Question for the electricians out there

[Cougar]

OK, so I've been upgrading computers like crazy lately and now I've got some extra parts laying around. So I got to thinking what I would do with those parts and it dawned on me that I should build myself a file server. I batted around the idea for a while and it seemed like the right thing to do, but the place where I want to stick the server once it's done doesn't have any outlets. What I want to do is stick it in my closet (which is a small walk-in closet) but within the closet there aren't any outlets. However, right outside the closet (literally on the other side of the wall where I would be putting this PC) is an outlet that's not even being used.

I know absolutely nothing about wiring outlets, nor do I want to learn, but I was wondering if it would be safe to have an extension cord plugged into the outlet and run the other end through the wall. There's already a hole right there from where the cable used to come through so I wouldn't really have to do anything other than maybe widen it a bit. So would it be a fire hazard if I just took my surge protector or extension cord and just popped the one end right through the wall and into the outlet?

 

[Anubis]

it will work fine. you just run the risk of banging the plug and shutting off the comp.

If it were me id cut a whole in the closet and reverse the faceplate and housing for the outlet. making it now inside the closet

 

[orion7144]

You could do that but make sure it is run through a surge protector and you might want to think about putting in a GFCI outlet to replace the old one.

 

[Evadman]

Do not run an extension cord through the wall. It violates so many electrical codes it is not even funny. Just install another outlet. It is extreamly simple to do. electrical boxes are 1.5" deep. The wall is 3". you put the backs together, punch out one of the 5 knockouts in the back of the box, and put a box connector in.

The wires are color coded. black = hot, white = neutral. bare or green = ground, if it was run. (most codes allow the conduit to act as ground)

The wires are screwed in on little screws. there are 2 screws for hot, 2 for ground. Just run wires from the original outlet second screews to the new outlet. It would take all of an hour. Now technicly the screws are not supposed to be used in ths fasion. there are 2 screws so you can wire the outlet into 2 seperate circuits. It is against code, but I have seen profesionals do this. (I caught Pulte doing it in my brother's new house) but it is much safer than an extnsion cord.

If you want to do it the right way, disconnect the wires from the old outlet, and split them. one to the old, one to the new.

Things to remember:
1. White = neutral, black = hot.
2. Turn off the breaker and put a sign on the fuse box so no one turns it back on.
3. Wrap the wires clockwize on the screw terminal (or tighting the screw will unwrap the wire.
4. Black = Hot, White = Neutral.
5. Don't Backwire outlet/switches. Ever. If you don't know what this means, then don't worry. you can't do it if you don't know what it is.
6. Replace the outlet on the other box. outlets are 59 cents from Home Depot.
7. Don't forget your 1/2" mudring. (just ask for it. it will make sense as soon as you see it, trust me)
8. Wrap the outlet with electrical tape. (around the perimiter around the screws) it is a sign of a good electricion. takes 10 seconds.
9. White = Neutral, black = hot
10. the smaller slot in the outlet is the hot slot.

 

[Cougar]

Originally posted by: TheEvil1
it will work fine. you just run the risk of banging the plug and shutting off the comp.

If it were me id cut a whole in the closet and reverse the faceplate and housing for the outlet. making it now inside the closet

I won't really have to worry about knocking the plug out since it's not really out in the open. Although the idea of reversing the outlet sounds interesting...I never even thought of it. It's probably a simple task, but since I've never attempted something like that I may have to ask my brother if he can do it.


orion7144...

I was planning to put a good surge protector in the closet...would want my computer to get zapped since it's going to be storing all my files

Now what exactly is a GFCI outlet?

 

[Cougar]

Evadman...

So it does violate electrical codes...somehow I figured. Since I've started this thread it has reminded me of one very important family fact....my brother knows how to do this stuff! All this time I was racking my brain trying to figure out how I was going to get this computer installed in my closet, and here my brother could just put in a new outlet for me (in fact I was just over his place and he was doing some electrical work there....geez I'm dumb). It's kind of sad that I didn't even think about my brother...my brain must be dying or something.

 

[Evadman]

GFCI = Ground Fault circuit Interupt.

If more amperage flows out through the hot wire then in through the neutral wire, then it trips like a circut breaker. I am sure you have one in your bathroom. it has a red and blue button in the middle of it. one says reset, one says test.

it takes .062 amps across the heart to stop it. a normal 15 amp breaker will trip between 15 and 20 amps or roughly 250 times the leathal amount.

