Questions about water cooling

[hsfnewbie]

Hi,

I'm currently planning on building a new system that consists of a Abit IP35-Pro and GF 8800GTX video card.

I have been looking into water cooling over those big Scythe heatsink/fan combos.

my questions are:

1) A lot of people recommend going to Petra/DangerDan for introductory set up kits. But most of those are meant for OCing. What if I just want a quiet nonOC set up? Would the simple Swiftech/Zoolance kits be ok for that?

2) Regarding noise level, do you think it'll be a considerable audio difference going from air cooling to water cooling on the CPU, taking into account all the hard drives and GF8800GTX fans?

3) For my purpose, I'd like to just build a simple system where I most likely will not OC all that much. Do you think water cooling is a better solution for me? Or Should i stick to air cooling?

Thanks for the opinions

 

[Gneisenau]

Personally, I tried water cooling and found it to be a pain in the butt. My last rig I went back to air.

Keep in mind the following when you water cool your rig.

1. Keep the resevoir where you can get to it easily, you have to replenish the water from time to time. I did it about once a month. If the resevoir is inside your case, keep the case where you can get to it easily.
2. Unless you water cool everything, you still need fans to blow air around the bridges, and the components around the power regulator. Even if you WC the bridges you still need to move air around the power regulator.
3. Make sure you route your tubing so there is no chance for kinks.
4. Make sure your tubing connections are tight enough that they will not slip off or leak, but not so tight they damage the tubing.
5. Pray it doesn't leak water on your nifty components...ever...

 

[hsfnewbie]

I read that a lot of these kits you probably wont have to refill or add to your reservoir for at least a year.

Also, if you run 120MM fans, I imagine that the noise level wont be all that high.

I also read that if you use distilled water, it won really "damage" your components assuming there is a link since distilled water does not contain any conductive ions in it. But what do I know i'm a newbie

Btw, this is expected to be in a Silverstone TJ09 case.

 

[Raider1284]

that is a really nice case to watercool in hsf, though most I have seen is in a TJ07 case. Heres a worklog for one. http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=150108

If you arent overclocking at all, I would think a simple dual rad would be enough for the cpu and gpu. A complete cpu/gpu kit like this: http://www.petrastechshop.com/pecogpuel.html would probally do a great job.

If you dont mind waiting a bit you could also get the dual rad version of this that is coming out at the end of this month http://www.jab-tech.com/Swifte...oling-Kit-pr-3862.html Supposed to perform really well and is the easiest kit to setup.

 

[hsfnewbie]

I really like those Zoolance internal kits in that they give you a nice looking thing as well as a module to install in your 5.25" to monitor temperatures.

anyhow, I know 2x120 are needed to cool both CPU/VGA. But does it ever get bulky for you when you try to access the port connections on the back? I much prefer 1x120 to cool simply because it wont cover those connector slots.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: hsfnewbie
Hi,

I'm currently planning on building a new system that consists of a Abit IP35-Pro and GF 8800GTX video card.

I have been looking into water cooling over those big Scythe heatsink/fan combos.

my questions are:

1) A lot of people recommend going to Petra/DangerDan for introductory set up kits. But most of those are meant for OCing. What if I just want a quiet nonOC set up? Would the simple Swiftech/Zoolance kits be ok for that?

2) Regarding noise level, do you think it'll be a considerable audio difference going from air cooling to water cooling on the CPU, taking into account all the hard drives and GF8800GTX fans?

3) For my purpose, I'd like to just build a simple system where I most likely will not OC all that much. Do you think water cooling is a better solution for me? Or Should i stick to air cooling?

Thanks for the opinions

WOW.

1. you need to read my sticky linked at the bottom.
2. you need to do a bit of research after reading my sticky, for objective reasons.
3. Watercooling should be something FUN to do. So your heart should be in it because setting it up for the first time can take almost half the day.
4. Stay away from Dangerden. It absolutely sucks hardcore. I would look at a petra elite kit as a starting kit.

Companys to completely avoid in watercooling:
XSPC, Aqua Computers, Koolwaht, Thermalcrap, Zalwish, Silverstone
Incase your not getting my puns: Koolance, Thermaltake, Zalman.

Remember simplicity works better then bling for watercooling. The shorter you can route your tubes, the better. The less blocks you have the better.

