Quick question for WW2 naval buffs.

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051111/ap_on_re_us/melvin_s_men

Is this the battle where Halsey went off chasing the Jap carriers and left a token force to defend against the Japs? I remember reading something about American destroyers doing a "suicide" run against the Japs. And that the attack was so furious the Japs wrongly concluded they were up against Halseys main force and withdrew?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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It was the Battle of Surigao Strait (part of the Leyte action) where the USS Melvin sunk the Japanese Battleship Fuso with a torpedo hit.


In a seperate engagement (Battle off Samar) the group Taffy 3 (one of three light carrier groups) was suprised by a far superior Japanese force. The US destroyers charged the Japanese group to give the escort carriers under their protection a chance to escape to the other groups.

When the Japanese saw the other ships they mistakenly thought they had stumbled into a far stronger force and retreated.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: K1052
It was the Battle of Surigao Strait (part of the Leyte action) where the USS Melvin sunk the Japanese Battleship Fuso with a torpedo hit.


In a seperate engagement (Battle off Samar) the group Taffy 3 (one of three light carrier groups) was suprised by a far superior Japanese force. The US destroyers charged the Japanese group to give the escort carriers under their protection a chance to escape to the other groups.

When the Japanese saw the other ships they mistakenly thought they had stumbled into a far stronger force and retreated.


OK. Same general battle, separate action but not the exact action I was thinking of.
thanks

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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We are talking history here not reliving it. The racial slur, Japs, can be replaced with Japanese, I think.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are talking history here not reliving it. The racial slur, Japs, can be replaced with Japanese, I think.

I did it cause it was easier than typing the whole thing. Is it deraogatory to call Japanese Japs? I thought it was ok. Like calling Americans Yanks.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
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Oct 9, 1999
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"Where is Task Force 34? The whole world wants to know, where is task force 34?" Adm. Bull Halsey took a lot of flak for taking the Japaneese bait and steaming off in search of bigger foe.

The destroyers of Taffy 3 turned and sailed into the teeth of an incomparably stronger main battle unit of Japaneese battleships and heavy cruisers in order to give the slow and extremely lightly armored jeep carriers they escorted some slim chance of escape. It was stirring to read about that as a young boy in a paperback, The Battle For Leyte Gulf. Their story was of an American Indian commander of one of the tin cans courageously leading his men into the fray. Don't remember his name, and I've haven't ever read mention of him since.

Great drama, great courage, sterling committment to duty. :thumbsup:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are talking history here not reliving it. The racial slur, Japs, can be replaced with Japanese, I think.

I did it cause it was easier than typing the whole thing. Is it deraogatory to call Japanese Japs? I thought it was ok. Like calling Americans Yanks.

I gave what I think is right. I can't say I am right. It sounds derogatory to me because, perhaps, that's how I've heard it used. You can decide for yourself.
 

Perknose

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Oct 9, 1999
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Ok, found it! What a story!!
As enemy ships fled the Battle of Surigao Strait at daybreak of 26
October 144, the powerful Japanese Center Force slipped through San
Bernadino Strait and into Leyte Gulf. It steamed along the coast of
Samar directly for JOHNSTON's little task unit and the American invasion
beachhead at Leyte, hoping to destroy amphibious shipping and American
troops on shore.

One of the pilots flying patrol after dawn alert of 26 October 194
reported the approach of Japanese Center Force. Steaming straight for
"Taffy 3" were 4 battleships, 7 cruisers, and at least 12 destroyers.
JOHNSTON's gunnery officer later reported "We felt like little David
without a slingshot." In less than a minute JOHNSTON was zigzagging
between the six little escort carriers and the Japanese fleet and
putting out a smoke screen over a 2,500-yard front to conceal the
carriers from the enemy gunners: "Even as we began laying smoke, the
Japanese started lobbing shells at us and the JOHNSTON had to zigzag
between the splashes.... We were the first destroyer to make smoke, the
first to start firing, the first to launch a torpedo attack ...."

For the first 20 minutes, JOHNSTON was helpless as the enemy cruisers
and battleships had her in range. But the destroyer's 5-inch guns could
not yet reach them. She charged onward to close the enemy-first a line
of seven destroyers; next, one light and three heavy cruisers, then the
four battleships
. To the east appeared three other cruisers and several
destroyer.

As soon as range closed, JOHNSTON opened her 5-inch battery on the
nearest cruiser, scoring damaging hits. About this time an 8-inch shell
landed right off her bow, its red dye splashing the face of JOHNSTON's
gunnery officer, Lt. Robert C. Hagen. He mopped the dye from his eyes
while remarking: "Looks like somebody's mad at us!" In 5 furious minutes
JOHNSTON pumped 200 rounds at the enemy, then Comdr. Evans ordered,
"Fire torpedoes !" The destroyer got off 10 torpedoes then whipped
around to retire behind a heavy smoke screen. When she came out of the
smoke a minute later, Japanese cruiser KUMANO could be seen burning
furiously from torpedo hits. KUMANO later sank. But JOHNSTON took three
14-inch shell hits from a battleship followed closely by three 6-inch
shells from a light cruiser: "It was like a puppy being smacked by a
truck. The hits resulted in the loss of all power to the steering
engine, all power to the three 5-inch guns in the after part of the
ship, and rendered our gyro compass useless." Through "sheer providence"
a rainstorm came up; and JOHNSTON "ducked into it" for a few minutes of
rapid repairs and salvage work.

