question about war and wow

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Socialism has found it's way to WoW in WotLK. All kinds of nerfs to prevent any kind of stacking and mathematical advantage by those who know how to play. In addition to the practice of welfare epics, all classes are being made more or less the same in 3.0, so anybody and everybody, from veteran Sunwell raiders to newbies can one button face roll their way to Arthas.

/rant

How does what content others get to see even affect you? Really, who gives a shit?

 

[flexy]

Hey guys,

thanks for all the answers. I got me the client as well as a retail box/key and a time card, and i am playing WAR for a few hours now and i dont know what to think about it.

() i have the subjective impression that WAR is missing a lot of charm (in lack of a better word) which WOW has

() i dont see ANY socializing, chat etc. going on. A MMO without interacting with other people == dead.

() i absolutely hate, hate all the selectable characters. I am one fo the people who thinks its extremely important to haev a wide variety of appearance options. If i dont have enough choices in how my char *looks*...(or dont like the choices) i have a problem. This is crucial for me to spend months and months leveling a character. I don't like the ranged order DPS (wizards) characters....hairstyles are horrible. The only characters "appealing" to me are the destruction dark elves.... but i am not too comfortable playing destruction. I know that for some people those are trivial things...but as said for me this is essential for a RPG.

() voices are horrible. Ok, i am a sorceress/witch elf....but the character's emotes/voices are horrible. Hard to get "into the character" if you are not 100% satisfied with looks and the character in general

() Game has a very serious, dark tone which i dont like too much.

Technical:
On a positive side, Antialiasing with NV 8800 DOES work...i just force 4xAA and it looks "ok"...didnt notice any MAJOR glitches

Sounds...are odd....sporadic....could be improved

alt-tabbing works fine here

On a technical side i dont have problems, i am running 1680x1050 4xAA, no real problems.

G.

 

[KaOTiK]

Originally posted by: flexy
Hey guys,

thanks for all the answers. I got me the client as well as a retail box/key and a time card, and i am playing WAR for a few hours now and i dont know what to think about it.

() i have the subjective impression that WAR is missing a lot of charm (in lack of a better word) which WOW has

() i dont see ANY socializing, chat etc. going on. A MMO without interacting with other people == dead.

() i absolutely hate, hate all the selectable characters. I am one fo the people who thinks its extremely important to haev a wide variety of appearance options. If i dont have enough choices in how my char *looks*...(or dont like the choices) i have a problem. This is crucial for me to spend months and months leveling a character. I don't like the ranged order DPS (wizards) characters....hairstyles are horrible. The only characters "appealing" to me are the destruction dark elves.... but i am not too comfortable playing destruction. I know that for some people those are trivial things...but as said for me this is essential for a RPG.

() voices are horrible. Ok, i am a sorceress/witch elf....but the character's emotes/voices are horrible. Hard to get "into the character" if you are not 100% satisfied with looks and the character in general

() Game has a very serious, dark tone which i dont like too much.

Technical:
On a positive side, Antialiasing with NV 8800 DOES work...i just force 4xAA and it looks "ok"...didnt notice any MAJOR glitches

Sounds...are odd....sporadic....could be improved

alt-tabbing works fine here

On a technical side i dont have problems, i am running 1680x1050 4xAA, no real problems.

G.

Not really sure what you mean by charm for it. The two sides are at war and really hate each other, I find a lot of I guess what you could call charm to be in the way the characters act. Dark Elfs for example have a damn dark sense of humor and literally talk down too and treat the high elfs like shit. I think that is awesome personally following the story and the lore of the game.

Socializing is minimal. Main reasons my guild and I figure out was, the game tells you where you need to go for quests so you don't get lots of random chat from that, and the fact you can queue up anywhere for a scenario so people are constantly popping in and out of the area. I do find the open groups though to be simply awesome. In an area doing a quest and need some help, open the group window see if anyone else is real close to you and jump in their group. Even if they aren't doing the quest 9 out of 10 times the people will have no problem helping you since you are so close.

