R260/270/280/290/290x Review thread

[stahlhart]

This is thread for discussing new product reviews, not your personal problems with certain members. Stop derailing.
-- stahlhart

 

[krumme]

I for one could actually use some some reference cooling

I have a fractal node 304 and i would prefer a blower solution. And when i game i use my shure srh840 closed headphones, so i dont about noise at load at this level we are talking about. I will take a 290 non x, if it fits in the case. lol.

I have alowed myself 50 hours of gaming time for the next year, and i intend to use it on bf4.

I perfectly acknowledge why everyone with the big desktops wait for non ref. And here is an extra argument for it; when mantle hits december i guess we will see some extra utilization of the card - and ofcource higher perf. That will lead to higher noise than already in eg. bf4 with a 100% profile on the ref cards. Non ref cards would be able to sustain high freq and low noise here far more easy.

 

[krumme]

There is a fundamental lack of understanding of capacitor technology among members of these forums. Read on:

I am very sad to see the conservatism around temperatures for this card. Its the same song as we hear about cpu. The problem with this usual song is, we are hindering new tech to be implemented.

Temperature isnt an issue unless it limits freq or lead to noise. Obviously a card with this kind of gpu crown performance will be noisy under load using a blower cooler. Thats a drawback and it limits oc also.

But the new cards is designed for high temp. 95c is no problem. And in the future we will see even higher temp because it makes the card faster and/or less noisy at fewer cost. Its new tech, its damn important we dont bring out the usual temp demands. Because its nonsense when the hardware is fit for it. If the cards wasnt build for 95c, they would die within a month or two of gaming. Thats the nature of the capacitors. They age extremely fast if you exceed their temp rating. Fact.

This is not about going to 95c with the usual technology. New materials and technology have to be used for 95c to be acceptable.

This is a quote from one of my prior post:
"In the last decade capacitor technology have improved gradually so you get good capacitor performance and durability even at high temperatures and get those capacitors cheaply. The capacitors is the weak part for temperature, so this technology improvement matters.

That means for gfx its cheap to use capacitors that is rated for 105degrees or higher instead of 80degrees. (Typical standard values).

Unlike the nv480 card that used the extremely expensive tantalum capacitors the 290 serious can do without and still be specced to the high temperatures.

When amd says the cards are specced to 90degrees be sure they are. We will get similar cards from nv in the comming year because it lowers cost at cooling or get better acoustics.

Get used to it. Its here to stay for all brands because the new technology enables it.

When the non reference non blower cards arive they will have more cooling power. But that power is best used to lower the acoustics than to lower the temp.

Because it simply doesnt matter those cards run at 95degrees. Its normal operating temperature for them."

(edit: i will guess that the capacitors of this card is rated for 125c as opposed to the usual 105c - that gives 20c extra headroom compared to earlier generation)

 

[Keysplayr]

Most impressive from AMD. Excellent performance and a pull the rug out from under pricing scheme. Anxious to see what the 290 could do and for how much.
Kudos AMD!! Well done!

 

[Kallogan]

I was expecting a lower power consumption especially after HD 7790 surprising efficiency. +50W than the Titan in Uber mode is a little disappointing. But hell, it remains acceptable. I'm puzzled about overclocking though, it seems like the power consumption goes fast out of control, so it may not be good for that purpose at all. That said, this gpu is already powerfull enough out of the box and overclocking memory should not impact power consumption that much. For core, it's another story.

 

[3DVagabond]

I was expecting a lower power consumption especially after HD 7790 surprising efficiency. +50W than the Titan in Uber mode is a little disappointing. But hell, it remains acceptable. I'm puzzled about overclocking though, it seems like the power consumption goes fast out of control, so it may not be good for that purpose at all. That said, this gpu is already powerfull enough out of the box and overclocking memory should not impact power consumption that much. For core, it's another story.

We'll have to wait and see until the AIBs get proper cooling on it. It isn't going to O/C (much) with the reference cooler, that's pretty much guaranteed.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I was expecting a lower power consumption especially after HD 7790 surprising efficiency. +50W than the Titan in Uber mode is a little disappointing. But hell, it remains acceptable. I'm puzzled about overclocking though, it seems like the power consumption goes fast out of control, so it may not be good for that purpose at all. That said, this gpu is already powerfull enough out of the box and overclocking memory should not impact power consumption that much. For core, it's another story.

I guess the high xtor density is increasing the power consumption.

Although I doubt the reference card can OC much due to the crappy cooler, it also seems pretty low clocked for the performance, so with better cooling 1100-1150 might be reasonable.

