Question for the X1800XT owners

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5

but don't want to drop $500 for the privilege. XLs can be had pretty cheap now.

$399 in stock

Err, no thanks, they're not a great investment as you can see in my post above.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo
What I was getting at is the people who bought X1800XTs for $600+:
a. Have the third fastest card on the market for $600+
b. Had it de-valued by ATI when they discontinued it
c. Could have had a much faster card for the same money a couple weeks later
d. Waited a year for a.,b.,c.

That stuff is known as "rough breaks". Whether it's "almost as fast as a 512GTX with the new drivers!" or not, check out EBay "Completed Items".

Three 512 GTXs sold this weekend for $760., $900., and $976.. Those cards actually appreciated in value.

Now look at the X1800XTs. 6/7 sold this weekend went for $370- $400.. Those guys lost $100-$300 on their purchase within 60 days because ATI hung them out to dry.
(the one card that sold for $484 was an Asus with a game pad and a bunch of games)

You can't tell me this isn't a "topic" when people are losing their shirts over this and the price is going to fall lower still with the X1900XTs falling.

I'd imagine anyone who spends $500+ on a video card participates in a video forum somewhere and follows the news in the graphics biz. So they would have heard that the 1900 cards were coming.

Although you could have done them a service by warning them to wait for the 1900's. You always seem to be on the ball ready to warn people against buying ATI cards when there's new Nvidia cards rumored to be released.

 

[5150Joker]

There was so much information about the R580 coming in January that anyone that was willing to fork over $500+ for an X1800XT would have known about it. That's why all the responses we've seen in this thread by X1800XT owners are positive since they were already aware of the R580 and purchased the R520 because they chose to. Unfortunately for nVidia 5800 owners back in the day, I doubt they knew the 5900 was coming so soon to ruin their investments and make them "lose their shirts". The way I look at it is that if ATi hadn't released R520 and instead now released R580, nVidia fans would have pointed out, "OMG almost 1 yr later and it barely beats a 512 GTX, ATi is the sux0r". Now that it's considered a refresh part with no competition, it is seen in a very different (positive) light. I feel sorry for the suckers that bought a 512 GTX for $750-$900, come 7900 GTX they're going to "lose their shirts" when the value of that card plummets.

 

[RobertR1]

Originally posted by: Rollo
What I was getting at is the people who bought X1800XTs for $600+:
a. Have the third fastest card on the market for $600+
b. Had it de-valued by ATI when they discontinued it
c. Could have had a much faster card for the same money a couple weeks later
d. Waited a year for a.,b.,c.

That stuff is known as "rough breaks". Whether it's "almost as fast as a 512GTX with the new drivers!" or not, check out EBay "Completed Items".

Three 512 GTXs sold this weekend for $760., $900., and $976.. Those cards actually appreciated in value.

Now look at the X1800XTs. 6/7 sold this weekend went for $370- $400.. Those guys lost $100-$300 on their purchase within 60 days because ATI hung them out to dry.
(the one card that sold for $484 was an Asus with a game pad and a bunch of games)

You can't tell me this isn't a "topic" when people are losing their shirts over this and the price is going to fall lower still with the X1900XTs falling.

If you believe the 7800GTX 512 will have appreciation vs. depreceation over the course of it's lifespan, you should stop talking.

The people who're paying $900 for a card that gets beat by a cheaper card are fools, not smart decision makers.

A x1800xt user might lose $100-$300 but a 7800GTX 512 owner stands to lose $300-600+ on their purchase if they choose to follow a refresh upgrade cycle.

The 7800GTX 512 has a much more negative economic effect if you choose to upgrade to a 7900GTX, considering the street price of the 7800GTX 512. This street price will drop like a brick once the 7900 series cards arrive. Only a die hard or uninformed buyer would pay $900 for a 7800GTX 512 today.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
Although you could have done them a service by warning them to wait for the 1900's. You always seem to be on the ball ready to warn people against buying ATI cards when there's new Nvidia cards rumored to be released.

