Question for Mikewarrior2

jawaki

Member
Jan 9, 2001
81
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I appreciate your efforts in explaining the inaccuracies of cpu temp readings and fallacies of published tests.
You have mentioned many times your take on various fan/heatsink combos throughout the many posts dealing with or related to the topic.

Would it be too much to ask if you could make a list of Heatsinks in order of best performance to worst as well as a list of fans in the same way.
And then a final paragraph on what recomendatios you would give to the novice HS/fan buyer.

I certainly understand if you find this task repetitive or redundant, but I would certainly appreciate you tackling it and I think many others would too.

 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
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I'm still compiling one... And I dont' have some of the newest heatsinks yet, but:

IN general testing so far(heatsink only, haven't tested all the fans yet).

1) Well-Made Hedgehog
2) PEP66 rev. 2
3) FOP38
4) PAL6035 rev. 2
5) Poorly made Hedgehog
6) Vantec (the new big one)
7) FOP32-1
8) TAISOL CGK742092
9) Taisol CEK733092
10) Coolermaster Heat-Pipe model
11) Super-orb
12) Coolermaster Duron REtail sink
13) Chrome orb

By no means is this a complete list, but in general you get the sense of ranking... 1 through 8 are pretty close in performance.


Mike
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
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Conlan,

From my above post

And I dont' have some of the newest heatsinks yet, but:.

Compounded by the fact that is expensive, and I have to buy it, and because I have no way of mounting it on a p3 so I can get internal diode readings(yet, that is).



Mike
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
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0
Galileo,

Pads that are optional on p3s, so you don't have to stick them on for socket-a, and a much tighter clip.


Mike
 

Galileo

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
286
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0
Thanks Mike.

I'm happy to see the PEP66 made second on your list. I had ordered it and got confirmation yesterday of shipping. Don't know about the revision.

I've read Anand's socket hs/f comparisons and I got the impression that it's the fan that make a bigger impact on performance and the heat sink design is secondary. The top of the heap uses the 60x20 Deltas then followed by the YS then the Sunons if I remember. What do you think?
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
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I think base heatsink makes more difference... an Alpha with a quiet fan will perform better than a weak heatsink with a monster fan.


Mike
 

neddog

Member
Jun 21, 2000
198
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0
Mike can u define "Well Made Hedgehog"? Are there some that aren't well made?

NeDDoG
 

pbrain

Senior member
Dec 7, 2000
560
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0
the bottom surface of the hedgehogs have to be lapped smooth for maximum performance, otherwise heat doesn't transfer as well from the processor to the hs.
 

Biggs

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2000
3,010
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0
Mike, is the hedgehog the only one that really needs to be lapped? I mean, do FOP32-1s have uneven surface by default too?
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
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0
the hedgehog doesn't "need" to be lapped. I have one that is good, and one that is so-so.

FOPs have the variance, too. Some FOPs can be good, and other's can be so-so. I have 2 so-so's and 1 fairly good one. Taisol's can be so-so, too. Alpha's are generally a bit better. The orbs generally have poor base quality. The Coolermaster is okay.

If you're looking at max performance with any heatsink, i'd check the base for flatness, and if it isn't that good, i'd go ahead and lap it. Cautery has a good guide for lapping if you search for his username. I work my way up from 600-800-1000-1500-2000 all wet-sanded.


Mike
 

Biggs

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2000
3,010
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0


<< I work my way up from 600-800-1000-1500-2000 all wet-sanded. >>



Mike, what do the numbers mean? Could you explain it a bit more?
 

Mykex

Senior member
Dec 17, 2000
380
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I not the right Mike ....I cant even spell it right but those are grits of sandpaper 600 medium/fine to 2000 ultra fine. The latter would be used for wetsanding automobile paint finishes usualy(my local body shop gave me a few free).
 

smp

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2000
5,215
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76
I assume that the sanding is done by hand, not with a sander? If it is done by hand.... how can one be sure that they aren't creating a minuscule dip, bowl or irregularity...??? I guess you would mount the sandpaper to a sanding block then eh? but even then... If it's only the center that needs to be perfect (the mating point) then I guess it should be okay huh?
 

osage

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
5,686
0
76
I lay the sandpaper on a flat surface, plate glass works well for this, and press the HS to it. I use a circular motion to sand it down. Rotate your grip on the HS often to insure a uniform surface.
 

pbrain

Senior member
Dec 7, 2000
560
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0
the post mike was referring to is no longer on the database, but i made a copy of it for myself for future reference. i'm reposting it for those who didn't see it:

the following was originally posted by cautery on Jul/24/2000 11:18 PM. the threads he lists are now dead links.
Related Threads:
Thermal Tape Selection and Thermal Interface Qualities
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=204693
PIII Coppermine and Heatsinks - quality of the thermal interface...
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=203730
PIII Coppermine Core ? Lapping it flat?
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=203731
FC-PGA Heatsink ?Feet? ? how to get a custom fit
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=203734
Heatsinks: Are they Flat? Answer here?.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=203739
Thermal Interface Materials: Required Thickness?
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=37&amp;threadid=204688

I have discussed several aspects of achieving a GOOD thermal interface in the Related Threads above, but this post contains a key ingredient to accomplishing this:

Q: Is your heatsink mating surface flat?
A: Generally?. No, it is not.