 

[Kallogan]

If i had to buy one, i'd probably OC the memory and undervolt core to get the most out of it with good consumption and noise.

 

[HurleyBird]

I guess the high xtor density is increasing the power consumption.

That's a big one. There's no such thing as a free lunch after all.

The poor cooling isn't helping either. At such high temps the transistors are going to be significantly more leaky.

 

[krumme]

Why do NV and AMD make blower types as reference cards?

- i mean they dont sell much if any of importance.

And with that in mind i dont understand why AMD didnt use an expensive cooler like NV, as these blower cards looks to be more show off than selling??

 

[Gideon]

That's a big one. There's no such thing as a free lunch after all.

The poor cooling isn't helping either. At such high temps the transistors are going to be significantly more leaky.

Seconded. And high leakage also generates unnessesary power consumption.

 

[HurleyBird]

Seconded. And high leakage also generates unnessesary power consumption.

IDC made an excellent thread on this phenomenon:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2200205

Now, it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison because the process tech is different, but considering that the 290X is consuming several times the power of IDC's 2600k it's not hard to imagine a properly cooled 290X shaving 20-50 watts.

That said, a properly cooled 290X is going to run at a higher frequency and will likely have a factory overclock which will eat into any power savings, but perf/watt should improve quite a bit.

 

[Meghan54]

Why do NV and AMD make blower types as reference cards?

- i mean they dont sell much if any of importance.

And with that in mind i dont understand why AMD didnt use an expensive cooler like NV, as these blower cards looks to be more show off than selling??

Why? Cheaper initial cost and probably gives AMD's partners a way to differentiate themselves and upcharge. Otherwise, can't fathom a reason to use the barely adequate coolers myself, either.

 

[blackened23]

If the OP wants, he can add these to the op. No point of them being lost inside pages and pages of posts.

AMD Radeon R9 290X reviews

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/10/23/amd_radeon_r9_290x_video_card_review/16#.UmifAel3tsc

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/the-radeon-r9-290x-review

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/910-1/amd-radeon-r9-290x-test-hawaii-sors-ses-watts.html

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_review_benchmarks,1.html

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2013/amd-radeon-r9-290x-im-test/

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-r9-290x-video-card-review_126806

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290x-hawaii-review,3650.html

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-290X-Hawaii-Review-Taking-TITANs

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...iews/63742-amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-review.html

http://www.techspot.com/review/727-radeon-r9-290x/

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Gefor...-257241/Tests/Radeon-R9-290X-im-Test-1093796/

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5823/amd-radeon-r9-290x-4gb-reference-video-card-review/index.html

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/amd-r9-290x-review-part-1/

http://techreport.com/review/25509/amd-radeon-r9-290x-graphics-card-reviewed

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...9-290x-graphics-card-review-introduction.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X/


crossfire

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...deon-R9-290X-CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing (preview)

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r9_290x_crossfire_vs_sli_review_benchmarks,1.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290X_CrossFire/

Pfft, I never asked for this thread to be a sticky nor did I make it a "review" thread when the 280x was released. Someone else made it that, apparently. By all means take ownership and do it yourself. I'm not messing with that crap.

 

[3DVagabond]

Pfft, I never asked for this thread to be a sticky nor did I make it a "review" thread when the 280x was released. Someone else made it that, apparently. By all means take ownership and do it yourself. I'm not messing with that crap.

Not gonna take one for the team, eh?

 

[Erenhardt]

And with that in mind i dont understand why AMD didnt use an expensive cooler like NV, as these blower cards looks to be more show off than selling??

How many people chosen reference 780 blower design over evga acx cooler? If I remember correctly ACX cooler was praised as flat out better for just $10 more. If so, why bother? AMD don't want to be competition to their board partners, quite the opposite to what nvidia did. They only way to sell their reference design was to lock out custom coolers from titan. I bet board partners didn't like it.
If 780ACX was so much better than good reference cooler, I can't imagine how 290X will perform with windforce x3, msi lighting and such.

Putting this card under water will bump it up to the whole new performance segment.

Those lava jokes before release were not baseless.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Why? Cheaper initial cost and probably gives AMD's partners a way to differentiate themselves and upcharge. Otherwise, can't fathom a reason to use the barely adequate coolers myself, either.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=lhmkj8rh1gob

Newegg is listing this R9 290 and it says it will come with Windforce 3x cooler (and OC memory as well?).
I wonder if the 290 will be released with non-reference cards right off the bat.

