Question raised by "Sicko"

tfcmasta97

Platinum Member
Feb 7, 2004
2,003
0
0
I just saw Sicko and have also been reading some health-care related things lately and am curious.

What % of Americans are actually fully covered in case of medical disasters like cancers and tumors etc. with insurance rates that would remain affordable [Ie: the rates dont jump to $10,000+/month]

I hear so much negatives about it, but I havent seen any actual number on who are/arent covered.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Originally posted by: tfcmasta97
I just saw Sicko and have also been reading some health-care related things lately and am curious.

What % of Americans are actually fully covered in case of medical disasters like cancers and tumors etc. with insurance rates that would remain affordable [Ie: the rates dont jump to $10,000+/month]

I hear so much negatives about it, but I havent seen any actual number on who are/arent covered.

A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

Because we eat corn syrup, flour, beer, and hydrogenated oils whereas most other nations consume more wine, olive oil, steamed vegetables.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

Life expectancy has nothing to do with quality of health care. The USA suffers from more gun violence, more deaths from car accidents, higher obesity, etc etc. These factors lower the life expectancy in the USA and has nothing to do with the health care system.

If you want to make a closer "apples to apples" comparison, use survivability rates and early detection rates. Statistics that the USA leads in if I'm not mistaken.

Another example of this is how the infant mortality rate is counted in the USA compared to European countries and I believe Canada. The USA counts every infant death in their statistics. Even those infant deaths from premature births. Most European countries do not.

As to the OP's point, we constantly hear about '47 million uninsured'. What you don't hear is that 10 million of that number is illegal aliens. Another 17 million is people who can afford insurance but elect not to (incomes over $50k). Taking those two numbers out of the equation you come to 20 million uninsured or less than 7 percent of the population. 45 percent of that number will get insurance within 4 months because they are currently transitioning between jobs.

Link

The Kaiser Family Foundation, a liberal non-profit frequently quoted by the media, puts the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for current government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 13.9 million and 8.2 million. That is a much smaller figure than the media report.

Kaiser?s 8.2 million figure for the chronically uninsured only includes those uninsured for two years or more.
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?
 

ja1484

Platinum Member
Dec 31, 2007
2,438
2
0

This is definitely the appropriate forum for this topic. Totally. No Question.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Here is a bunch of science supporting my claim that healthy eating is very beneficial to health, and prevents major disorders such as heart disease and cancer.

http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=132
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=40
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=104
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=43
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=9



Now that we've got that out of the way, please tell me how politicians that are funded by corporate medical interests, such as Hillary Clinton, could device socialized medicine that isn't in the interest of the corporations taking away your money.

Don't be mistaken that I support the status quo. I'm for going back to free markets. Corporatism doesn't work.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

Life expectancy has nothing to do with quality of health care. The USA suffers from more gun violence, more deaths from car accidents, higher obesity, etc etc. These factors lower the life expectancy in the USA and has nothing to do with the health care system.

If you want to make a closer "apples to apples" comparison, use survivability rates and early detection rates. Statistics that the USA leads in if I'm not mistaken.

Another example of this is how the infant mortality rate is counted in the USA compared to European countries and I believe Canada. The USA counts every infant death in their statistics. Even those infant deaths from premature births. Most European countries do not.

IIRC everything you mentioned has been debunked. This is issue has come up before, and the exact same "reasons" you give have been proven not to apply. For example statistics comparing things like gun deaths are not used in the comparisons. In fact, most of the comparisons go to great length to eliminate exogenous causes from disease and illness causes.
Can you show your resources? Or is this perhaps an example of "truthiness". Meaning it sounds like its true because you expect it to be true, and for no other reason.

 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?

There is absolutely no evidence showing that the extended life span has anything to do with UHC.

There is however mountains of scientific studies showing how things like steamed vegetables and fish, which are a large part of the Japanese diet, work to protect against heart disease and cancer.

The burden of proof is on you now.
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?

There is absolutely no evidence showing that the extended life span has anything to do with UHC.

There is however mountains of scientific studies showing how things like steamed vegetables and fish work to protect against heart disease and cancer.

The burden of proof is on you now.

I asked what the cancer survival rate was, not incidence of cancer. Please learn to read.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
4
0
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?

There is absolutely no evidence showing that the extended life span has anything to do with UHC.

There is however mountains of scientific studies showing how things like steamed vegetables and fish work to protect against heart disease and cancer.

The burden of proof is on you now.


