Question on my build

[Stg-Flame]

PC is finished. Thanks for all who helped. Any and all information was greatly appreciated.

Last post is another 'Thank You'

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

You won't be disappointed with a 4800 series card

 

[Stg-Flame]

Regardless, I would like to stick with nVidia and the 4800 series seems a bit pricey at the moment. If the 4800 is cheaper and more powerful (best bang for my buck is what I'm looking for) than any of the single-GPU nVidia cards, then I might look into buying one.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Looks like I am going to go with OCZ 4GB of RAM rather than G Skill or Crucial.

EDIT: f I switch to an HD 48XX card, would I have to change any of the above configuration to work with ATI?

Also, since I value the opinion of Anandtech over miscellaneous reviews, what is the general consensus for GPUs right now: nVidia or ATI? Bare in mind, I want the best bang for my buck and I am not going for SLi or Crossfire at this juncture.

 

[DSF]

Bang for the buck is one of those questions that has supporting evidence, but not a whole lot in the way of hard facts.

Let's say you have two games, we'll call them MurderDeathKill and AwesomeArmyStrategies. Now say the ATI OMG9000QPX gets 30 FPS on MurderDeathKill and 22 on AwesomeArmyStrategies. In our little example, the Nvidia WTF6Z2 LOL Edition gets 26 FPS on each. Assuming the cards are priced equally, which is the better buy? For someone who only plays one game or the other, the answer is obvious. What if you play both, but like one slightly better? It's a subjective question.

That doesn't even take into account AA performance, monitor sizes, image quality, etc.

The next best thing is to look at some reviews that have comparative benchmarks. The HD4850 is usually selling for a tad more than the 8800 series cards, but it's also a little bit faster, and supposedly runs quite hot. (Then again, the same complaint was made about the 8800GT when it came out, and it ended up being a non-issue.) The most important thing is to find, if you can, benchmarks looking at the games you want to play at the resolution(s) you use and see how the cards compare.

Anandtech's review of the 4870 and 4850 is here:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341
The benchmarks begin around page 12 or 13 if you don't want to read the entire thing.

All of that said, the general AT consensus is that the 4850 is the card to buy right now, because it's faster across the board without being too much more expensive. There are also a number of combo deals on Newegg with worthwhile items like Intel CPUs and P45 motherboards that bring down the price of certain models of the 4850.

 

[gp79]

you can get a 4850 for the same price as a "cheap 8800GT". Based on the reviews it looks like a really good price/performance deal (I bought a 4850 for my new build last week). Its worth a look at least.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Interesting. I have been looking into the 9800GTXs ever since my friend ordered his parts two nights ago. I am willing to spend around $320 on a GPU and I do want the best. He is only paying $299 (or so he says) at Newegg and for that price, I would be more than willing to try it out. I was, however, trying to avoid the dual-GPU cards as much as possible and wait for the 10 series which are supposed to revert back to the single-card GPU.

Regardless, if I were to go with a 9800GTX, would my Mobo/case support it? The mobo is obvious for the PCI-E 16 2.0 slots, but the case would be only for a matter of space. I have never seen any of the newer GPUs, but I have heard they are extremely long; which usually leaves little room for cable management and such.

Also, I plan on buying some, if not most, of my parts on Wednesday when I get paid (I love weekly pay-days) and the rest on the following week. I am not sure which parts I want to buy right now, but I know I want my monitor, case, OS, Mouse, Keyboard, and possibly my GPU and/or RAM - all depending on how much money I have.

The last thing I was not decided upon was my motherboard. I know that eVGA has some good mobos out there, but the last time I checked, the Gigabyte P35 was highly recommended.

Lastly, does anyone see anything wrong with this build if I were to add 9800GTX? Or would I have to change my motherboard/PSU?

Any information ASAP is greatly appreciated. I know that I will be getting the Wolfdale, Mouse, Keyboard, Case, OS, Monitor, and RAM. The rest is speculation and dependent upon the information I receive here.

Thanks again for all the help thus far.

 

[DSF]

I don't recommend the 9800GTX. It's essentially an overclocked 8800GTS, and is only 5-10% faster.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: DSF
I don't recommend the 9800GTX. It's essentially an overclocked 8800GTS, and is only 5-10% faster.