I have examined a number of commercially available heatsinks: generic (show specials), GlobalWin, Alphas, and even The Arctic Circle, and while some of them are flatter than others, in general, NONE of them meet the generally accepted standard for flatness for use in a thermal interface (which is a runout value of 0.001&quot;/inch).

The solution to this reality is simply to lap your processor flat and smooth? Here's how I recommend you do it, unless you happen to have a multi-thousand dollar, multi-axis milling machine available:

Materials:
1 each heatsink to be lapped (disassembled from fan, shrouds, etc)
1 each NEW sheets of 3M brand wet/dry sandpaper in the following grades minimum (180, 220, 320, 600, 1500) You can use progressively higher grades if desired and continue progression to polishing compounds if desired.
1 each 8&quot; x 10&quot; piece of quality double thickness (or better) glass.
CLEAN, preferably distilled water. (actually, a high quality, very light grade of lapping oil is preferable)
Several lint free towels?. I use lens cleaning towelettes.

This is the general procedure. There are tons of additional &quot;anal retentive&quot; measuring tools and techniques that one can use, but for the purpose of this article, you can &quot;get by&quot; with the above.

Place the glass pane on an absolutely clean and flat surface?. Please make sure you clean off your work surface and remove all extraneous materials. Lapping a top quality heatsink should not be done on a computer workstation cluttered with McDonald's trash, pop cans, diskettes, Cds, and paper?.

Dampen the reverse side of the 180 grit sandpaper (beginning grade of paper depends on the amount of material that needs to be removed) with a sponge and clean water?.. Make SURE there is no label/price tag on the reverse side of the paper. The damp paper will adhere to the clean glass better, thus reducing the tendency for it to slide around. Do NOT wrap the paper around the glass, or try to tape the paper down, as this will tend to cause the paper to &quot;bow&quot; up in areas which will radically increase your chances of NOT having a flat lapping surface and causing &quot;rounding&quot; of the edges of the heatsink?. This would be BAD!!!

Now, place some (amount dependent on the size of sink surface to be lapped) clean/distilled water (lapping oil is preferable since it will reduce the tendency of the sink to &quot;suck down&quot; to the wet paper as the surface gets flatter?. This &quot;sucking down' may cause a &quot;hang&quot; which in turn MIGHT cause you to &quot;skip&quot; the edge over and across the paper? possibly rounding the edge) in a single &quot;puddle&quot; in the CENTER of the NEW sheet of paper now located on the glass. It is critical that you use a NEW sheet of paper in PRISTINE condition (no scuffs, or creases?.). Any imperfections in the paper will greatly increase the chances of you getting a less than optimum result.

Place the sink, mating side down, in the center of the water &quot;puddle&quot;. Grasp the sink with your hand, trying to maintain an even (light) pressure across the entire sink. Now begin making small circular patterns with the sink on the paper. As the sink &quot;settles in&quot; you can gradually increase the circle size? to no more than 1.5 times the size of the sink, and maintain LIGHT pressure. Too much pressure, and you will &quot;skip&quot; the sink, plus it's easier to keep the sink flat with a lighter pressure.

Periodically, check your work, rinsing the paper to remove loose grit and waste material. Clean the sink off, and repeat the process until you have a flat surface. This will be evident as the original surface will gradually &quot;disappear&quot;, being replaced with a uniform circular pattern of &quot;scratches&quot; consistent with the grade of paper used. Don't remove more material than necessary to achieve a uniform, flat surface.

The slower and more patient you are, the better your result will be (eg. Less rounding of the edges, etc.). Repeat the above procedure with progressively finer grades of paper/compound until you get the surface quality desired. Wind up the procedure with a thorough rinsing of the bare heatsink, and clean the mating surface thoroughly with a lint-free cloth and alcohol (use a degreaser then alcohol if you use lapping oil).

Reassemble the heatsink/processor assembly as quickly as possible after completion as the newly lapped surface will immediately begin to oxidize. Use the best non-conductive thermal compound you can get your hands on?.

On FC-PGA heatsinks, you'll need to remove the feet to use this procedure?..

Hope this helps?. Have fun.

-------------------------
Clay Autery
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
0
0
Haven't gotten one yet. From what i've seen at the ocworkbench review and talking with other people, its okay, better than the super-orb, but not by much...


Mike
 

Mikewarrior2

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 1999
7,132
0
0
If you want a real heatsink tests, that isn't with compressed to hell results, look at teh ocworkbecnch.com roundup.

Even at ~45W of cpu power, they are getting a much larger delta between heatsinks, nad a much more accurately ranked set of heatsinks than the HardOCP review. The reason? no Socket-thermistor to &quot;fake or cheat&quot; out.


Mike
 
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