If I had friends at ATI and could get information from them I would have Morph.

On the bright side, anyone who listened to me and bought a 512GTX is obviously in good shape.

 

[irev210]

I had the x1800xt and now I have the x1900xtx

Everyone makes the x1800xt to be a far worse performing card than people think.


I would say Id rather have a 1800xt over a 7800GT

and with people scrambling to sell them to buy a x1900XTX, you can pick one up on the cheap.


If i knew what the words "budget" ment, thats what I would have done.

 

[buzzsaw13]

Originally posted by: irev210
I had the x1800xt and now I have the x1900xtx

Everyone makes the x1800xt to be a far worse performing card than people think.


I would say Id rather have a 1800xt over a 7800GT

and with people scrambling to sell them to buy a x1900XTX, you can pick one up on the cheap.


If i knew what the words "budget" ment, thats what I would have done.

I was looking for a 7800GT for the past couple weeks, and with the price drops I decided to go with the x1800xt

 

[boyRacer]

I would be pissed if I paid full price.

There was a bunch of 1900XTX at Fry's last @ $650. They were all gone today.

 

[tuteja1986]

i owned a x1800xl but i paid about $100AUD. i also owned a 7800gtx which i paid $500AUD. i sold them both and bought a x1900xt and Asus A8N32-SLI mobo.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: bR
I would be pissed if I paid full price.

There was a bunch of 1900XTX at Fry's last @ $650. They were all gone today.

Some people have too much money The XTX is not worth $650 any more than the GTX512 is worth $750+.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Now that it's considered a refresh part with no competition, it is seen in a very different (positive) light.

No competition? That is stretching it a little 5150:

HL2 Lost Coast 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 47fps 512GTX 61fps X1900XTX 66fps

You're a better man than I if you can eyeball the difference in 61 and 65fps. (and it's 47/51 with HDR on)

Quake4 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 48fps 512GTX 59fps X1900XTX 58fps

Basically a tie again.

IL2 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 42fps 512GTX 54fps X1900XTX 36fps

Obviously a driver issue here, but I think we can guess the X1900XTX isn't going to rock the IL2 and PF flight sims like it does BF2 and FEAR.

BF2 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 68fps 512GTX 60fps X1900XTX 85fps

A big win for the X1900XTX.

FEAR 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 24fps 512GTX 23fps X1900XTX 34fps

A big win for the X1900XTX.

COD2 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 22fps 512GTX 21fps X1900XTX 26fps

Back to meaningless differences.

SS2 20X15 4X16X

X1800XT 41fps 512GTX 52fps X1900XTX 49fps

Another virtual tie.

So in the seven popular games FS tested, the X1900XTX decidedly won two games, and basically tied on the other five. (with one unknown due to driver issue)

That is not a card "without competition" to me? Head over to HardOCP or nVNews and check out all the guys that have these cards (or two) if you think no one is buying them.

I will make this wager as well:

I bet the first week of March, prior to 7900GTX launch, the 512s command at least $200 more resale value than a XTX as well. So I'd say the 512s are competing pretty fair on the benches, and totally dominating on the re-sale value so far.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: rbV5

but don't want to drop $500 for the privilege. XLs can be had pretty cheap now.

$399 in stock

Err, no thanks, they're not a great investment as you can see in my post above.

The one where your finger is "On the buy button" or the one where the ebay fellas are jumping out the windows because the bottom just fell out of their "investment" LOL The horror!!!!

 

[Munky]

There was someone on this forum about 3 months ago, who posted that the r520 was really a pawn card for Nv. It didnt make much sence back then, but it seems like he was right in retrospect. The basic idea was that whether or not Nvidia took the bait and responded to the r520 would determine who had the upper hand in the price war that would follow.

