R290X Crossfire V NVDA's SLI 780s/Titans from [H]

[Teizo]

Reality and benchmarks prove otherwise.

Yeah right. The 290X is a joke of a card. If the card needs Uber Mode and 100% fan speed to beat 780 OC's and Titans...give me 5 fps less on average and my ear drums.

Of course, if you don't mind having a leaf blower in your case...then have at it. AMD releases a card and asks for $550...then puts a Wal-Mart cooler on it.

I'm just going to call it like it is. If AIB's can get the noise under control...then the card will be worth a look. Otherwise, it is a complete joke.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You are right!...The Titan isnt worth mentioning, and hasnt been since the 780 was released.
What I dont understand is your downclocking to keep them cool?....extra memory, please!, every time AMD build a card with extra memory, some smuck comes out with the games gonna require more memory BS.
And while you downclock your XF 290x is uber mode with 55% fan just about keeping them cool, the SLI 780 will be clocked to equal the 290x, while still quiet, oh, and cheaper.

As for smoothness, its great AMD has finally got XF working correctly, and lucky for them their fans are patient and understanding. Im sure once 4k comes into its own, NV will be ready with suitable drivers.

You don't have to downclock them. That was a suggestion if you are the type of person that cares that much about the sound levels of your video card that much. Look at the article, they are running 5760x1200 with AA where possible (thanks for suggesting I'm a 'smuck' because I would dare suggest 4GB is going to be better than 3GB of memory in a 5760x1200 setup ). You don't think an extra 33% memory vs. the 780's will make any difference at these types of resolutions? Think of the games of tomorrow, too. That was just a suggestion to show how the 290X's are versatile, you can run them at a lower performance level to match the 780's performance and quiet them down with less voltage and fan speed.

Two 290X's cost 10% more than two 780's. For that 10% more you get 33% more memory and a GPU that would allow you to run it slower and cooler/quiet at lower performance levels, or you can deal with some fan noise and leave Titan SLI setups in the dust.

It sure did take AMD a long time to get the smoothness thing that was all the rage a few months back figured out. But now it is figured out and it is better than Nvidia's solution, according to this article. Since we don't go in the past to play games, but we play them today... well, you can figure it out I'm sure.

 

[wand3r3r]

Yeah right. The 290X is a joke of a card. If the card needs Uber Mode and 100% fan speed to beat 780 OC's and Titans...give me 5 fps less on average and my ear drums.

Of course, if you don't mind having a leaf blower in your case...then have at it. AMD releases a card and asks for $550...then puts a Wal-Mart cooler on it.

I'm just going to call it like it is. If AIB's can get the noise under control...then the card will be worth a look. Otherwise, it is a complete joke.

If you read the review in the OP, you'll see it is kicking the titan and 780's butts while being smoother. This is in uber mode at 55% fan speed, not the 100% mode you are touting. I don't know how loud that is, nor do I intend to buy reference cards since even the 690 was a touch loud for me.

The thing I find just so ironic is that certain posters were on the slower and smoother bandwagon and now the 290x is faster and smoother so they've changed to the fan noise. :biggrin: I wonder what will happen with aftermarket coolers arrive.

 

[wand3r3r]

Im sure once 4k comes into its own, NV will be ready with suitable drivers.

Hopefully they can fix their driver issues when trying to use 4k, not that nv ever has driver issues..

 

[blackened23]

Yeah right. The 290X is a joke of a card. If the card needs Uber Mode and 100% fan speed to beat 780 OC's and Titans...give me 5 fps less on average and my ear drums.

I both agree and disagree with you on some of your points.

The fan at 55% isn't bad at all - I used 7970s fairly extensively, and while the fan at 55% manual speed was discernible - it wasn't a jet engine as some here make it out to be. Quite the opposite - it is very usable. I really feel like there's a lot of hyperbole floating around about the "uber" mode fan - people are posting youtube videos of 100% fan and yes, it is loud at that speed. But 55%? It's really not bad at all, although it isn't as good as the Titan shroud cooler. I also agree with you that AMD should have not skimped on the reference cooler, it is really unfortunate - they took their golden opportunity to make the 10/10 GPU and dragged it down with that stupid plastic cooler of theirs. Again, unfortunate.