The 9800GTX is only $209 right now. According to the reviews at Newegg, the 9800GTX is capable of overclocking to 800/2300. I do plan on overclocking my GPU and CPU, so if I can get an 8800GTS for cheaper, while still being able to match the 9800GTX in power, I am all for that.

Like I said previously, I am not a fan of dual-GPU cards. I would much rather buy an extremely powerful single-GPU card over a dual.

Also, I am going to buy some of my parts tomorrow when I deposit my check. If I cannot decide on a GPU by tomorrow (this is where I need the most information on GPU's) then I might just hold off on buying it until the following week.

 

[Denithor]

First, DSF gets points for creative video card names. Had me laughing out loud there.

On to the build. Personally, I would avoid OCZ memory (I've got a pair of Gold DDR2 sticks here that won't boot in 8 different motherboards, only work in a crappy ASRock board that won't OC at all). And go with a P45 motherboard, they OC easier/better and don't really cost much more.

Mushkin 2x2GB DDR2-800 $72 AR
Gigabyte EP45-DS3L $117

If you're willing to spend $300 on a video card and prefer nVidia go with the EVGA GTX 260 ($300 FS). It'll eat your friend's 9800GTX for breakfast, lunch, or dinner and won't break a sweat doing it. And it overclocks well and overclocking damage is covered by EVGA's warranty so no worries.

 

[modoheo]

There's no question that I would get the ATI 4870 if I were you - throw brand loyalty out the window and go with the best product. The 4870 can be had for less than 300 bucks and beats every nVidia card in most benchmarks except for the GTX280, which is still going for about $450. Just as a matter of information, the 4870X2 will be out in a month, and will destroy every nVidia configuration in most benchmarks, including two GTX280's in SLI. Of course, it'll cost about 500 bucks or so as well.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: Denithor
First, DSF gets points for creative video card names. Had me laughing out loud there.

On to the build. Personally, I would avoid OCZ memory (I've got a pair of Gold DDR2 sticks here that won't boot in 8 different motherboards, only work in a crappy ASRock board that won't OC at all). And go with a P45 motherboard, they OC easier/better and don't really cost much more.

Mushkin 2x2GB DDR2-800 $72 AR
Gigabyte EP45-DS3L $117

If you're willing to spend $300 on a video card and prefer nVidia go with the EVGA GTX 260 ($300 FS). It'll eat your friend's 9800GTX for breakfast, lunch, or dinner and won't break a sweat doing it. And it overclocks well and overclocking damage is covered by EVGA's warranty so no worries.

Hahaha, when I asked my roommate about Mushkin RAM, he told me they were sold out and not to even bother looking. He bought individual sticks of OCZ Reaper and payed around $200 for it. The Motherboard is what I was never really sure on, so thanks for that.

As for the GPU, I am a bit confused. The GTX 260 only has a core clock of 575 whereas the 9800GTX has a core clock of 700+ and is capable of overclocking to 800. I was under the assumption that the core clock was what counted aside from the VRAM (Core>VRAM>Memory>Shader>etc.). Correct me if I am wrong (which seems to be so).

Thanks again for the information. I am going to order the OS, CPU, Case, Monitor, and other miscellaneous items tonight. I shall save the GPU, RAM, Mobo and a few other components for next week.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
As for the GPU, I am a bit confused. The GTX 260 only has a core clock of 575 whereas the 9800GTX has a core clock of 700+ and is capable of overclocking to 800. I was under the assumption that the core clock was what counted aside from the VRAM (Core>VRAM>Memory>Shader>etc.). Correct me if I am wrong (which seems to be so).

Core clock only matters if you're comparing two graphics cards with the same core architecture, and even then only if other factors like stream processing units and memory size and bandwidth are relatively equal.

Kind of like how a single core on a 2.4GHz Core2Duo is much faster than even a 3+Ghz Pentium 4.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Originally posted by: DSF

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
As for the GPU, I am a bit confused. The GTX 260 only has a core clock of 575 whereas the 9800GTX has a core clock of 700+ and is capable of overclocking to 800. I was under the assumption that the core clock was what counted aside from the VRAM (Core>VRAM>Memory>Shader>etc.). Correct me if I am wrong (which seems to be so).

Core clock only matters if you're comparing two graphics cards with the same core architecture, and even then only if other factors like stream processing units and memory size and bandwidth are relatively equal.

Kind of like how a single core on a 2.4GHz Core2Duo is much faster than even a 3+Ghz Pentium 4.