Case1:
1. Ati launches r520, with higher price and performance than the gtx256
2. Nv responds by lowering prices on the gtx
3. Ati is forced to lower the price also, only they're taking bigger losses from higher cost of fixing the issues that caused the delay
4. Nv sits tight and further reduces prices, getting more and more people to buy NV parts
5. Ati is forced to release the r580, priced high to make up for the money lost on the r520
6. Nv releases a 7900u, priced lower than the r580, threby stealing most sales from Ati

Case2:
1. Ati launches r520, with higher price and performance than the gtx256
2. Nv responds by lowering prices on the gtx
3. Ati is forced to lower the price also, only they're taking bigger losses from higher cost of fixing the issues that caused the delay
4. Nv releases a 7800u, but with higher prices to cover the cost of a faster card
5. Ati drops the prices on the r520, and releases the faster r580 priced below the cost of the 7800u, and steals the sales from Nv

Something to that effect...

 

[5150Joker]

Rollo,

512 GTX is virtually unavailable at astronomical prices. I'm well aware of it being close to the XTX in some games and faster in certain (OGL) games but if it isn't readily available at the same price point, then the XTX has no mass available single card competitor. Also the title of this thread is in regards to X1800XT owners. If you look at relative value drop between the X1800XT and the 512 GTX after the 7900 GTX is released (if in quantity), you will find people that bought the 512 GTX will "lose their shirts" in percent and dollar of value loss. X1900 XTX will still stay within the $550 range after G71, I can almost gurantee that and a "PE" edition of the X1900 will probably surface at the $650 range to compete against the G71.

Simple math based on G71 launch assuming its available in quantity-

Current street value vs. Going value after G71:

1. 512 GTX: $750-$900+..say average price is $800 vs $550 (keeping it in line with the XTX)
2. X1800XT: $500 vs ~$350-$400
3. X1900XTX: $650 vs $550

Percent loss:

1. 512 GTX: 31.25% loss in value
2. X1800XT: 20-30% loss in value
3. X1900XTX: 15.3% loss in value

Dollar loss:

1. 512 GTX: $250
2. X1800XT: $150
3. X1900XTX: $100


So in the end, worst case scenario 512 GTX guys will equal the X1800XT owners in percent loss but in terms of real dollars, they will lose more. X1900 XTX should fall into the XT's current price range upon release of the G71 and/or R580 PE/R590.

 

[nRollo]

Those are interesting scenarios Munky, and we'll probably never know, but I wonder how many people are buying X1900XTXs with the 7900GTXs less than six weeks away and rumors of amazing specs like 32 700-750 MHz pipes, 1800 MHz RAM, and possibly 24 ROPs?

It would be quite an advance, and if priced similarly to the X1900XTX, I know which I'd rather have.

Just a thought.

The X1900XT(X)s are great cards though, and I can find no fault with them. Priced right, perform great.

 

[Stoneburner]

Since there is no x1900xl yet, i see no reason to complain, and wouldn't care anyway. There's always something better waiting.

 

[Matt2]

We waited almost six months for the 7800GTX to have any competition AT ALL. I think it's reasonable for us to wait a little over a month before crowning the X1900XTX as the winner of this refresh war or claiming that it has no competition at all.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Those are interesting scenarios Munky, and we'll probably never know, but I wonder how many people are buying X1900XTXs with the 7900GTXs less than six weeks away and rumors of amazing specs like 32 700-750 MHz pipes, 1800 MHz RAM, and possibly 24 ROPs?

Nice job of inflating the rumored specs even further. Lol.

 

[fstime]

I didn't hear Rollo promoting the R520 when it was rummored to have 32 pipes, 700 mhz, etc, etc.

Tisk tisk

All I have to say is, the 7900GTX specs are just rumors, it can end up being slower or faster but all that matters is, the x1900XTX is the fastest NOW.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Rollo
Those are interesting scenarios Munky, and we'll probably never know, but I wonder how many people are buying X1900XTXs with the 7900GTXs less than six weeks away and rumors of amazing specs like 32 700-750 MHz pipes, 1800 MHz RAM, and possibly 24 ROPs?

Nice job of inflating the rumored specs even further. Lol.

either nvidia are hell lucky at getting good die on the kind of spec you are thinking about or this video card would be nothing but a 7800gtx 512MB that would cost $750.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: M0RPH

Originally posted by: Rollo
Those are interesting scenarios Munky, and we'll probably never know, but I wonder how many people are buying X1900XTXs with the 7900GTXs less than six weeks away and rumors of amazing specs like 32 700-750 MHz pipes, 1800 MHz RAM, and possibly 24 ROPs?

Nice job of inflating the rumored specs even further. Lol.

You'll have to whine to XBit and the Chinese about that one Morph:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20060124235047.html

The high-end GeForce 7900 GTX is projected to feature 32 pixel processors, operate in the range of 700MHz ? 750MHz and come equipped with 1600MHz ? 1800MHz GDDR3 memory.

As for the 24 ROPs, it was in that thread about the rumored X1900XTX specs, with a link to a Chinese website. (HKEPC?)

I've heard nothing about these parts yet, just repeating what I've read.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I didn't hear Rollo promoting the R520 when it was rummored to have 32 pipes, 700 mhz, etc, etc.

Tisk tisk

All I have to say is, the 7900GTX specs are just rumors, it can end up being slower or faster but all that matters is, the x1900XTX is the fastest NOW.

Funny, I never heard the fanATIcs submit to the 7800GTX being the fastest card for five months.

Dont let the swinging door hit you in the face BouZouki, it does swing both ways.

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I didn't hear Rollo promoting the R520 when it was rummored to have 32 pipes, 700 mhz, etc, etc.

Tisk tisk

All I have to say is, the 7900GTX specs are just rumors, it can end up being slower or faster but all that matters is, the x1900XTX is the fastest NOW.

Funny, I never heard the fanATIcs submit to the 7800GTX being the fastest card for five months.

Dont let the swinging door hit you in the face BouZouki, it does swing both ways.

You didn't, really?

Thats something then, I think thats because we all knew this captain obvious.

Were people supposed to compare the GTX to a last gen ATI card at the time?


And your statement is completly off topic with my post.



I had the GTX for a few months while it was the fastest and the best but guess what, it doesn't have the throne anymore.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I didn't hear Rollo promoting the R520 when it was rummored to have 32 pipes, 700 mhz, etc, etc.

Tisk tisk

All I have to say is, the 7900GTX specs are just rumors, it can end up being slower or faster but all that matters is, the x1900XTX is the fastest NOW.

Funny, I never heard the fanATIcs submit to the 7800GTX being the fastest card for five months.

Dont let the swinging door hit you in the face BouZouki, it does swing both ways.

You didn't, really?

Thats something then, I think thats because we all knew this captain obvious.

Were people supposed to compare the GTX to a last gen ATI card at the time?


And your statement is completly off topic with my post.



I had the GTX for a few months while it was the fastest and the best but guess what, it doesn't have the throne anymore.

Captain obvious huh?

You must have missed the millions of threads stating that the 7800 series wasnt worth it and to wait for the R520.

Countless members were pimping their inferior X800 cards all the way up to the X1800XT release.

Others even stated that their X850XT PE was just as fast as a 7800GT, what a joke.

Now all the sudden ATI fans are rushing to get their X1900 cards because it's the "fastest" card out right now.

I didnt see very many ATI fans dumping their X800 cards for the 7800 series which was faster in all resolutions and IQ modes and offered countless technological bonuses (SM 3.0, HDR, transparency AA, gamma correct AA, the list goes on).

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo

I've heard nothing about these parts yet, just repeating what I've read.

Let's see, with these rumors and also the rumor that they would be beefing up their shader processing, this baby should be able to render a life-size hologram of Jessica Alba in 8192x2048x2048 resolution with full AA/AF. I can't wait!