My recomendations:
CPU: D-tek Fusion for dualcore, ApogeeGTX Bowed, for quadcore
Radiator: MCR320 <--- if you can fit it. OR MCR220 at the very least.
Pump: Swiftech MCP355 /w Petratop or MCP655
Res: Swiftech Micro res
Tubing: Masterkleer 7/16ID
Clamps: Good old fashion zipties
Barbs: 4x EK G1/4 1/2OD barbs. You'll need 2 for the radiator, and 2 for the reservoir. The plastic stock ones REALLY REALLY SUCK.

Coolant: Distilled H2O at market. Make sure it says distilled. And 1/10 mixture of Pentosion G11 <-- whatever color is your bling.


Thats if you were to piece it out together. If you want to add a GPU and a NB, then a 320 radiator will handle all that. If you want a quadcore + G80, then a 320 is a definite MUST.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: hsfnewbie
Hi,

I'm currently planning on building a new system that consists of a Abit IP35-Pro and GF 8800GTX video card.

I have been looking into water cooling over those big Scythe heatsink/fan combos.

my questions are:

1) A lot of people recommend going to Petra/DangerDan for introductory set up kits. But most of those are meant for OCing. What if I just want a quiet nonOC set up? Would the simple Swiftech/Zoolance kits be ok for that?

2) Regarding noise level, do you think it'll be a considerable audio difference going from air cooling to water cooling on the CPU, taking into account all the hard drives and GF8800GTX fans?

3) For my purpose, I'd like to just build a simple system where I most likely will not OC all that much. Do you think water cooling is a better solution for me? Or Should i stick to air cooling?

Thanks for the opinions

WOW.

1. you need to read my sticky linked at the bottom.
2. you need to do a bit of research after reading my sticky, for objective reasons.
3. Watercooling should be something FUN to do. So your heart should be in it because setting it up for the first time can take almost half the day.
4. Stay away from Dangerden. It absolutely sucks hardcore. I would look at a petra elite kit as a starting kit.

Companys to completely avoid in watercooling:
XSPC, Aqua Computers, Koolwaht, Thermalcrap, Zalwish, Silverstone
Incase your not getting my puns: Koolance, Thermaltake, Zalman.

Remember simplicity works better then bling for watercooling. The shorter you can route your tubes, the better. The less blocks you have the better.

My recomendations:
CPU: D-tek Fusion for dualcore, ApogeeGTX Bowed, for quadcore
Radiator: MCR320 <--- if you can fit it. OR MCR220 at the very least.
Pump: Swiftech MCP355 /w Petratop or MCP655
Res: Swiftech Micro res
Tubing: Masterkleer 7/16ID
Clamps: Good old fashion zipties
Barbs: 4x EK G1/4 1/2OD barbs. You'll need 2 for the radiator, and 2 for the reservoir. The plastic stock ones REALLY REALLY SUCK.

Coolant: Distilled H2O at market. Make sure it says distilled. And 1/10 mixture of Pentosion G11 <-- whatever color is your bling.


Thats if you were to piece it out together. If you want to add a GPU and a NB, then a 320 radiator will handle all that. If you want a quadcore + G80, then a 320 is a definite MUST.

There is some suggestions(jayhal at XS) the Fuzion will perform very well on quad cores as well..arguably up to the GTX...and it costs less

 

[nZone]

If you're goal is for cool and silence. I suggest this http://www.sharkacomputers.com/zarext.html

It's a Zalman Reserator XT. It has only 1 140mm fan. It can cool down cpu, nb/sb, and up to dual 8800 ultra.

 

[imported_rod]

If you're going for silence, the most important thing is to have a big radiator (to maximise the surface area). Of course, you still need the rest of the loop to be decent. An MCR320 (or PA120.3 if money isn't an object), with some 800rpm Scythe S-flex fans should be good. With a decent ambient, at idle you could probably run without fans.

 

[hsfnewbie]

aigomorla ,

thanks for the advice.

i've read your thread and have been doing extensive research at hardOCP/cluboverclockers/<insert forum site>. A lot of people for the most part have been getting water cooling for OCing whereas I kinda want it for just keeping it quiet. I thought it'd be easier just to straight out ask "this is waht i want to do, so what do i need?"

Granted, from talking to another buddy of mine he says air cooling is the better way to go especially if you use big high cfm fans. He was a recent water cooling person but he was using one of those 'crappy' kits you mentioned.

 

[Raider1284]

Originally posted by: nZone
If you're goal is for cool and silence. I suggest this http://www.sharkacomputers.com/zarext.html

It's a Zalman Reserator XT. It has only 1 140mm fan. It can cool down cpu, nb/sb, and up to dual 8800 ultra.

Theres no way a single fan radiator could accomidate all of those components. That's well over 500W+ of heat, a dual 120fan radiator starts getting stressed at 300W of heat. Do you have reviews of this thing? Also at $450 dollars you can build a MUCH better kit on your own.

If you want really quiet hsfnewbie its possible to almost passively cool your computer using watercooling. like what this guy did http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=156775 granted this is extremely expensive way to do it, but is probally insanely quiet.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: nZone
If you're goal is for cool and silence. I suggest this http://www.sharkacomputers.com/zarext.html

It's a Zalman Reserator XT. It has only 1 140mm fan. It can cool down cpu, nb/sb, and up to dual 8800 ultra.

lmao... stupid zalman. They need to drop watercooling entirely.

http://www.shoppts.com/newa.html <--- MUCH BETTER SOLUTION

Next person to recomend zalman better get ready for a debate on WHY. Because Zalman sucks.


Anyhow, since silence is your main objective, then this would work.

Cpu: - D-tek Fusion
GPU: Swiftech MCW60 /w G80 adapter
NB: Swiftech MCW30
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Radiator: Swiftech MCR320
Reservoir: Swiftech MicroRes.
Fans: Yate Loons DSM or DSL





Stay away from ZALMAN. They use ALU, the passive watercooling solution is a joke. If you want a mickey mouse watercooling kit, id rather go with aqua computers. It looks nicer at least.

 

[khanh12]

I would avoid water cooling.

I had water cooling for about 2 years now. Few nights ago, the pump stopped working on my ?file server? computer. I didn?t find out until the morning after. Luckily the computer went into protect mode and the CPU is fine.

There?s no fluid left on my CPU block. All the fluid in the CPU block was pretty much vaporized. The water tubing at the water block interface was completely black (I don?t understand this).

I went back to air last night on that computer and got similar temperature (+2C) using the freezer 7 tower. The newer generation of heat sink/fan is significantly better than what was offered 2 years ago and is pretty close to water cool IMHO.

I don?t think the pump is as reliable as the fan yet. If anything at all went wrong and prevent the fluid from flowing well, you?ll get a fire hazard at hand because there?s not much surface area on the water block to dissipate the heat even at idle. In air cooling situation, the CPU fan can fail and you still get by at idle because of the case general air flow and the massive area you have on the cooling tower.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: khanh12
I would avoid water cooling.

I had water cooling for about 2 years now. Few nights ago, the pump stopped working on my ?file server? computer. I didn?t find out until the morning after. Luckily the computer went into protect mode and the CPU is fine.

There?s no fluid left on my CPU block. All the fluid in the CPU block was pretty much vaporized. The water tubing at the water block interface was completely black (I don?t understand this).

I went back to air last night on that computer and got similar temperature (+2C) using the freezer 7 tower. The newer generation of heat sink/fan is significantly better than what was offered 2 years ago and is pretty close to water cool IMHO.

I don?t think the pump is as reliable as the fan yet. If anything at all went wrong and prevent the fluid from flowing well, you?ll get a fire hazard at hand because there?s not much surface area on the water block to dissipate the heat even at idle. In air cooling situation, the CPU fan can fail and you still get by at idle because of the case general air flow and the massive area you have on the cooling tower.

1. Uhh, your experience with water must of been a cheap kit, or something really old. Because modern custom kits would rape any airsetup. The kit i linked the op too would outperform a Thermalright Ultra120extreme. The TR120EX has been shown and tested to outperform your freezer7.


2. what parts were you using? what was the kit. Technology in h2o cooling has changed so much in 2 years, i doubt you were running on the modern stuff.


3. My quads are currently all on water and they rank amung the top 10 quads on this forum. So, no, air cant get anywhere near my temps.



So please dont compare air with water. Your stepping into different territory. If the op decides to migrate to water, and if he does it correctly, there is no way any air setup could match.

 

[hsfnewbie]

aigomorla/raider,

thanks alot for your info.

I'm reading up on that Swifttech 1x120 simple kit that you have posted. I'm waiting for the 2x120 but I have a related questions.

When I make my loop.. it's going to go from CPU -> VGA right?

1) Isnt the fluid coming out of the CPU going to be pretty hot by the time it goes to the VGA? Will this cool the VGA more than what air would do?

2) Do you think those Swiftech VGA RAMchip coolers are necessary? or can I just stick to the MCW60 only for cooling? I would have no plans to O/C.. but im also looking at the EVGA Ultra Black Pearl edition to make my life easier without having to mount a 3rd party heatsink. I am still deciding and it's coming to whether or not

a) water cooling a VGA from CPU loop will make a difference
b) the noise level will be a significant difference

if both a and b dont matter, then I might be leaning to ONLY watercool the CPU

3) Do you think the noise level on those GF8800GTX cards will be a significant difference


My FUTURE expected setup:

Silverstone TJ-09
EVGA GF8800GTX / Black Pearl? or just regular air cooled 8800GTX 768MB
Abit IP35-Pro
Core 2 E6750

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: hsfnewbie
aigomorla/raider,

thanks alot for your info.

I'm reading up on that Swifttech 1x120 simple kit that you have posted. I'm waiting for the 2x120 but I have a related questions.

When I make my loop.. it's going to go from CPU -> VGA right?

1) Isnt the fluid coming out of the CPU going to be pretty hot by the time it goes to the VGA? Will this cool the VGA more than what air would do?

2) Do you think those Swiftech VGA RAMchip coolers are necessary? or can I just stick to the MCW60 only for cooling? I would have no plans to O/C.. but im also looking at the EVGA Ultra Black Pearl edition to make my life easier without having to mount a 3rd party heatsink. I am still deciding and it's coming to whether or not

a) water cooling a VGA from CPU loop will make a difference
b) the noise level will be a significant difference

if both a and b dont matter, then I might be leaning to ONLY watercool the CPU

3) Do you think the noise level on those GF8800GTX cards will be a significant difference


My FUTURE expected setup:

Silverstone TJ-09
EVGA GF8800GTX / Black Pearl? or just regular air cooled 8800GTX 768MB
Abit IP35-Pro
Core 2 E6750

RAWR dont buy black pearl stuff. Its just a gimic using cheap XSPC blocks. EVGA completely blundered this partnership.

BFG at least got a slightly better company, DangerDen. But those blocks are also absolute crap compared to EK's.

8800GTX pushing 189W TDP, with a Quadcore pushing 200W TDP overclocked.

Your looking at almost 400W of heat. Your going to need a 120x3 radiator or your temps will suffer hardcore.

 

[Oerekum]

Seriously guys, have you not lurked these forums enough in order to mess about with Aigo when it comes to watercooling?

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: hsfnewbie
When I make my loop.. it's going to go from CPU -> VGA right?

My preferred setup..unless you are going to ahve 2 separate loops

1) Isnt the fluid coming out of the CPU going to be pretty hot by the time it goes to the VGA? Will this cool the VGA more than what air would do?

the cpu needs more cooling in general esp for OCing than gpus...most cpu if you keep temps down you will get a greater % oc than if lower the temps on a gpu(gpu just cant over 50% for example)

reality is if you wc a gpu the temps will be significantly better than air no matter whether you are at stock or OCed with water going to the cpu first.....the newer generation run warm as compared to a cpu but stay very cool under water

2) Do you think those Swiftech VGA RAMchip coolers are necessary? or can I just stick to the MCW60 only for cooling? I would have no plans to O/C.. but im also looking at the EVGA Ultra Black Pearl edition to make my life easier without having to mount a 3rd party heatsink. I am still deciding and it's coming to whether or not

a) water cooling a VGA from CPU loop will make a difference
b) the noise level will be a significant difference

if both a and b dont matter, then I might be leaning to ONLY watercool the CPU

gpu ram chips get pretty hot...the ramsinks are worthwhile ...I have a x1900xt cf(single card...I have run without ramsinks eve noced with no issues but I would not recommend this.....use the ramsinks
MCW60 is great block and swiftech has suppsoedly improved the thermal tape on the ramsinks so they stick better


Yes WCing cooling your gpu will improve noise and cooling even when using a single loop with cpu/gpu

3) Do you think the noise level on those GF8800GTX cards will be a significant difference

absolutely....night and day probably

 

[hsfnewbie]

I value aigomorla's opinion and the rest of the watercooler guys' opinion highly. But of course i have to ask newbie questions so i can further understand the sitaution. I went over to Xtremesystems' forums, HardOCP, Cluboverlcokcers, etc, and read a lot the past month. There are a lot of different opinions, but I really appreciate aigomorla's tutorial as it hit the nail on the head regarding setup/installation. The other threads in other forums werent as objective as his.

 

[MarcVenice]

Here's some simple advice, if you are going to use watercooling for quietness, don't skimp. Don't skimp on a good, but most important, QUIET psu. Don't skimp on the case either. And make sure you pick a quiet HD, like the samsung t166 spinpoint 500gb. There might better HD's soon though, seagate 7200.11. And last but not least, don't skimp on the watercooling kit itself. If you do it right, you can really enjoy watercooling. If you don't, you're gonna end up dissapointed. And I would most definately cool both CPU and GPU with water. Part of the no skimping advice ^^

2x120mm sflex or yl fans should be near inaudible, hooked up to software that can regulate the rpm's you might even get passive watercooling when not gaming and the qaud also using eist/intel speedstep.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: hsfnewbie
I value aigomorla's opinion and the rest of the watercooler guys' opinion highly. But of course i have to ask newbie questions so i can further understand the sitaution. I went over to Xtremesystems' forums, HardOCP, Cluboverlcokcers, etc, and read a lot the past month. There are a lot of different opinions, but I really appreciate aigomorla's tutorial as it hit the nail on the head regarding setup/installation. The other threads in other forums werent as objective as his.

thank you for those words. I try to help out people as much as possible to save them from making the same expensive mistakes i have made in the past.

And if anyone needs help, just shoot me a PM. I tend to have at most a 24-48 hour turn around in replys.

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Here's some simple advice, if you are going to use watercooling for quietness, don't skimp. Don't skimp on a good, but most important, QUIET psu. Don't skimp on the case either. And make sure you pick a quiet HD, like the samsung t166 spinpoint 500gb. There might better HD's soon though, seagate 7200.11. And last but not least, don't skimp on the watercooling kit itself. If you do it right, you can really enjoy watercooling. If you don't, you're gonna end up dissapointed. And I would most definately cool both CPU and GPU with water. Part of the no skimping advice ^^

2x120mm sflex or yl fans should be near inaudible, hooked up to software that can regulate the rpm's you might even get passive watercooling when not gaming and the qaud also using eist/intel speedstep.

this statement is so true. Your system is only as quiet as your loudest equiptment.

 

[hsfnewbie]

i am betting my loudest equipment to be the future Raptor drive that i will be running...

but yeah it looks like I am going with the Swiftech 220 for the TJ09. Probably hack the case a little and put it where the 2 120mm fans are.

CPU: D-tek Fusion for dualcore
GPU: Swifttech MCP60 + RAMChips on a 1x GF6800GTX
Radiator: MCR220
Pump: Swiftech MCP355 /w Petratop or MCP655
Res: Swiftech Micro res
Tubing: Masterkleer 7/16ID
Clamps: might use those metal clamps that have screws on them (i forget what it's called) and yeah i know not to tighten them too tight
Barbs: 4x EK G1/4 1/2OD barbs. You'll need 2 for the radiator, and 2 for the reservoir. The plastic stock ones REALLY REALLY SUCK.

 

[WoodButcher]

You really should get a 320 rad for cooling the dual and the 8800. A dual rad system at least, the 220 and a 120 together are what I have in this and my load temps w/ prime are 43c w/ a dual rad, dual pump loop. I have the q6600 w/ the 7950 gpu. As I'm using the SILVERSTONE SST-TJ08-B matx case, I know you have room to do this internally.

Originally posted by: hsfnewbie
i am betting my loudest equipment to be the future Raptor drive that i will be running...

but yeah it looks like I am going with the Swiftech 220 for the TJ09. Probably hack the case a little and put it where the 2 120mm fans are.

CPU: D-tek Fusion for dualcore
GPU: Swifttech MCP60 + RAMChips on a 1x GF6800GTX
Radiator: MCR220
Pump: Swiftech MCP355 /w Petratop or MCP655
Res: Swiftech Micro res
Tubing: Masterkleer 7/16ID
Clamps: might use those metal clamps that have screws on them (i forget what it's called) and yeah i know not to tighten them too tight
Barbs: 4x EK G1/4 1/2OD barbs. You'll need 2 for the radiator, and 2 for the reservoir. The plastic stock ones REALLY REALLY SUCK.

 

[hsfnewbie]

Your 550W PSU is enuogh to power all of that?

I'm starting to think maybe going 2 120s with dual pumps (1 for CPU, 1 for GPU). I do not plan to OC either much which is why I was not really considering 320.

 

[hsfnewbie]

Your 550W PSU is enough to power all of that? i'm thikning of going 2 120s and running dual pump setup (1 for CPU, 1 for GPU). Reason being is I don't plan to OC either much.