So what does matter on a GPU? I know everything is important in one way or another, but when comparing two GPUs (lets say the GTX 260 and the BFG 9800GTX), what are the most significant specifications to look for?

 

[DSF]

I wouldn't look at the specs at all, I'd look at benchmarks like I said earlier. Much simpler.

 

[Stg-Flame]

But don't the benchmarks vary from game to game? I don't just play a few games here and there, I have a myriad of games on my PC that I play regularly (when I'm not at work or school).

I shall check the benchmarks, but I cannot guarantee I will be satisfied since I know the specs are there and I want to know which specs are more important.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Chaoticpenguin666
But don't the benchmarks vary from game to game? I don't just play a few games here and there, I have a myriad of games on my PC that I play regularly (when I'm not at work or school).

I shall check the benchmarks, but I cannot guarantee I will be satisfied since I know the specs are there and I want to know which specs are more important.

That's why most reviews include benchmark tests from several different games, usually four or five but sometimes as many as ten or so. In general though, the results are pretty consistent. In other words, toss-ups like the one in my hypothetical example don't happen all the time. Usually if a card is better, it's better in 8/10 games or more.

This review by Anandtech compares just about every currently relevant graphics card:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=13

I linked to a page in the middle of the review where the game benchmarks begin, and there are more benchmarks on subsequent pages.

 

[Stg-Flame]

I have my Vista picked out and ready to order. The PSU I have found no complaints with from other people and the mobo I am slowly working out on the Motherboard-dedicated board.

 

[Stg-Flame]

My GPU I am still working on figuring out. The 260 looks very good from the benchmarks, but after I priced everything at Newegg, I finally got an idea of how much money I will be spending. I am going to order most of my parts tomorrow so I can add a few items with my order, for my roommate.

Also, I was wondering if I even need a heatsink with my case. I am going to overclock the CPU, but I am unsure if I should spend an extra $50 right now on a new heatsink that I might not even need.

Either way, the only thing I am stuck on right now is the motherboard. I have found some with only two PCI-E slots and some with as much as four. Ever since the GX2 cards were released, I lost track of all the PCI-E 2.0 and such - in other words, I am beyond clueless when it comes to motherboards.

I will be ordering: the Case, RAM, Mouse, Monitor, DVD Drive, and the OS tomorrow. The rest I will leave for next pay-day since the PSU, HDD, and CPU will be around $450 by themselves. Tack on another $300 for my GPU and those four items are more expensive than my first six which leaves me with additional parts left unordered.

Longer process than I had hoped for, but I can only hope the end-result is worth the trouble and effort.

 

[DSF]

If you're going to overclock more than a little bit, you'll probably want a heatsink, but that doesn't mean you need to spend $50. The heatsink that comes with the E8400 isn't very beefy.

 

[Stg-Flame]

I had planned on getting a new heatsink. The local computer store sells Golden Orbs for $18 and I was thinking of getting that. I just need to see how everything fits before I modify anything.

 

[Stg-Flame]

List is updated. I think I am set on everything except the motherboard. ASUS and abit are looking much better than the Gigabyte, but I am still unsure which one to get. I don't plan on going with RAID, SLi, or Crossfire, so I don't need those features, but I do need one that is stable enough to warrant some decent to heavy overclocking on my CPU and GPU.

 

[Stg-Flame]

Well, everything except my HDD is ordered (boss cut my hours and was forced to drop something from my second order). I have already received my monitor, case, RAM, mouse, and DVD Drive, but my OS was not packaged in the first order as it should have been. I called Newegg and they said they would send a replacement on Next Day Shipping for free.

So far, nothing is broken on the case, but I need my PSU to see if the fans work and if the LEDs light-up. The monitor has no dead or stuck pixels and the mouse is working great.

I still need an ordinary keyboard, but I would rather go to Staples or somewhere local to buy that. No need to pay S&H for something I can pay $10 for.

 

[tjpark1111]

what matters on a GPU is the number of shader processors and pixel pipelines. You could have a 2gb x1300 at 1ghz and it still wouldn't be faster than a significantly downclocked 4850 because it has more of the pipelines and of course uses a different architecture. just a note....

 

[Stg-Flame]

Hmm, I cannot find the number of Shader processors (processing cores?) on the GTX 260 compared to the 9800GTX nor can I find the pixel pipelines. I am looking at Newegg, if that makes any difference.