Well, the same mountains of scientific evidence pertains to UHC and what you list.
Basically, its a correlation. People who eat steamed veggies, etc get less heart disease and cancer, people with UHC live longer.
Neither is "proof" but both are correlative evidence. And one is as valid as the other.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?

There is absolutely no evidence showing that the extended life span has anything to do with UHC.

There is however mountains of scientific studies showing how things like steamed vegetables and fish work to protect against heart disease and cancer.

The burden of proof is on you now.

I asked what the cancer survival rate was, not incidence of cancer. Please learn to read.

Irrelevant.

The body has cancerous cells all the time. Science has shown that food helps the body's natural mechanisms in weeding out cancer. That applies to recovery as well.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?

I have no idea. There was some news several weeks ago regarding medical research from the Lancet which compared the US and European countries' cancer survival rates. The comparatively low rates for some countries was surprising.

Google for news on the report
 

Adn4n

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2004
1,043
0
0
Originally posted by: glenn1
Originally posted by: tfcmasta97
I just saw Sicko and have also been reading some health-care related things lately and am curious.

What % of Americans are actually fully covered in case of medical disasters like cancers and tumors etc. with insurance rates that would remain affordable [Ie: the rates dont jump to $10,000+/month]

I hear so much negatives about it, but I havent seen any actual number on who are/arent covered.

A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

That is so wrong I cannot believe you actually believe this.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

The US has a higher cancer survival rate because of many factors, including earlier diagnosis and treatment.

Life expectancy is not based solely upon medicine. Medicine can't do much if you're decapitated in a car accident.

curious now

What is Japan's cancer survival rate with their universal health care system?

There is absolutely no evidence showing that the extended life span has anything to do with UHC.

There is however mountains of scientific studies showing how things like steamed vegetables and fish work to protect against heart disease and cancer.

The burden of proof is on you now.


Well, the same mountains of scientific evidence pertains to UHC and what you list.
Basically, its a correlation. People who eat steamed veggies, etc get less heart disease and cancer, people with UHC live longer.
Neither is "proof" but both are correlative evidence. And one is as valid as the other.

So this is "correlation"?

Protection Against Heart Disease

In a study in which blood samples were drawn from 20 healthy volunteers both before and after they drank grape juice, researchers found several beneficial effects from their juice consumption.

First, an increase occured in levels of nitric oxide, a compound produced in the body that helps reduce the formation of clots in blood vessels. Second, a decrease occurred in platelet aggregation, or blood clotting, by red blood cells. Lastly, researchers saw an increase in levels of alpha-tocopherol, an antioxidant compound that is a member of the vitamin E family, and this increase was accompanied by a 50% increase in plasma antioxidant activity.

These findings confirmed the benefits found in an earlier study, where researchers found not only an increase in blood antioxidant activity, but also discovered that grape juice protected LDL cholesterol from oxidation, a phenomenon that can turn LDL into an artery-damaging molecule. (Although LDL is often called the "bad" form of cholesterol, it is actually benign and only becomes harmful after it is damaged by free radicals or "oxidized."

Additionally, investigators have found that phenolic compounds in grape skins inhibit protein tyrosine kinases, a group of enzymes that play a key role in cell regulation. Compounds that inhibit these enzymes also suppress the production of a protein that causes blood vessels to constrict, thus reducing the flow of oxygen to the heart. This protein, called endothelin-1, is thought to be a key contributing agent in the development of heart disease.

A study published in the journal Hypertension sheds new insight on the mechanisms of action through which resveratrol inhibits the production of the potent blood vessel constrictor, endothelin-1 (ET-1). Resveratrol appears to work at the genetic level, preventing the strain-induced expression of a gene that directs the production of ET-1. Normally, ET-1 is synthesized by endothelial cells (the cells comprising the lining of blood vessel walls) in response to free radicals formed as a result of strain or stress. Resveratrol prevents the expression of ET-1, at least in part, by significantly lessening free radical formation, thus preventing the production of the agents that, in turn, activate the signaling pathways that control the creation of ET-1.

http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=40

This isn't "correlation" this is hard science.
 

randym431

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2003
1,270
1
0
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

This is the memo they want you to believe. You got the memo I see!

Notice in the last rep debate, when Rudy was trying to make a Hillary-care joke, and no one laughed?

Talk about being out of touch with reality concerning American health care.
Guess Rudy got his memo, and no doubt his check(s).
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Originally posted by: randym431
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

This is the memo they want you to believe. You got the memo I see!

Notice in the last rep debate, when Rudy was trying to make a Hillary-care joke, and no one laughed?

Talk about being out of touch with reality concerning American health care.
Guess Rudy got his memo, and no doubt his check(s).

