bet is to establish where you want to live and try to figure out which university is going to be the sexiest to the potential future employers. That can include a switch from coast to coast... (example, Harverd (havard, I know) would be good east coast, but you'll likely have fewer havard grads in CA. That may give make you more attractive to firms that want a Harvard grad for the heck of it)... Stuff like that.

Figure out your potential jobs and where you think you can work. If you're doing poli sci, state government won't likely pay as much as fed, but you can also transfer that to a lot of other business roles, like CEO or president of a company.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Because in the future I want to join humanitarian groups and help create buildings/power-plants/agriculture in poor parts of the world.

Just get a civil/structural BS degree for the work you mentioned.
 
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Belegost

Golden Member
Feb 20, 2001
1,807
19
81
@Brainonska511

I plan on getting a PhD in Applied Physics which leans toward Engineering.

Because in the future I want to join humanitarian groups and help create buildings/power-plants/agriculture in poor parts of the world.

And as I said before, I need to get a Bachelors in CE or CS so I can get a well paying Telecommute job.


I want to be a Physicist.....I just said that.

I also want to do some Engineering work which is why I plan on majoring in Applied Physics.

Sigh, between this and the last thread it seems like good advice from more than a few people who have gone through grad school are not getting through.

First, why are you worrying about grad schools now? You have a lot of work to get through before you're ready for that discussion really.

Second, you say you're going to CC to get a CIS AA to transfer to a Cal State school (SDSU) in CE or CS. Have you talked with your CC Transfer department and gotten a clear list of requirements for transferring in those majors? Your CC will have a list of required courses that need to be completed, and those courses are likely to include some not in the CIS degree. Especially CE which is going to require different(more) math and science courses.

You want to complete those courses at the CC. First because transfer without those courses is much harder, and you're more likely to get rejected. But second, and more important, the CC will better enable you to succeed in those courses, at your CC courses in Linear Algebra and Differential Equations are going to have 20-30 people at the first class, dropping to 10 within the first couple weeks, you will get a lot of personal access to the instructor to help you understand. At a big university like SDSU those courses will have 200-300 students, and you will get 1 hour/week in discussion time with a grad student TA who really doesn't want to be there.

Next, this has come up before - do NOT plan on working a night job going to grad school in Physics, or Engineering. It is not a reasonable plan. To go to grad school in those fields you need to get a paid position in the department; Fellowship, Research Assistant, and/or Teaching Assistant. These positions will pay your tuition as well as a small stipend to live on. It's been said earlier in this thread, but if the offer for grad school doesn't include funding for at least the first year through one of these means - then it's the same as being denied. As someone with his grad degrees in EE I can tell you that the workload is such that you can't afford to be distracted with outside work, and those night hours are prime time to get thesis work done.

Third - pick a direction. Planning a BS in CS or CE to go to grad school for Physics is planning for problems. One, you're a lot less likely to get accepted in a grad program for physics with those degrees, and you'll immediately be disqualified as a TA for almost all the physics courses because you don't have the background to teach them. Two, you will go into the master's coursework without the undergrad material, you will end up needing to go back and take/audit undergrad courses to get the necessary understanding to complete the grad classes, this is going to burn up time that you can't afford to spend, a PhD program has milestones that need to be reached by certain deadlines, such as completing preliminary exams and getting your MS within 2 years; hard to do when you need to make up a couple years of undergrad work before even starting the grad courses.

So, if you're really wanting to do physics, you need to start in that direction now. Go to your transfer office and get the transfer requirements for physics, or at least engineering physics, so you can plan for a BS in that field.

Finally, if going to underprivileged areas and doing engineering work is your goal, then I don't see that physics is where you want to be (unless you want to go there and teach physics.) The more useful degrees will be Structural, Mechanical, and Electrical engineering. An EE that knows power systems, or RF, can do a lot to bring electricity or internet access to areas without it. Structural engineers can help build industrial facilities needed to house power generation or factories, and infrastructure elements such as bridges to enable trade. Mechanical engineers can help put together the machinery to do useful things: cleaning water, generating power, industrial tools, etc.
 

WhoBeDaPlaya

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,413
401
126
I'm not sure you know what you want to do for a career.
Easy. He wants to write the next Temple OS
As someone with his grad degrees in EE I can tell you that the workload is such that you can't afford to be distracted with outside work, and those night hours are prime time to get thesis work done.
^ This. If you were only after a non-thesis MS, that would be workable. But if you want to do a PhD as quickly/efficiently as possible, you have to live and breathe your thesis. Yes, that includes time on the can, as well as "happy" time.
 
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GoSharks

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 1999
3,053
0
76
I can see how that might be possible for some fields. I know that when an ex-gf was going for her greencard having publications was a major reason that she was even considered. But she was grad student in molecular biology and the only reason she even had any publications was because she had managed getting a job doing what amounted to post-doc work even though she only had an MS. I don't know how many undergrads get the chance to be listed as a contributor on a journal paper.

But for a lot of competitive fields, this isn't an option. For example if you're going to law school, you're not going to be writing any law review articles as an undergrad. Even once you're in law school they don't even give the chance to work on the law review until the end of your first year. Same goes for people planning to work on an MBA.
OP was talking about Applied Physics. Definitely applicable there. Anyways, I said GRE, not GMAT or LSAT .

Undergrads at top schools have all kinds of opportunities to do legitimate undergraduate research - I was listed as a contributor on a journal paper (not author, didn't spend enough time in the lab for that, but I definitely know of kids that were authors)

If you're applying to a top grad school, undergraduate research will be more the norm than exception. PIs are looking for people that can do research firstmost and foremost.
 

JMapleton

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2008
4,179
2
81
Dunno. I was looking at the wage board on a jobsite back in the 90s, and it was calling for $200+ per hour. That's what average lawyers made at the time.

Just because something was true during the antiquity, that doesn't mean it's still true today.
 
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Mide

Golden Member
Mar 27, 2008
1,547
0
71
You're doing too much planning and too little DOing. One step at a time. Finish your base degree and hope you're a 4.0 student and can max out those GRE scores.
 
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