On the other hand, 100% fan definitely is a dust buster. I can't see how anyone would be able to bear that much noise, it would drive me bonkers. I remember the 7970 fan was so ridiculously loud at 100%, I could hear it well into the next room. Crazy loud. 55% isn't bad though. Basically, this all boils down to AMD being stupid for not improving the cooler. I still think the 290X is a great card, and we do have AMD to think for prompting NV price cuts. But, again, they could have made a 10/10 GPU for the 550$ price but dragged it down with that stupid cooler. Ugh. If AMD wanted to go all out against NV, they could have, but didn't - they should have considering the excellence of the Titan shroud cooler.

Some AMD fans would be quick to state that AMD didn't want to overlap with AIB aftermarket shrouds. I call BS on this one. There is no blower cooler that will ever be as good as aftermarket for overclocking, thermals, and noise - even though the Titan shroud is outstanding, it isn't as good as aftermarket. But if you NEED a blower, NV gives you a good option for one. AMD doesn't. Unfortunate, unfortunate, unfortunate. I'm kinda torn on the 290X, I love the performance but can't believe AMD didn't go ALL OUT to make it a kick-butt product by every metric including thermals. And now with the 780OC price cuts some will definitely opt for the 780OC precisely because of AMD not going all-out with their product.

 

[ams23]

[quote="ClockHound]Adding up two 12dB noise sources will get you, o average, 15dB (which will not sound twice as loud[/quote]

Sound pressure level is all about moving air. Placing two cards close to each other would mean that the two cards would move up to 2x more air than a single card, which would translate to up to 6dB higher sound pressure level. Since R9 290X is already very loud in "uber" mode, it will naturally be even louder in Crossfire (note that it is 12dB (!) louder than Titan in that mode, which is >2x the perceived loudness). And due to the incredibly high amount of heat generated by R9 290X, Crossfire will normally need space in between the GPU's, and three or four of these GPU's is almost not an option except for those with special custom builds. The main reason that [H] recommended 100% fan was because the huge amount of heat generated in "uber" 55% fan mode.

 

[Face2Face]

Whats the cost of those then?

$70-$75 each. I found one of mine for $60 on sale.

 

[hjalti8]

What every single reviewer fails to do is stating the average core clocks for each run.
Not just for the 290X but for all cards.

Nobody wants to know the meaningless boost clocks.
These guys review GPU's for a living and they don't bother stating the actual core clocks!? That is just beyond stupid :thumbsdown:

 

[Teizo]

The fan at 55% isn't bad at all - I used 7970s fairly extensively, and while the fan at 55% manual speed was discernible - it wasn't a jet engine as some here make it out to be. Quite the opposite - it is very usable. I really feel like there's a lot of hyperbole floating around about the "uber" mode fan - people are posting youtube videos of 100% fan and yes, it is loud at that speed. But 55%? It's really not bad at all, although it isn't as good as the Titan shroud cooler. I also agree with you that AMD should have not skimped on the reference cooler, it is really unfortunate - they took their golden opportunity to make the 10/10 GPU and dragged it down with that stupid plastic cooler of theirs. Again, unfortunate.

I don't know. The vid I posted had all speeds used. For me personally, at 55% the fan makes too much of a mechanical noise and is still way too loud. I just think that if you are going to charge $550 for a graphics card, you can't throw a crap cooler on it and expect to get away with it. I think people should demand better. $550 is less than the original price of the 780 which is a good value, but $550 still is not cheap.

Now, that doesn't mean Nvidia is incapable of producing reference based crap. I returned an EVGA 660Ti reference because for me it was too loud. But, at least on the 780 and the Titan they took noise and heat into consideration and gave people a polished product to which they should be applauded.

I have nothing against AMD...but I am going to call a dud a dud. If non-reference cards churn out great products like they did with the 280X (Asus DirectCu and MSI Gaming for example)...then I will gladly give credit where credit is due. I guess I'm just a very discerning buyer and have high demands. But, I think when spending the amount of money that we do on these parts...having to put up with companies cheaping out so you have to go out and buy more premium aftermarket parts is a bit of a sham.

Here is the vid again for reference. 55% Uber Mode is very loud. 100% is absurd. 40% normal mode is still loud, but it is somewhat tolerable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhqOKKAq7o

 

[blackened23]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I definitely agree that AMD made a mistake by not investing more time/money into the cooler. I don't think it's as bad as some have stated, though. I could be wrong - that video, I dunno. It's an open air test bench and it's nothing like what the real sound from the 7970s I had ages ago - I guess in a sealed enclosure it's different. I mean, you can take a youtube video from 6 inches away from any cooler and you'll hear the noise for sure, even if in real world use you won't hear it over case fans. I'm of course assuming that the 290X cooler is the same as the 7970 one (under the hood, I mean). But it's open to interpretation I guess - I think the 290X is still great from a performance perspective, but you're definitely correct that AMD screwed up with the cooler. Very unfortunate to drag a high performing product down with that after NV raised the bar with the Titan shroud.

Heck, despite my belief that the 55% setting isn't as bad as some state - even if the 290X cost 20$ more for a higher quality shroud I think people would gladly go along with it, you know? Not sure what they were thinking. I definitely agree with you that the cooler drags the entire product down. Which is a freaking' shame when you see all of these excellent 4k and surround benchmarks, and knowing that you'll have to put up with that much more noise than you would with 780s. I think it's safe to state that a lot of people will just get 780OC precisely because of this, that and the recent price cuts of course.

If I were on the market for a new GPU right now I know I would more or less prefer the 780OC over the 290X with that being one reason. Custom PCBs being another. And NV's software. Etc. It's a lot harder to ignore the cooler issue when the 780OC is the same or slightly cheaper than the 290X (depending on which model you get..)

 

[krumme]

I think 6db is (very) roughly a doubling, so yeah it's big. Aftermarket coolers will hopefully improve this a bit.

No 10db is perciewed as a doubling.

 

[GaiaHunter]

There seems to be a misconception about the [H] use of uncapped fan.

One isn't setting it at 100% - [H] just allowed (in the single card review) the fan to potentially spin @100% but according to them it never went above 65%.

 

[krumme]

Pretty sure 3db is doubling. These things are stupidly loud in Xfire. Imo you gotta water cool them or you go nvidia. I'm all for more performance but it's no good if you can't provide a cooler that's up to the job. 95 degree temp target, [H] recommend 100% fans on a brand new dust free card in the winter, 65db noise shows the cooler can't hack it.

Psychologically I always try to think a year or two down the line - while it's the fastest thing on the planet you might almost excuse being unable to hear your game, but when it's just another 2 cards you'd think why am I trying to play next to a jet engine?

Wrong.
1db is the smallest you can perciewe at all.
3db is perciewed as a difference (requires twice the energy though)
10db is a doubling

At silent they are perfectly normal like eg. 680. At uber 55% they are loud.

If you want silence go water or wait for aftermarkets cards.

The performane of the cards in cf is stellar. Its a huge change.

 

[rgallant]

What every single reviewer fails to do is stating the average core clocks for each run.
Not just for the 290X but for all cards.

Nobody wants to know the meaningless boost clocks.
These guys review GPU's for a living and they don't bother stating the actual core clocks!? That is just beyond stupid :thumbsdown:

this it's easier to read the boost off the box , than to measure it.

 

[toyota]

Just so people know what [H] is actually recommending, just take a look at this vid...and multiply it by two.

They recommend running the fans @ 100%? Uhmm. Yeah...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhqOKKAq7o

yeah 55% would drive me crazy but 100% is offensively loud. how can someone stand one of those nevermind be so stupid to run 290x crossfire and have to listen that racket?


EDIT: harocp even said Our opinion is that at "Quiet Mode" 40% the fans are quiet, at "Uber Mode" 55% the fans are audible and noticeable, and at 65-70% and higher the fans are very loud and headache inducing.

 

[ICDP]

yeah 55% would drive me crazy but 100% is offensively loud. how can someone stand one of those nevermind be so stupid to run 290x crossfire and have to listen that racket?

EDIT: harocp even said Our opinion is that at "Quiet Mode" 40% the fans are quiet, at "Uber Mode" 55% the fans are audible and noticeable, and at 65-70% and higher the fans are very loud and headache inducing.

They aren't saying run your GPUs at 100% fan speed, they are saying tell the GPUs not to cap the max fan speed they can run at. So they get to 65% with this setting at their highest. If my old reference 7970 was anything to go by anything above 45% is annoying and 65% would be unbearable. To be honest even my reference GTX680 at 65% was unbearable, better than a reference 7970 but still unbearable (at least to me).

Just saw your edit and edited my reply. I agree totally, 65% would be unacceptable. In my experience reference 7970 and GTX 680 coolers were both pretty crap. GTX680 was better, but still crap overall.

 

[toyota]

They aren't saying run your GPUs at 100% fan speed, they are saying tell the GPUs not to cap the max fan speed they can run at. So they get to 65% with this setting at their highest.

Listening to a video of an R9 290X at 100% fan speed and thinking this is what [H] meant is a non-sequitor.

well they recommend leaving it uncapped which means it will go up to 100% but they are just telling you even at 65% its beyond ridiculous with crossfire.

 

[GaiaHunter]

well they recommend leaving it uncapped which means it will go up to 100% but they are just telling you even at 65% its beyond ridiculous with crossfire.

No.

They recommend running it with a fan profile up to 100%.

Silent and uber don't set the fan at 40% and 55%, it allows the fan to go up to 40% and up to 55% to reach the thermal limit.

It will only go up if it needs to keep the card at 95*C.

However, "Quiet Mode" is a completely bottlenecking performance setting if you are running CrossFire. AMD recommends that you run at "Uber Mode" which sets the fan cap to 55%. We definitely agree with this recommendation, and in fact believe it still isn't high enough. We concluded in our launch evaluation that the "Uber Mode" should just go ahead and unlock the full potential of the fan anyway.

One a single-video card, the 55% "Uber Mode" fan speed is audible. You hear it, you realize what you are hearing, but it isn't distracting. This changes when you install two video cars in CrossFire. With two fans running at 55% you cannot avoid the noise. This noise would also probably be amplified if your case was against a wall, where the sound was reflecting off the wall. We did not get headaches from the noise, but you are very aware the video cards are pushing a lot of air out your case. Thankfully there is no "whine" to the fan, or any other annoying attribute. It is simply the sound of rushing air, and it is noticeable in a big way.

What happens if you push the fan beyond 55%? Then it does become very loud. At 65%-70% the two fans combined create a lot of sound in your room. Our opinion is that at "Quiet Mode" 40% the fans are quiet, at "Uber Mode" 55% the fans are audible and noticeable, and at 65-70% and higher the fans are very loud and headache inducing. Keep in mind, this is all on the reference cooler. Hopefully custom video cards will improve upon the sound profile in CrossFire.

 

[toyota]

No.

They recommend running it with a fan profile up to 100%.

Silent and uber don't set the fan at 40% and 55%, it allows the fan to go up to 40% and up to 55% to reach the thermal limit.

NO.

We honestly recommend running nothing less than a max fan cap of 100% fan if running R9 290X CrossFire.

The fan won't always run at 100%, but it will have the potential to if it needs to.


so it will run over 55%. hell that's why they even comment saying at 65-70% that its headache inducing.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Conclusion for the 100th time: Cooler is crap, performance is amazing, get over it

 

[GaiaHunter]

NO.

We honestly recommend running nothing less than a max fan cap of 100% fan if running R9 290X CrossFire.

The fan won't always run at 100%, but it will have the potential to if it needs to.


so it will run over 55%. hell that's why they even comment saying at 65-70% that its headache inducing.

Read the single card review.

100% Fan vs. Uber vs. Quiet
Now we are going to manually enable a maximum fan cap of 100%. Remember, the fan will not run at 100%, all this is doing is "unlocking" the fan to be able to run up to 100% if the controller so chooses to while gaming.

And you saying what I'm saying in this second post.

 

[ICDP]

Read the single card review.

I think the point he is making, is that what's the point of running 65% fan speed when it is going to give you a headache.

 

[Fastx]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1788658

The vrm cooling on them are not up to snuff for the R9 290X though. Hoping AIB's have some better alternatives.

Hey F2F thanks for posting this link looks like your right on days ago (vrm's) in the Arctic Extreme III - 290x thread in this cooler. I just updated the op post in that thread with this H link.

 

[UaVaj]

Yeah right. The 290X is a joke of a card. If the card needs Uber Mode and 100% fan speed to beat 780 OC's and Titans...give me 5 fps less on average and my ear drums.

Of course, if you don't mind having a leaf blower in your case...then have at it. AMD releases a card and asks for $550...then puts a Wal-Mart cooler on it.

I'm just going to call it like it is. If AIB's can get the noise under control...then the card will be worth a look. Otherwise, it is a complete joke.

x2

Here is the vid again for reference. 55% Uber Mode is very loud. 100% is absurd. 40% normal mode is still loud, but it is somewhat tolerable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhqOKKAq7o

thanks for the link.

for a tri x-fire setup. cannot imagine 3 of those flying at 100% fan and still throttling. definitely needs underwater.

 

[toyota]

Read the single card review.

and can you read? I just showed you their comment saying that will go up that loud if it needs to and the POINT is that it does goes past the 55% so STOP saying it doesn't. what part of them complaining about noise at 65-70% can you not understand? jeez