As much as I loath Giuliani, do you really think Hillary is going to craft anything better?

The problem with healthcare is government regulations, and the healthcare industry influencing policy in favor of their pockets. These same people are throwing money at Hillary for a reason.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: miri
Originally posted by: glenn1
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

Is that why the UK, France, Spain, Canada and just about every other country with socialized medicine in the west have a higher life expectancy then the US?

Life expectancy has nothing to do with quality of health care. The USA suffers from more gun violence, more deaths from car accidents, higher obesity, etc etc. These factors lower the life expectancy in the USA and has nothing to do with the health care system.

If you want to make a closer "apples to apples" comparison, use survivability rates and early detection rates. Statistics that the USA leads in if I'm not mistaken.

Another example of this is how the infant mortality rate is counted in the USA compared to European countries and I believe Canada. The USA counts every infant death in their statistics. Even those infant deaths from premature births. Most European countries do not.

IIRC everything you mentioned has been debunked. This is issue has come up before, and the exact same "reasons" you give have been proven not to apply. For example statistics comparing things like gun deaths are not used in the comparisons. In fact, most of the comparisons go to great length to eliminate exogenous causes from disease and illness causes.
Can you show your resources? Or is this perhaps an example of "truthiness". Meaning it sounds like its true because you expect it to be true, and for no other reason.

Uh, diseases and illness and violence factors are certainly taken into account. That's why African countries rank so low...because they are ravaged by AIDs, starvation, and war. Just go look at the CIA World Factbook.

In any case, the life expectancy for the USA is 78. The life expectancy for the EU is 78.7. A statistically insignificant difference. As I said, you get a far better comparison by using survivability rates, early detection rates, and availability rates. Statistics where the US leads.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: randym431
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

This is the memo they want you to believe. You got the memo I see!

Notice in the last rep debate, when Rudy was trying to make a Hillary-care joke, and no one laughed?

Talk about being out of touch with reality concerning American health care.
Guess Rudy got his memo, and no doubt his check(s).

As much as I loath Giuliani, do you really think Hillary is going to craft anything better?

The problem with healthcare is government regulations, and the healthcare industry influencing policy in favor of their pockets. These same people are throwing money at Hillary for a reason.

Bingo. The vast majority of Americans *do* have health insurance, and don't really care for Uncle Sam to come in and "improve" things for them.

For those advocating "universal healthcare," please don't patronize the rest of us - just call it what it is - you just want someone else to pay for the healthcare you wish to generously deliver to others.
 

Firebot

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2005
1,476
2
0
Originally posted by: glenn1
Originally posted by: Legend
Originally posted by: randym431
A higher percentage than would be taken care of in a socialized medicine country, where it would be covered 100% but the waiting list would be such that treatment wouldn't begin until after you were already dead.

This is the memo they want you to believe. You got the memo I see!

Notice in the last rep debate, when Rudy was trying to make a Hillary-care joke, and no one laughed?

Talk about being out of touch with reality concerning American health care.
Guess Rudy got his memo, and no doubt his check(s).

As much as I loath Giuliani, do you really think Hillary is going to craft anything better?

The problem with healthcare is government regulations, and the healthcare industry influencing policy in favor of their pockets. These same people are throwing money at Hillary for a reason.

Bingo. The vast majority of Americans *do* have health insurance, and don't really care for Uncle Sam to come in and "improve" things for them.

For those advocating "universal healthcare," please don't patronize the rest of us - just call it what it is - you just want someone else to pay for the healthcare you wish to generously deliver to others.


You pay more in taxes for healthcare in the US per capita without getting the benefits of universal healthcare, then Canada pays in taxes per capita while getting universal healthcare. The whole 'paying for others' argument is a crock.

The actual reality is that of those advocating "private healthcare", most have their insurance paid directly by their employer as part of their benefits, and getting it "free".
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Habits have a lot to do with preventative care too. If you don't have feedback on your health from your routine physicals, you won't take actions to adjust your behavior. In countries with universal health care, health care professionals also make efforts to promote better health, and are encouraged to do so. In our system, insurance companies have no incentive for preventative care and health promotion, because they would be investing their money now for benefits to probably be reaped by some other insurance company years later. In single payer system, the entity investing the money in prevention is the same entity that will reap benefits from it, there is positive feedback.
Additionally, if the government is the single payer, it has an incentive to invest money in physical education and health education to promote good health which it currently doesn't.
So the two are interrelated, and that's the reason we spend a lot more to get worse results. It's a broken market system on every level imaginable.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |