Questions about a Media PC

[Teclis2323]

Hey folks,

Well, I put this in General Hardware because I have questions about both the hardware and the software. I'm interested in building a media-center PC, and I'm looking for a little guidance from those of you who know more than I do. I am experienced in building and maintaining computers, but this would be the first media PC I've made. So I have some questions.

Here are the intended uses:
- Watching DVDs, CDs and video files
- Surfing the Internet
- Playing PC games
- Possibly hooking up an XBOX or console
- Possibly hooking up to Cable and using as a TV recorder

So, the first question is: "Is a media PC the same as a normal PC?"

If a Media PC operates the same as a normal PC, then I have some questions about it:

- First of all, which cases do you all recommend? Some cases come with remotes, others don't. Do you all have any favorites? I'm looking for HIGH QUALITY. I was thinking: this case

- What type of processor do you recommend? I have always relied on AMD processors, and would just as soon continue using AMD. Is this recommended?

- Let's talk video card. Should I go for an ATI All-in-Wonder? Should it be AGP? PCI-x? Any ideas about ATI vs. nVidia?

- What about software? Is Windows XP Pro good enough? Should I buy certain software for TV recording, or what?

Thank you all

Jacob

 

[Slugbait]

Originally posted by: Teclis2323
So, the first question is: "Is a media PC the same as a normal PC?"

Yes. It's Windows XP.

- First of all, which cases do you all recommend? Some cases come with remotes, others don't. Do you all have any favorites? I'm looking for HIGH QUALITY. I was thinking: this case

I have a CoolerMaster that's really nice, but it's microATX. However, I don't know if the remotes that come with many cases are MCE-compatible...if not, you need to buy the MCE remote separately.

- What type of processor do you recommend? I have always relied on AMD processors, and would just as soon continue using AMD. Is this recommended?

Doesn't matter. Mine has a Northwood 3.06, it works perfect. Go with what you like.

- Let's talk video card. Should I go for an ATI All-in-Wonder? Should it be AGP? PCI-x? Any ideas about ATI vs. nVidia?

MaxPC had a shoot-out between ATI and nVidia late last year...in all price-points, nVidia clearly beat ATI in MPEG playback. If watching DVDs will be a high-prio function, you may want to consider nVidia. Note: ATI may have better drivers now that improve playback quality...which doesn't matter to me since I swore off ATI back in '97.

- What about software? Is Windows XP Pro good enough? Should I buy certain software for TV recording, or what?

MCE is XP with a fancy shell.

 

[Teclis2323]

Is there any software which I can buy to augment XP Professional to turn it in to MCE, since it's basically the same thing?

Thanks!

 

[Varun]

Hi Jacob,

Yes, a media PC is a regular PC, but with some key differences:
a) It has a tuner card(s) for TV viewing and recording
b) It is generally located next to your TV
c) if (b) is true, you want it quiet

As far as you case, I have a Thermaltake Tenor - see my review here
The Tenor is the same case I believe with a different front on it. The quality is fairly high for a Thermaltake.

As for a processor, I would recommend a low end A64 (3200+ maybe) mostly because they run far cooler than Intel chips, plus have cool'n'quiet to lower their heat output further.

I don't think you should go with an All In Wonder. That really limits you. If you ever want to upgrade the video card, you lose the tuner. I would recommend a 7600GT mostly because they are strong performers that only use about 30-35w at full load. This would be PCI-E of course. Then, purchase a TV tuner card separate, or a couple if you want. The ATI Theater 550 is a great chip, and I have two of them that work wonderfully.

Software - if you are buying XP Pro, don't. Save some money and buy XP Media Center which has full TV recording capabilities (however you have to purchase an MPEG decoder such as the Nvidia PureVideo Decoder) Media Center is really a beautiful app that I really enjoy on my media PC. If you go with XP Home, there are programs such as BeyondTV as well you can purchase.

You could go Linux as well with MythTV, but I've heard that the ATI tuners/video cards have awful Linux driver support.

good luck!

 

[Teclis2323]

Hey Varun,

Thanks for your helpful input. You definitely cleared up some questions for me!

And to everyone, thanks for your continued support!

Edit:

So I'm wondering about what you all would recommend for hard-drive connections: ATA or SATA?

Also, in terms of gaming PCs and HTPCs, do you suggest merging them? or having individual PCs for different applications? (i.e. mediaPC AND a gaming PC)

 

[Slammy1]

There are different schools of thought on HTPCs. I'm not sure if it's usage, experience, hardware, or what that makes some people build certain ways. HTPCs tend to get narrawed in scope. If you process reg tv with it, for example, you don't want to have to deal with some funky driver issues. Me, I've diversified my system; but don't PC game much anymore. EDIT: Still a big PIA to get to know what to set and how for stability.

Check out the HTPC page of AVS.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

They can also help with displays.

 

[Varun]

If you are building new, there is no reason not to go SATA. The smaller cables make a big difference in a cramped HTPC chassis.

Performance is the same, so if you want to use an old drive, that's cool.

Speaking of cool, you really need to think about power output of everything in the case being that they are so cramped. Samsung Spinpoints are cool running drives, however they are limited to 250GB.

WD has a 500GB drive that is the coolest, quietest drive ever reviewed at SPCR. Check it out at SilentPCReview.com

 

[Teclis2323]

Hey guys,

Well to be honest, I'm not sure how much TV we'll be recording; but I suppose putting in a bigger drive is better (and more cost efficient in the long run) if we decide to record TV.

I've begun seriously looking at the Thermaltake Mozart Media Lab Chassis

I'm reading some reviews on it, and it seems to be well received, but I'm looking for personal experiences, especially about the "Multi-Median" software (in place of buying WinXP MCE)

I'm thinking:
Lower end AMD A64 (should I go socket 754 or 939)
High end motherboard (any recommendations?)
SATA hard drives (never used SATA, so I'm nervous!)
1GB RAM
still considering video cards.

I think my girlfriend and I would be springing for a nice television, so I would prolly look for DVI output on the graphics card.

Main intended usages:
DVDs
Music
General web surfing, etc.

 

[Varun]

If you are building a new computer, and you need an OS (ie you are not pirating one) there is really no reason to not buy MCE - it is cheaper than Pro with all of the features (except native domain support), plus it has the MCE app. If you were hoping to use a retail copy that you already own, then I understand you wanting to look around at other applications to do your thing.

I took a look at the link, and yes the Mozart is 100% the same as the Tenor except the front panel.

Definately go S939. If you ever decide that you need more processing power, there is a much higher selection of chips, including all the current dual core ones.

I really like the Asus A8N-SLI Premium board, and mostly because of the Heat Pipe cooling the chipset. They are quiet expensive though and really far more than you likely need.

I would take a good hard look at the ATI motherboards - maybe even start a new post about them in the right forum to get some more opinions. I have heard that they are great performers and run much much cooler than the NF4 boards. Less heat is good in such a tight case.

Don't be concerned about SATA. When it first came out, you often needed special drivers for Windows to recognize the drive, since the SATA controller was external to the chipset. Now, it is even easier than IDE. You just plug it in and it works.

If you are not planning on playing any really graphical games, you could go with a lower end card like this 7300LE. It has DVI, and S-Video for TV out. Plus, it is low power and comes with a passive heat sink for quiet times. If you want to use it for gaming, I still stand by my recommendation of the 7600GT for a good balance between gaming and heat.

I'd also highly recommend a Seasonic PSU, around the 380w version. They have a nice big fan for exhaust.

 

[Teclis2323]

Varun, you're my sugar daddy here - I have been thinking that it might be a good idea for me to play it conservative on the mediaPC and build a gaming PC for my own leisure. I'm looking at the Asus A8N mobos - very impressive, and worth the pricetag, methinks; however, they're all nVidia boards. I have enjoyed the nForce chipset on my recent PCs, so I don't find it to be a problem, but I suppose it WOULD be worth getting the MCE software; however, does that software come with a remote? Or would the Thermaltake remote work with the MCE software? I feel stupid asking, but I honestly don't know, and I'm tired

Thank you (everyone) for continuing to help me

 

[Operandi]

The only thing that technically makes a Media PC different then "normal PC" is the software. There are hardware diffractions that will make a better Media PC however, mainly the form factor (case) and, cooling system (low noise).

For the case I wouldn't recommend anything Thermaltake. This Zalman is nice but pricey, otherwise this SilverStone is a bit more affordable.

For CPU cooling you are probably limited to lower profile coolers, so something like the Zalman CNPS-7xxx or 8000 would be a good choice. For the graphics card I would suggest something that is passive stock. If that?s not an option look into the Zalman VF-700 or 900 as an aftermarket solution.

As far as CPUs are concerned either AMD or Intel will work but AMD defiantly has the performance to watt advantage. Meaning any AMD CPU will be much easier to cool and keep quiet for any given amount of performance. So go AMD and make sure you make use of Cool n' Quiet.

Also make sure whatever motherboard you choose is passively cooled. Active northbrige cooling is annoyingly loud not to mention generally speaking unreliable.

Oh, PSU; Seasonic S12. Very high quality, very efficient, and it?s the quietest actively cooled PSU available.

 

[Teclis2323]

Operandi - thank you, your advice is very appreciated! I am constantly learning more and more about what I should look for in a mediaPC!

 

[Teclis2323]

Okay, so a quick question:

would it be worth taking my current PC:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+
Gigabyte 7N400L motherboard
1.5GB RAM PC2700, i think
nVidia 5900XT AGP graphics
etc...

and just using THAT as a mediaPC? I'm wondering, because It seems to play DVDs pretty fine right now, and I could just put it in a new case w/ remote, install MCE and have a pretty low budget mPC on my hands... What are the drawbacks to this? It makes a bit of noise, unfortunately, but I think with a passive cooled graphics card and perhaps a better HSF, this might be resolved.

thoughts? What passive graphics cards should I look at?

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Teclis2323
Okay, so a quick question:

would it be worth taking my current PC:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+
Gigabyte 7N400L motherboard
1.5GB RAM PC2700, i think
nVidia 5900XT AGP graphics
etc...

and just using THAT as a mediaPC? I'm wondering, because It seems to play DVDs pretty fine right now, and I could just put it in a new case w/ remote, install MCE and have a pretty low budget mPC on my hands... What are the drawbacks to this? It makes a bit of noise, unfortunately, but I think with a passive cooled graphics card and perhaps a better HSF, this might be resolved.

thoughts? What passive graphics cards should I look at?

dvd playback hasn't been a problem since before the 450MHz k6-2 were around so i think your rig should be fine for what you are doing.

you could always try knopp myth, a supposedly easy way to get linux myth going, but i have never tried it....

also you need a tv tuner card

 

[Slammy1]

Actually, 3-GHz is sorta the minimum standard for things like sharpening and conversion. Not that you can't do that with less processor, but there are a number of apps that are core to HTPC that spec a minimum of a 3-GHz system. Processor is actually more important than video card past a certain point (DVI, newer instruction set). A lot of people rip DVDs straight to their HDD for convenience, which mre than PVR is why you see the terabyte storage solutions. Intel does have an advantage over AMD for this sort of functionality. It seems like it's designed for Intel, tweaked for AMD. It's not that AMD won't run the apps, and they do run cooler, but it requires more tweaking to get it to work right.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: Teclis2323
Okay, so a quick question:

would it be worth taking my current PC:
AMD Athlon XP 2800+
Gigabyte 7N400L motherboard
1.5GB RAM PC2700, i think
nVidia 5900XT AGP graphics
etc...

and just using THAT as a mediaPC? I'm wondering, because It seems to play DVDs pretty fine right now, and I could just put it in a new case w/ remote, install MCE and have a pretty low budget mPC on my hands... What are the drawbacks to this? It makes a bit of noise, unfortunately, but I think with a passive cooled graphics card and perhaps a better HSF, this might be resolved.

thoughts? What passive graphics cards should I look at?

GET A NEW PSU!!!!!!!!
I used my old 2500+ M underclocked (to 1333MHz) with Vantec Stealth fan on the heatsink, 2 case fans 7v modded, Arctic Cooling VGA silencer (Radeon 9800), and something still makes quite a lot of noise, which I'm assuming must be the PSU (I'm not sure what else it could be, everything else should be quiet, in theory). So if you want a quiet PC, check how much noise your PSU makes!

I just use mine to play DivX/DVD's, no TV rips/encoding etc and it works without too much hassle. I did the same as you, took my old desktop system and hooked it up to the TV.

 

[Teclis2323]

Hey guys,

Well, my PSU is pretty decent I think (it's one of those modular fancy ones, but I will certainly look). Slammy, when you say 3GHZ, would an Athlon 64 3500+ suffice? It's operating frequency is only 2.2 I believe, but it's "comparable" to a 3.5ghz...?

IF I build a completely new PC, I'm hoping to keep it under 1000, which could be difficult.

 

[Operandi]

Originally posted by: Teclis2323
Hey guys,

Well, my PSU is pretty decent I think (it's one of those modular fancy ones, but I will certainly look). Slammy, when you say 3GHZ, would an Athlon 64 3500+ suffice? It's operating frequency is only 2.2 I believe, but it's "comparable" to a 3.5ghz...?

IF I build a completely new PC, I'm hoping to keep it under 1000, which could be difficult.

You can reuse that older machine depending on what you want the HTPC to do. If all you want is DVD, DiVX and other media playback you might as well use the what you currently have and make the necessary modifications for low noise running. If you plan on capturing live TV and/or time shifting then you would probably want to move to a faster CPU, a 3500+ Athlon 64 should be fine.

 

[Teclis2323]

Hey Operandi,
I was thinking that initially I will probably use it only for DVD, DiVX and other media playback; however, if we get cable service in the future, I could (and would probably) rebuild it with the newer parts.

So I'm wondering about software. Some people say to buy MCE, while others suggest that other software does the trick. Do you (and everyone else!) recommend MCE? Or should I just start off with some alternate software?

So here are some random questions for all of you gurus!

1) Is there an official MCE remote control? Or do I have to buy a special remote control? Should I use a VFD device supplied with a case?
2) What about power on/off? Does MCE allow for simple DVD playback without booting the OS? Is there anything like this out there?
3) In terms of audio output, I have an Audigy (the original one, dudes). What adaptors should I have in order to hook up a surround sound kit?
4) Should I opt for a passive-cooled graphics card? I was thinking the GeForce 6200
5) Which DVD drives do you all recommend? I'm thinking lightscribe, but I want to buy a high quality drive.
6) Any thoughts on the Silverstone Lascala 10 Chassis

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: Teclis2323
Hey Operandi,
I was thinking that initially I will probably use it only for DVD, DiVX and other media playback; however, if we get cable service in the future, I could (and would probably) rebuild it with the newer parts.

So I'm wondering about software. Some people say to buy MCE, while others suggest that other software does the trick. Do you (and everyone else!) recommend MCE? Or should I just start off with some alternate software?

So here are some random questions for all of you gurus!

1) Is there an official MCE remote control? Or do I have to buy a special remote control? Should I use a VFD device supplied with a case?
2) What about power on/off? Does MCE allow for simple DVD playback without booting the OS? Is there anything like this out there?
3) In terms of audio output, I have an Audigy (the original one, dudes). What adaptors should I have in order to hook up a surround sound kit?
4) Should I opt for a passive-cooled graphics card? I was thinking the GeForce 6200
5) Which DVD drives do you all recommend? I'm thinking lightscribe, but I want to buy a high quality drive.
6) Any thoughts on the Silverstone Lascala 10 Chassis

I recommend buying Windows MCE if you are building a new computer and need to purchase Windows anyways. If you want to run your old computer, maybe try some of the other software. On to your questions...

1) Yes there is a Microsoft remote. It comes with the remote and two IR blasters which allow control of cable boxes. It's a typical piece of Microsoft hardware - top quality and very easy to get used to. The backlit buttons are a nice touch. Other remotes work with MCE but none work as well or as easily.

2)I leave my MCE on all the time, but you can put the system in Standby using the remote. If your motherboard supports wake on USB you can wake it using the remote as well. If you have a TV show scheduled for recording MCE will wake the computer and record the show. As far as I know there are no computers that allow playback of DVDs without the OS loaded - and this would be a MB feature not an OS feature.

3)If you have a home theater receiver, you can either go right from the digital input if you have it, or use adapters to convert from the headphone jacks of sound cards to the RCA cables used for receiver inputs.

4)I think that 6200 would be plenty for doing just media playback. Just make sure it has the correct TV outputs that you need (You mentioned DVI for later and I would assume S-Video for now)

5)I have an NEC burner because I have had good luck with them. I can't recommend any others as this is all I have used.

6)That looks like a really nice case. I picked a Thermaltake because it was cheaper, and my case is only "OK." I like the look, but am not a big fan of the airflow. Read some reviews on that one to make sure there are no surprises.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Some great advice in this thread. I have one quick question though which is pretty stupid I guess. What if any reason is there to play DVDs on one of these PCs? I can understand using them for TIVO and DIVX type files, especially if you're ripping your DVDs but why build an expensive machine like this to play DVDs when you can just get a cheapo or upconverting standalone dvd player. Thanks.

 

[Teclis2323]

Hey ChiSoxFan,

Well, I was thinking that not only will I use this PC for DVDs, but also for playing music, watching videos (mpegs) and surfing the web. So I plan to use it not only for DVDs, but also for normal computer stuff.

 

[Slammy1]

Originally posted by: ChiSoxFan
Some great advice in this thread. I have one quick question though which is pretty stupid I guess. What if any reason is there to play DVDs on one of these PCs? I can understand using them for TIVO and DIVX type files, especially if you're ripping your DVDs but why build an expensive machine like this to play DVDs when you can just get a cheapo or upconverting standalone dvd player. Thanks.

ffdshow

EDIT: This is the main reason people build HTPCs in the 1st place. The guide's pretty old, but it has the basic steps are there and all the tweaking is dependent on display, room, and personal taste (actually, you just resize to as high as you can go then sharpen to taste.. but a couple moore tweaks that are less critical/variable). The standard is DScaler5 over what they recommend (Cineplayer iirc), and it's FREE. ZPlayer needs to be registered eventuallly, but it's worth the price. The version of ffdshow is very important, the correct one is dependent on your ability to pass higher instruction sets. AVS forums, which I linked to earlier, can offer a lot as far as how to tweak. Your 3500+ will work fine and, to some extent, noise is a non-issue as any stereo noise will white out most system noise. PSU and case, as mentioned, are still very important but many times quieter solutions mean more heat entrapped in the system.

 

[Teclis2323]

Hey all,

Well, I thought I'd give you guys a day or two of rest (I've been traveling a bit), but I'm back with even MORE questions! You're probably wondering when I'll just leave you be...

So, I'm re-considering about remotes and cases. The more I research these things, the more excited & confused I become. I'm excited because I am finding out the modularity of these great systems. I've decided that I'll probably build a new system using the above advice. I'm looking, of course, at the best remotes to get, and I'm wondering about your advice. I'll be using MCE, so that's the easiest thing. I'm interested in the MCE offiical remote, and I like that it's cheap. I'm wondering; however, about its compatability with existing VFD devices on certain cases. I know that some remotes won't work with certain VFD devices, like the iMon ones. Will an official MCE remote work with most cases, such as the Lascala?

Also, what about the Logitech Harmony remotes. I'm interested in these ones, and I've looked at all of the features, yet I'm still a bit confused. They're meant for general home-theatre products, but what about HTPCs?

Thanks guys!

 

[Varun]

Harmonies are excellent remotes but quite expensive.

The MCE remote will work with any case because it comes with an IR receiver that you put on top of your TV. It's plug and play for MCE 2005 - plug it in and it works 100% the way it should.

If you are going MCE I would really recommened the Microsoft remote. It is a very quality piece of equipment.