The looks thing is personal taste. I understand totally what you are saying, I am very picky about how my characters look as well but I gotta say I really like how most all the classes can look when you make your character, very gritty look to them.

What did you find horrible about the voices? The acting or just what they say? I personally love my DE's Sorceress', she gets hit and says how dare you to whatever hit her and other things, I'm complete opposite of you, I find it much easier to get into the character cause they have a bit of attitude.

The game is very dark, it is suppose to be. Check out some of the Warhammer universe. It is a very gritty hateful war and I think the game presents that very well. From how the characters act and what they say, to how they view the other side and the things they do. In WoW for example, it never felt like Horde was at war with the Alliance, you never got that feeling they even really hated each other much at that.

Biggest tech issue seems to be the memory leak or whatever. If you play for some many hours without restarting the client icons above the guys in towns and such disappear which can be frustrating sometimes lol.

 

[Baked]

I played WoW for about 3 years, 2 main toons, 300+ hrs played on one of the toons, end game, been there done that, finally got bored and quit cold turkey.

Picked up WAR day 1, playing it casually a few hours a week on a RP server in a theme guild. I'm only L11. I like WAR in that you can pick it up and put it down anytime you want, quests are super easy to do w/ built-in map markers, and public quests get you some good loot w/o even trying. PvP battle ground is alright, they will adjust low level players to higher level to match the opposition's higher level players.

WAR is pretty fun, but I'm undecided on whether I'll renew next time. We'll see.

 

[Dangerer]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Despite all the bitching you might hear on the WOW forums, the classes are actually balanced extremely well.

No, they are not even close to being balanced well. I have a toon at either end of the spectrum, mages which are the whipping boy of Blizz atm(for the last couple years) and the drood which is the golden child. The classes are absurdly far apart in PvE or PvP. I walked into BT with nothing but Kara and crafted gear on the drood(tree) and easily healed the place(poorest finish ever was second healing BT), the mage can't dream of being top tier dps in full Tier6. That isn't my perspective, that is the cold hard reality of the game. While not as easy on the gear requirements, I could also get my bear gear to a level to OT in BT fairly easily. Sadly, mages are much closer in PvE then they are in PvP to droods.

So what you're saying is that your kara geared druid is capable of topping meters against classes like shamans/CoH priests which are MADE to dominate raid healing instances like BT... OR you're extremely good at the druid class and every other healer who has gear designed for the content is poor at their class. If it's the latter, I find it hard to believe that someone so skilled at the druid class to be so poor at the mage class. Let me get it straight, I know mage dps tops out lower than locks and rogues deep into sunwell, but it doesn't mean they can't compete. I mained a mage and before the release of sunwell, I easily compete toe to toe with classes like warlocks and rogues (pre-glaives). In fact the mages in my guild running arcane blast spec entered BT with the highest sustained DPS. We put out about 1800 dps each consistently topping the meters and until our locks/rogues hit 4pc T6 did they start to compete with us.

In full on PvE gear with 0 resil I laugh at full S4 mages, they do not stand a chance. Unless they are very well played, I chuckle at two of them. Not until I get 3 mages that play reasonably well do I have anything at all to fear. Oh yeah, my druid also has vastly superior CC to a mage in arenas or BGs, can shape shift to have 10x the armor(in my raid gear, 20x in pvp gear), can hit travel form to escape(mages have the extremely sketchy blink) and I can push around 500dps in straight healing gear with my normal raid healing spec(which means mages don't even get to live all that long- against a healer...).

You must be in a very very poor battlegroup to be eating up mages with 0 resilience.

 

[flexy]

please dont get me started with WOW character balance

I am playing a lock which does *awesome* in raids and is pure joy levelling or just grinding or farming.
Even BGs are pretty fun, even as destro, even more as FG spec. (I totally hate SL/SL).

The problem is that we dont stand ANY chance against 2v2 against rogues, rogues IMHO are the most overpowered and favored class in the whole game. Huntards can be a bitch also, but stil no comparison against rogues.