 

[battletoad]

I couldn't care less about the noise issues. I have six reference 7950's in my room all mining cryptocurrency all at 100% fan usage. It's as loud as you think. However, when I use two of them for gaming I dial those fans down to 70% while the other four are still at 100% and I can't hear anything when using headphones.

95C is a concern though. That is pushing the limits and would leave me absolutely zero ability to Crossfire in the future.

As it stands, I get roughly the same performance at 1440p from my two 7950's as I would from a single 290X. Since I can't Ebay them for anywhere near enough money for a 290X, and the 290X is a dead-end upgrade-wise because of the temps not allowing future Crossfire, I have no choice but to stand pat until 20nm in 2014

...or cross my fingers that Nvidia slashes prices of the 780 to such an extent that the 780ti is $550. One can dream.

 

[Imouto]

What was that german site doing an average of all reviews for a given card?

 

[beginner99]

Online shop I use now list the BF4 version only for approx. $691. Note: PC stuff is more expensive here always. A R9 280x is available for about $352.

That is a pretty big difference. (I'm on a HD 5850 now... But plan on upgrading display and hence GPU.

 

[MeldarthX]

I couldn't care less about the noise issues. I have six reference 7950's in my room all mining cryptocurrency all at 100% fan usage. It's as loud as you think. However, when I use two of them for gaming I dial those fans down to 70% while the other four are still at 100% and I can't hear anything when using headphones.

95C is a concern though. That is pushing the limits and would leave me absolutely zero ability to Crossfire in the future.

As it stands, I get roughly the same performance at 1440p from my two 7950's as I would from a single 290X. Since I can't Ebay them for anywhere near enough money for a 290X, and the 290X is a dead-end upgrade-wise because of the temps not allowing future Crossfire, I have no choice but to stand pat until 20nm in 2014

...or cross my fingers that Nvidia slashes prices of the 780 to such an extent that the 780ti is $550. One can dream.

wait why are you saying its a dead end with temps for crossfire? These cards are made to run at that temp; or you just not wanting those temps dumped into your room?

I do want to see with non-ref coolers; and see the 290 that's most likely the card I'll be able to afford

 

[Abwx]

This is a quote from one of my prior post:
"In the last decade capacitor technology have improved gradually so you get good capacitor performance and durability even at high temperatures and get those capacitors cheaply. The capacitors is the weak part for temperature, so this technology improvement matters.

That means for gfx its cheap to use capacitors that is rated for 105degrees or higher instead of 80degrees. (Typical standard values).

Unlike the nv480 card that used the extremely expensive tantalum capacitors the 290 serious can do without and still be specced to the high temperatures.

(edit: i will guess that the capacitors of this card is rated for 125c as opposed to the usual 105c - that gives 20c extra headroom compared to earlier generation)

105°C electrolytic capacitors are currently as cheap to produce than
their 85°C siblings.

Also they ll never hit high temperature on the GFX card PCB
given the places at wich they are located.

The most sensitive , the ones filtering the chip SMPS ,
are placed right under the fan and as such they ll be
at about the same temp as the case so the argument
of capacitors temperature is as of bad faith as possible
and no more than an irrelevant argument caught on the fly
by people who are not favourable to this product.

 

[tviceman]

$550 is absolutely awesome, but just as people said about the 680, looks like AMD pushed Hawaii to it's max to get that performance crown and good press. Thermals, powe draw, and noise is absolutely ridiculous.

Anyways, 10% faster than gtx780. Most of nvidia's products need a huge price cut.

 

[krumme]

105°C electrolytic capacitors are currently as cheap to produce than
their 85°C siblings.

Also they ll never hit high temperature on the GFX card PCB
given the places at wich they are located.

The most sensitive , the ones filtering the chip SMPS ,
are placed right under the fan and as such they ll be
at about the same temp as the case so the argument
of capacitors temperature is as of bad faith as possible
and no more than an irrelevant argument caught on the fly
by people who are not favourable to this product.

You want the ambient temperature to stay at least 10c below the rating of the capacitors as a general rule. If you go higher than that they dont last what you need them to. It all depends of quality ofcource.

But anyway its all irrelevant. This card is build for 95c. Who cares about the temp in your cars engine if it stays within the limits.

The card is obviously the fastest on earth and you get it for nearly half price of titan. I agree all the mourning and goalshifting is boring. Who would have beliewed this kind of performance for the price in advance?

 

[DarkKnightDude]

Crossfire scaling is pretty great.