<edit>
In Chicago, running the wires and installing a single outlet runs between $80 and $120. If the power is already there, expect to pay the electrians minimun trip charge. For an experenced electricion, this is a 30 minute job, if that. I could do it in about an hour. If there is no drywall, like it sounds like, it would take all of 10 minutes for me, and all of 45 seconds for an electrican

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: Evadman
Do not run an extension cord through the wall. It violates so many electrical codes it is not even funny. Just install another outlet. It is extreamly simple to do. electrical boxes are 1.5" deep. The wall is 3". you put the backs together, punch out one of the 5 knockouts in the back of the box, and put a box connector in.

The wires are color coded. black = hot, white = neutral. bare or green = ground, if it was run. (most codes allow the conduit to act as ground)

The wires are screwed in on little screws. there are 2 screws for hot, 2 for ground. Just run wires from the original outlet second screews to the new outlet. It would take all of an hour. Now technicly the screws are not supposed to be used in ths fasion. there are 2 screws so you can wire the outlet into 2 seperate circuits. It is against code, but I have seen profesionals do this. (I caught Pulte doing it in my brother's new house) but it is much safer than an extnsion cord.

If you want to do it the right way, disconnect the wires from the old outlet, and split them. one to the old, one to the new.

Things to remember:
1. White = neutral, black = hot.
2. Turn off the breaker and put a sign on the fuse box so no one turns it back on.
3. Wrap the wires clockwize on the screw terminal (or tighting the screw will unwrap the wire.
4. Black = Hot, White = Neutral.
5. Don't Backwire outlet/switches. Ever. If you don't know what this means, then don't worry. you can't do it if you don't know what it is.
6. Replace the outlet on the other box. outlets are 59 cents from Home Depot.
7. Don't forget your 1/2" mudring. (just ask for it. it will make sense as soon as you see it, trust me)
8. Wrap the outlet with electrical tape. (around the perimiter around the screws) it is a sign of a good electricion. takes 10 seconds.
9. White = Neutral, black = hot
10. the smaller slot in the outlet is the hot slot.

Agreed, but shouldn't he pigtail at the point where he puts in the split? Or i guess he could make the current outlet a midrun outlet, pigtailing there, and make the new outlet the endrun box.

 

[MrChicken]

Will you be able to keep it cool in the closet?

 

[simms]

You already should be OC'ing it as we speak. #1 rule.

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: yamahaXS
Agreed, but shouldn't he pigtail at the point where he puts in the split? Or i guess he could make the current outlet a midrun outlet, pigtailing there, and make the new outlet the endrun box.

sorry, my exposition was a little muddled because I was trying to explain too much at once. Technicly, the power and neutral should be pigtailed before it hits either outlet, which was what I was trying to say with the, "If you want to do it the right way, disconnect the wires from the old outlet, and split them. one to the old, one to the new."

In the townships around here, daisy-chaining outlets by connecting power in to one hot terminal, and power out to the other, and not doing a pigtail in the box is against code. I assume that is what you mean by "midrun" outlets. There really isn't a problem doing it in daisy-chain fasion as there is enough metal in the snip tab to carry 15 amps easy. I think it is just because more connections = more chance to screw something up. The Towns around here are so anal when it comes to electricity. For instance, in my town, you MUST run conduit. no NM. Greenfield is limited to 3' runs, and only where rigid would not work. Conduit must be anchored 8" from the box, and every 3' along the run. nail protectors are required EVEN WITH THE RIGID CONDUIT. My town is stupid.

 

[rival]

household elec boxes are generally deeper, and they dont have knockouts out the back (plastic ones anyhow)

cut in boxes are uh, 2" deep i think, if you're adding aplug, use one of those, however you said you didnt want to learn how, etc...

leave the extension cord in there, it wont hurt anything, ive seen far worse installations

its not code, and its ugly, but it'll work

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Evadman
The wires are color coded. black = hot, white = neutral. bare or green = ground, if it was run. (most codes allow the conduit to act as ground)

Since it's alternating current, won't both wires be "hot", with ground the only "neutral" wire? Or is it the same thing, just using different terminology?

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: rival
household elec boxes are generally deeper, and they dont have knockouts out the back (plastic ones anyhow)
cut in boxes are uh, 2" deep i think, if you're adding aplug, use one of those, however you said you didnt want to learn how, etc...
leave the extension cord in there, it wont hurt anything, ive seen far worse installations

Household boxes are 1 1/2" deep.
He doesn't have plastic boxes they are metal. there are 5 knockouts in the back. usually one 3/4" and four 1/2".
extension cords wear out over time, and with part of it hidden in the wall, you are just asking for a fire.
I too have seen worse, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, it is not worth it.

Originally posted by: Marshallj
Since it's alternating current, won't BOTH wires be "hot", with ground the only "neutral" wire?