We locks got nerfed down very, very often...and still i hear how overpowered we're *supposed* to be. The only "defense" we have is a nerfed down "fear" which can be resisted, dispelled or de-trinketed with your standard PvP trinket. There are situations where you get stun-locked by a rogue and you cant do ANYTHING for the whole duration of the fight...except watch yourself stabbed to death.
I tried arena (even as arena suitable 2v2 SL/SL spec)....but its a fricking joke since the MAJORITY of 2v2s or in BGs are huntards (on our server 25% huntards) or rogues. if i'd to play 2v2 arena for some time...would be the best way to get me into the insanity asylum. This just one example of a class imbalance where one class (rogue) can totally disable another class.

Also..in regards to mages...i have seen GOOD frost mages which actually owned me...but far more mages which i can two shot

 

[flexy]

i define "grind" as the boring "work" you do over and over....dailies, slaying the same monsters and doing the same stupid quests every day.
The whole WoW universe is full of monsters like murlocs, fish-people and a handful more which you will fight regardless what level and regardless where you are.
There is no reason for such a big game to have repetitive elements as wow has.

Everything, every talent, every achievement requires the eternal grind, be it questing, mats farming, whatever. Then the PvP grind...the badge farming grind...etc..etc...

I understand that a certain amount of this would be natural for RPGs...but i just wish it would at least have a bigger variety of monsters and more surprising elements. The only "challenge" right now for me is raiding with my guild, T5 now and hopefully soon T6, learning various strategies in how to kill this or that boss. It definitly burns itself out due to a lack of new elements, and that's why people get burned out w/ WoW, IMHO.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: flexy
Hey guys,

thanks for all the answers. I got me the client as well as a retail box/key and a time card, and i am playing WAR for a few hours now and i dont know what to think about it.

() i have the subjective impression that WAR is missing a lot of charm (in lack of a better word) which WOW has

() i dont see ANY socializing, chat etc. going on. A MMO without interacting with other people == dead.

() i absolutely hate, hate all the selectable characters. I am one fo the people who thinks its extremely important to haev a wide variety of appearance options. If i dont have enough choices in how my char *looks*...(or dont like the choices) i have a problem. This is crucial for me to spend months and months leveling a character. I don't like the ranged order DPS (wizards) characters....hairstyles are horrible. The only characters "appealing" to me are the destruction dark elves.... but i am not too comfortable playing destruction. I know that for some people those are trivial things...but as said for me this is essential for a RPG.

() voices are horrible. Ok, i am a sorceress/witch elf....but the character's emotes/voices are horrible. Hard to get "into the character" if you are not 100% satisfied with looks and the character in general

() Game has a very serious, dark tone which i dont like too much.

Technical:
On a positive side, Antialiasing with NV 8800 DOES work...i just force 4xAA and it looks "ok"...didnt notice any MAJOR glitches

Sounds...are odd....sporadic....could be improved

alt-tabbing works fine here

On a technical side i dont have problems, i am running 1680x1050 4xAA, no real problems.

G.

Comparing WAR to WoW is wrong in my books,I have played WoW for 6 months and to be honest bored the hell out of me so I left(was in a guild, some of my ex-SWG guild mates went to WoW).
Character wise a lot do look similar but at least CE owners can use thier CE head on their alts,they did reduce classes from 24 to 20 for final release.


Chat wise well only way I see chat going on is when you group up in PQs etc and start talking to people.That or join a guild,at least no WoW spamming going on in WAR which is a good thing in my books(WoW users forget about meantioning that).
I would not say it has a dark tone, however its certainly WAR oringnated .
PQs I love and think are a great idea,remember WoW has been out for quite a while now and WAR is a new game thats still EVOLVING.

User base so far is more mature then the average WoW player from my gaming experience of both(good thing in my books).
RvR side of things are fun if you like PvP etc....even newbies can jump straight in and try it out and not worry about death etc...

