Quick HPNA/Ethernet Bridge Question

[gimlids]

I have a Linksys HPNA Router with a couple pc's connected to the phoneline network, and I want to connect a Mac running OS X to the network. Can I put an HPNA ethernet bridge between the mac and the phoneline network? I guess my quesiton is more about the bridge I plan to buy, the Compex reviewed on Anandtech a while back, because their site says it has RJ-11 (HPNA) LAN ports and an RJ-45 (Ethernet) WAN port. The mac would have to be plugged into the "WAN" port, but this port would function like a normal "LAN" port when the Compex is set in bridge mode, right?

 

[rw120555]

First off, check to make sure there isn't a Mac HPNA card that would be cheaper; see

.Is there a way to connect Macintosh's with HPNA?

According to this FAQ, Proxim makes devices that work with Mac's but not, alas, OS 10. But, maybe they'll have it soon, or somebody else has it. The ideal thing would be to buy some $30-$40 USB card with Mac drivers, but I don't know if they exist.

If that won't work, or if the Mac cards are too expensive -- Don't know about the Compex, but my theory has always been that the Netgear PE102 Ethernet to PhoneLine Bridge would do this sort of thing. As I understand it, the bridge basically makes your phone jack the equivalent of an ethernet jack. So, if the MAC would work if it were connected by Ethernet to your network, it would work with the PE102. The cheapest price I've seen on the PE102 is, surprisingly, $100 + shipping direct from Netgear. However, Staples lists the PE102 for a ridiculously high $184, so if you can get them to do their 110% price match you could save a few bucks. Also, with Staples I think you could return it to a store if it didn't work, which would save you some shipping.

I did do a little reading about the Compex -- I believe it is cheaper ($75) and has more features than the PE102 (it can be either a router or a bridge). The main things that make me leery are that (a) I've never heard of the company -- I think it is just now making somewhat of a presence in the US (b) the reviews said something about it running very hot to the touch, so you had to be careful of it.

Anyway, IF the Mac would work connected to an ethernet jack (and I know nothing about networks with mixed PCs and Macs) then I'm guessing either the Netgear or Compex products would work. But, make sure they are easily returnable if they don't.

 

[rw120555]

I wrote homepna.org and asked about Mac OS 10 support, and they responded as follows:

Since the external structure of MacOS changed extensively with OS10, the OS9 drivers do not work. We recommend using a HomePNA to ethernet bridge as you suggest.

So, no cheap Mac-specific stuff yet, but bridges will apparently work (I specifically asked about the Netgear Pe102). One big downside of HPNA is that these bridges are a little expensive, so if you had to do a lot of stuff like this then it may be worthwhile to see if ethernet cabling is possible. (Then again, pricewise the bridges aren't too much worse than wireless gizmos.)

 

[Workin']

I've used Linksys' HPNA-Ethernet bridge many, many times with both PCs and Macs. But it costs about $150.

 

[gimlids]

I'm happy with the Netgear or even with the Compex, as long as they work like I want them too. Basically, their sites describe the bridges as joining HPNA devices to your ethernet network, whereas I am really looking to add ethernet devices to my HPNA network and it worries me ever so slightly that the bridge manufacterers call the single ethernet port an "uplink" or "WAN" port.

btw, I messed around with the DSL stuff last night, and it didn't work in the Phone port as I suspected because that port actually has a microfilter built in, and I didn't get higher speeds when the hpna was completely disabled and disconnected and the modem was directly attached to a computer, as well as directly attached to the wall.

I called Ameritech to see what they could for me, and after exhausting all of his legitimate ideas, he had me change a setting which would have no effect on speed whatsoever, and proceeded to discuss with me, and I quote, "proxy servers, DHCP servers, or even HTML servers" to explain how the setting I just changed would effect my kbps readings. Anyway. May have something to do with line noise or quality, we had an extreme line noise problem (hearing other people's lines) fixed about a year ago. Looking to cancel before the 30 day trial period is over.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[rw120555]

Thanks Workin, that is good to know. I don't want to connect a Mac but I'm tempted to get one of these for another purpose. Again, my theory is that it basically turns your phone jack into an ethernet jack, so anything that would work with an ethernet network should work with a homepna network with a bridge (just slower and less reliably is all ) I've had this temptation to buy a bridge and a switch, hook them up in my basement to machines there, and see if everything will work. Then, I could hook up print servers, WAPs, whatever. But, maybe that is pushing things a bit.

Gimlids, I wouldn't worry too much about the labeling, I suspect it just reflects the fact that the devices you are looking at tend to get used as routers rather than bridges. The ads stress how you can plug your dsl into it, but I think the uses go beyond that.

If it was me, I'd get the Netgear -- you already have a router, the Netgear is now a little cheaper than the Linksys, and the Compex nobody's ever heard of. But make sure you can return whatever you get just in case. I've been looking for a cheap PE102 on Ebay, but people there are crazy, they are paying about as much for used ones as you can now get new.

Sorry your dsl is still slow, but at least the router and HPNA appear to have been vindicated. You might try the tweaks on dslreports just to see if they can help.

 

[rw120555]

Here's an alternative idea that just occurred to me: if you can move either the modem or the computers, let the Mac have the ethernet connection from the router. Then, buy an HPNA card for the PC that doesn't already have one. They're as little as $20-$30 + shipping if you buy direct from Netgear, maybe less if you get a Staples pricematch. That is certainly cheaper than a bridge and maybe more reliable. You might try hooking the Mac up this way before you buy anything, just to make sure it is going to network with a PC ok.

If you someday wind up buying a bunch of other devices, consider buying a switch and physically arranging things so they can use ethernet rather than hpna. That would certainly be cheaper and probably more reliable than using bridges or even hpna cards. I like HPNA, but I also like having 2 pcs and a WAP hooked up via ethernet to my router.

 

[gimlids]

Right now the mac *is* on the network via a switch connected to the router, but the router and switch are in my room; 100 ft cat 5 between our rooms. I am asking this question in the event that I switch to cable since the only cable jack is way at the other end of the house. Now that seems unlikely since I have probably located the problem with DSL.

I may move the equipment to the room with the mac to eliminate the the 100 ft cable between our rooms, but i'd rather connect via real ethernet than via hpna on my comp.

 

[rw120555]

If you do switch to cable you might see if you can't get a jack installed in a nice convenient location. The installation charge might well be less than what you'd pay for a bridge. It sounded before like Cable is what you really wanted anyway rather than dsl, so maybe you should check whether this is feasible and what it would cost if you haven't already.