At 7:50 a.m., Admiral Sprague ordered destroyers to make a torpedo
attack. But JOHNSTON had already expended torpedoes. With one engine,
she couldn't keep up with the others: "But that wasn't Comdr. Evans' way
of fighting: 'We'll go in with the destroyers and provide fire support,'
he boomed."
JOHNSTON went in, dodging salvos and blasting back. As she
charged out of blinding smoke, pointed straight at the bridge of gallant
HEERMANN (DD-532), "All engines back full!" bellowed Comdr. Evans. That
meant one engine for JOHNSTON who could hardly do more than slow down.
But HEERMANN?s two engines backed her barely out of the collision
course-Johnston missed her by less than 10 feet. Now there was so much
smoke that Evans ordered no firing unless the gunnery officer could see
the ship. "At 8 :20, there suddenly appeared out of the smoke a 30,000-
ton KONGO-class battleship, only 7,000 yards off our port beam. I took
one look at the unmistakable pagoda mast, muttered, 'I sure as hell can
see that!" and opened fire. In 40 seconds we got off 30 rounds, at least
15 of which hit the pagoda superstructure.... The BB belched a few 14-
inchers at us, but, thank God, registered only clean misses."

JOHNSTON soon observed GAMBIER BAY (CVE-73) under fire from a cruiser:
"Comdr. Evans then gave me the most courageous order I've ever heard:
'Commence firing that cruiser, draw her fire on us and away from GAMBIER
BAY'."
JOHNSTON scored four hits in a deliberate slug match with a heavy
cruiser, then broke off the futile battle as the Japanese destroyer
squadron was seen closing rapidly on the American escort carriers.
JOHNSTON outfought the entire Japanese destroyer squadron, concentrating
on the lead ship until the enemy quit cold, then concentrated on the
second destroyer until the remaining enemy units broke off to get out of
effective gun range before launching torpedoes, all of which went wild.

JOHNSTON took a hit which knocked out one forward gun, damaged another,
and her bridge was rendered untenable by fires and explosions resulting
from a hit in her 40-mm ready ammunition locker. Evans shifted his
command to JOHNSTON's fantail, yelling orders through an open hatch to
men turning her rudder by hand.
At one of her batteries a Texan kept
calling "More shells! More shells!? Still the destroyer battled
desperately to keep the Japanese destroyers and cruisers from reaching
the five surviving American carriers: "We were now in a position where
all the gallantry and guts in the world couldn?t save us, but we figured
that help for the carrier must be on the way, and every minute's delay
might count.... By 9:30 we were going dead in the water; even the
Japanese couldn't miss us. They made a sort of running semi-circle
around our ship, shooting at us like a bunch of Indians attacking a
prairie schooner. Our lone engine and fire room was knocked out; we lost
all power, and even the indomitable skipper knew we were finished. At
9:45 he gave the saddest order a captain can give: 'Abandon Ship.' ...

At 10:10 Johnston rolled over and began to sink. A Japanese destroyer
came up to 1,000 yards and pumped a final shot into her to make sure she
went down. A survivor saw the Japanese captain salute her as she went
down. That was the end of JOHNSTON.?

From JOHNSTON's complement of 327, only 141 were saved. Of 186 lost,
about 50 were killed by enemy action, 45 died on rafts from battle
injuries; and 92, including Comdr. Evans, were alive in the water after
JOHNSTON sank, but were never heard from again.

HOEL (DD-533) and SAMUEL B. ROBERTS (DE-113) also sacrificed themselves
to save the escort carriers and to protect the landings at Leyte. Two of
four Japanese heavy cruisers were sunk by combined surface and air
attacks; and Rear Admiral Clifton A. F. Sprague was soon amazed by the
sight of the retirement of Kurita's entire fleet. By this time planes of
"Taffy 2" and Taffy 1" and every available unit of the Fleet were headed
to assisting the fighting "Taffy 3." But JOHNSTON and her little escort
carrier task unit had stopped Admiral Kurita's powerful Center Force in
the Battle off Samar, inflicting a greater loss than they suffered.

JOHNSTON's supreme courage and daring in the Battle off Samar won her
the Presidential Unit Citation as a unit of "Taffy 3" (Task Unit
77.4.3). Comdr. Ernest E. Evans was posthumously awarded the
Congressional Medal Honor: "The skipper was a fighting man from the
soles of his broad feet to the ends of his straight black hair. He was
an Oklahoman and proud of the Indian blood he had in him. We called him-
though not to his face-the Chief. The JOHNSTON was a fighting ship, but
he was the heart and soul of her."


In addition to the Presidential Unit Citation, JOHNSTON received six
battle stars for service in World War II.
 

TRUMPHENT

Golden Member
Jan 20, 2001
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The World Wonders!


Japan frittered away its navy over time hoping to engage the US in one decisive battle. By October 1944, it was too late.

The escort carriers that Johnston, Hoel and S.B. Roberts were protecting were "Liberty Ships". Small freighters that were modified into aircraft carriers. The navy designated them as "CVE's". The crews designated them as Combustible, Vulnerable and Expendable.
 
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