Tecnincal issues I would say apart from bugs is the lag in Wargroups etc..when you got couple of BWs spamming their spell effects and other things going on it can be a serious issue.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
No, they are not even close to being balanced well. I have a toon at either end of the spectrum, mages which are the whipping boy of Blizz atm(for the last couple years) and the drood which is the golden child. The classes are absurdly far apart in PvE or PvP. I walked into BT with nothing but Kara and crafted gear on the drood(tree) and easily healed the place(poorest finish ever was second healing BT), the mage can't dream of being top tier dps in full Tier6. That isn't my perspective, that is the cold hard reality of the game. While not as easy on the gear requirements, I could also get my bear gear to a level to OT in BT fairly easily. Sadly, mages are much closer in PvE then they are in PvP to droods.

You used druid vs mage, which is practically one of the best classes a druid can fight. The druid has always been a survivalist and the mage has always been a glass cannon. Always. A survivalist that can outlive the glass cannon has a free kill. However there was a time when a good mage could destroy a druid. I can't argue with you in depth - I quit WoW in 2005. However, you have to understand class balance does not mean every class has an epic battle with every other class. Classes have strengths and weaknesses, if you play to them there will be classes that your class can best. That's why it's a team game and not single player.

My point, however is that WoW is balanced extremely well. And your post proves that. See you argued an extremely complex battle where there are many MMORPGs where 1 class could be outright broken. For instance, in Everquest, there were several years where the Enchanter was a completely useless class, same for Shadow Knight. Even when all of the classes were working, class balance was outright broken if dueled. Even Shadowbane, a game sculpted around PVP had completely broken classes.

UO, depending on patch level, had a couple "golden" PVP builds that made all others pretty useless in comparison. These golden builds would always change as the game was modified, making old builds useless and new ones insanely powerful.

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp
Certain asian games lineage etc have always been about grinding, I played bloodymare beta and I cant stress how bad they like to force grinding.

Games like lineage can change your perspective of what grinding is. WoW gamers do not know grinding, at all. Even faction grinding is relatively laid back. There are several areas of EQ that would make the average WoW faction grinder weep. For instance, grinding Icewell faction, then grinding Skyshrine faction, then grinding Kael faction. 3 factions that, as 1 rises, the other 2 usually fall. And of course, then people would raid the bosses of these 3 zones while re-grinding faction as need be to keep themselves at the alignment they needed. Then there was a zone in Luclin that had something like the faction of the Hand, Eye, Mouth, etc. Again, competing factions people would regrind for.

 

[BenSkywalker]

So what you're saying is that your kara geared druid is capable of topping meters against classes like shamans/CoH priests which are MADE to dominate raid healing instances like BT... OR you're extremely good at the druid class and every other healer who has gear designed for the content is poor at their class.

Bloodboil is the ony fight I have not finished above every non druid healer every time(other trees have beaten me on every single one of the fights). Trees rely WAY too much on LB most of the time in T6 fights, particularly for BT where only a couple of fights are well suited for it being the main heal. Also, raid leaders that have druids healing tanks only are simply fools(well, maybe not fools, but far removed from ideal). BB I always get stuck on keeping rolling hots on the three tanks, that's why I lose on that fight(one particular CoH priest spanks me, the rest of them not so much). Mainly what it comes down to is how people build their toons around LB being their heal of choice, it doesn't work well at all for large scale healing. Stacking as much mp5 as possible and using the Rejuv badge idol instead of the LB one out of SL and using Rejuv as your primary heal significantly increases the potency of trees. You need to sacrifice a ton of bonus healing building your toon that way, but overall healing is significantly higher.

If it's the latter, I find it hard to believe that someone so skilled at the druid class to be so poor at the mage class...

We put out about 1800 dps each consistently topping the meters and until our locks/rogues hit 4pc T6 did they start to compete with us.

Your locks suck very, very badly- you also failed to mention your hunters which should also be way ahead of you, along with your rogues in T6 content. Our locks in early T5 were closing in on 2K dps, 1800 until end of BT? They should be close to 2.5K. So yeah, I could compete with them too if they are only pushing 1800dps, that isn't hard at all. Hunters at the upper end are pushing close to 4K dps to give you an idea of what I'm talking about- shadow priests are pushing ~1.7K.