No. The black (hot) wire caries voltage and amperage. the neutal (white) caries amperage, but the voltage is all used up. (should be zero unless there is a bad connection farther down the line then where you are measuring it)

Residental electricity is 2 phase. so 2 hot wires actually come into the electrical box. that is why there are 2 rows of breakers int he fuse box. the left is one phase, the right is the other. The 2 phases cancel each other out, so in a perfect world, no power goes back through the 3rd neutal wire that is pulled in. (at least in some places. in others, it is just sent to ground) that 3rd wire is uaually very small since the currents usually cancel each other out asuming the electrician did his load balancing correctly. That is why you have tow 0/2 gauge supply lines coming into your home (about the size of your thumb) and a single 4 or 6 gauge wire leaving. My town does not have a neutal return wire, it is sent to ground. a 10 gauge wire is allowed per code. 10 gauge is good to about 60 amps. the homes have 200 amp service. send 200 amps through a 10 gauge wire, and it will glow like a toaster.

 

[Cougar]

Originally posted by: MrChicken
Will you be able to keep it cool in the closet?

sure. The closet itself is a little cooler than my room (I guess 'cause there's no sunlight) and I'm not going to be building a super beast. It's going to be a K6-2 350 with plenty of fans. If it does seem to get warm then I can always address that issue later, but for now I can't think of any reason why it would overheat.


simms...

If this PC were to be used in any other fashion other than a dumping ground for my files then I'd probably give it a shot. However since it's just going to be a network hard drive I think I'll just leave it as-is for now

 

[Cougar]

Originally posted by: Evadman
GFCI = Ground Fault circuit Interupt.

If more amperage flows out through the hot wire then in through the neutral wire, then it trips like a circut breaker. I am sure you have one in your bathroom. it has a red and blue button in the middle of it. one says reset, one says test.

it takes .062 amps across the heart to stop it. a normal 15 amp breaker will trip between 15 and 20 amps or roughly 250 times the leathal amount.

<edit>
In Chicago, running the wires and installing a single outlet runs between $80 and $120. If the power is already there, expect to pay the electrians minimun trip charge. For an experenced electricion, this is a 30 minute job, if that. I could do it in about an hour. If there is no drywall, like it sounds like, it would take all of 10 minutes for me, and all of 45 seconds for an electrican

Well, if it will only take you 10 minutes, then how's a road trip to pittsburgh sound?

 

[rival]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: rival
household elec boxes are generally deeper, and they dont have knockouts out the back (plastic ones anyhow)
cut in boxes are uh, 2" deep i think, if you're adding aplug, use one of those, however you said you didnt want to learn how, etc...
leave the extension cord in there, it wont hurt anything, ive seen far worse installations

Household boxes are 1 1/2" deep.
He doesn't have plastic boxes they are metal. there are 5 knockouts in the back. usually one 3/4" and four 1/2".
extension cords wear out over time, and with part of it hidden in the wall, you are just asking for a fire.
I too have seen worse, but for the amount of time it would take to do it right, it is not worth it.

ah, didnt know they were metal boxes, as he never stated

never seen a 1.5" deep plastic box though

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: rival

ah, didnt know they were metal boxes, as he never stated
never seen a 1.5" deep plastic box though

Plastic boxes are not code within 50 miles of me, so I do not know how deep they are. you very well be correct on the 2" depth. I was making the assumption that his box is metal baised on the fact that 99.999% of electricians will not use a plastic box because it makes them do more work to install it. ( you must run a seperate ground, which is 1/3 more work right there) and you need special stuff for install, and plastic is not as forgiving. if you mess up and mount a metal box to far forward, you hit it with a hammer till it moves back. can't do that with plastic.

Originally posted by: Cougar
Well, if it will only take you 10 minutes, then how's a road trip to pittsburgh sound?

Tell ya what, you bring your house to Chicago, and I will do it for a 2 liter of coke.

 

[orion7144]

Don't think I read the most important thing here.... If you do anything with that box.... TURN OFF THE POWER FIRST.... It must be said with all of the suggestions here...

 

[CPA]

Just install a new outlet in the closet like evadman said. It is so easy it is rediculous. There are usually instructions in the package with visuals. The hardest part doesn't even deal with the outlet or the wiring, it's securing the box to the 2x4 in the wall. It can be a pain to set the box in there and nail it up, but once you get that done, putting the wires in the outlet is a snap. Just remember to switch off your breaker before you start.

 

[orion7144]

There are also the new plastic boxes that you don't have to nail. They have tabs that hold in the wall.