You must be in a very very poor battlegroup to be eating up mages with 0 resilience.

Bloodlust, that would be the top BG in the world, sorry to disappoint. You tell me, how is a mage going to kill a resto druid? Arc Power-POM-Pyro crit is easily countered by a swiftmend, you have a 3 minute CD, I have 15 seconds. 3 stack of LB puts out more hps then your arc missiles could for dps, WE/IV/FB spam requires me to put up 3x LB and a rejuv, with one mage that's it though, still no need for regrowth and certainly nothing that would require me to use any of my more powerful heals(NS+HT or Tranq). There is simply no way a mage can kill a resto druid with remotely comparable gear- and unlike some of the melee classes, it doesn't even matter if the druid has resil or not.

The problem is that we dont stand ANY chance against 2v2 against rogues

Sure you do, just not SL/SL. Felguards are locks counter for rogues, you may not want to go that way, but believe me it works if played properly.

I quit WoW in 2005.

My point, however is that WoW is balanced extremely well.

You have no clue, sorry man Things were a LOT different in 2005 then they are now.

UO, depending on patch level, had a couple "golden" PVP builds that made all others pretty useless in comparison. These golden builds would always change as the game was modified, making old builds useless and new ones insanely powerful.

No different then WoW is now. Arenas have changed the PvP mechanics enormously, and Blizz has attempted to tune the entire game around them(by tuning I mean doing everything they can to make a specific spec druid/warrior tandem damn near unstoppable).

 

[pontifex]

so it sounds like my complaint of no chat going on making the world seem dead still sticks even into the live game

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: pontifex
so it sounds like my complaint of no chat going on making the world seem dead still sticks even into the live game

I've never chatted with anyone man. I've tried but either no one notices or no one cares. It honestly feels like I'm playing Guild Wars to some extent.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: exdeath
Socialism has found it's way to WoW in WotLK. All kinds of nerfs to prevent any kind of stacking and mathematical advantage by those who know how to play. In addition to the practice of welfare epics, all classes are being made more or less the same in 3.0, so anybody and everybody, from veteran Sunwell raiders to newbies can one button face roll their way to Arthas.

/rant

Didnt they get rid of honor pvp sets? Forcing people into the arena's if they want a full pvp set?

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: pontifex
so it sounds like my complaint of no chat going on making the world seem dead still sticks even into the live game

Actually i've found people will talk, you just have to be insistent, I usually ask something twice and by then receive an answer. IMO the main reason no-one talks in /1 or whatever is that they don't see it since the default colour is white! I changed it to pink so it stands out, much better

 

[BuckeyeInNC]

I think WAR is much more dependent upon being a member of a guild. If you are not in a guild, there is very little if any chat going on.

Further, while you CAN level and RvR alone, it is MUCH easier and MUCH more fun to do so in a guild group.

There are also many things that it is impossible to do abent being in a guild, such as capture a keep. This is an integral part of the game.

Want to chat with someone? Join a guild.

I am quite suprised at the mention above regarding any lack of customization of the appearance of a toon. WAR has ten times the amount of control over appearance that WoW provides. The WAR character creation process is far more detailed than what WoW provides.

Now, if you are talking about your appearance from, lets say 50 feet away, yes, the toons do have similar colors and looks. However, I have not seen any armor sets above levels in the 20s, so that may yet come.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: pontifex
so it sounds like my complaint of no chat going on making the world seem dead still sticks even into the live game

Actually i've found people will talk, you just have to be insistent, I usually ask something twice and by then receive an answer. IMO the main reason no-one talks in /1 or whatever is that they don't see it since the default colour is white! I changed it to pink so it stands out, much better

I blame it on the chat spam from NPC's. There's so much of it that it makes it really easy to miss comments/questions from players.

I've seen an increasing amount of banter in PQ and scenario groups though. Seems like people are more comfortable talking once they start to learn more about the game.