R520 Benchies at HA

[nemesismk2]

I said it on the first page and after looking at that review again the numbers just don't look right to me so I think everyone should just wait for a more reliable review.

 

[KeepItRed]

Their just taunting people. I highly doubt this. If ATI has the cards and didn't release them at all, how do their partners get it and benchmark it? Doesn't work out....

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
True, but the 7800 GTX still MSRP's at 599 as well... Which means that MSRP is an flated number that only Apple can realisticly get.

Short supply means highly inflated prices, this is always the case, it's basic economics man.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Their just taunting people. I highly doubt this. If ATI has the cards and didn't release them at all, how do their partners get it and benchmark it? Doesn't work out....

Because the board partners have to actually build the cards... You think they wait unitl they release the card to ship the chips to the manufacturers? Well maybe, but if that's the case, don't expect to be able to buy one when they are released...

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: Frackal


Actually, and I was about to post this anyway, the 7800GTX is a 500mhz stock part AFAIK. When running 3DMark 05 for instance it shows the core at 500mhz, and with my oc of 477, it shows the core at 515mhz... so it may be that we are looking at a 600mhz/16pp vs. 500/24pp

Do they do this for every game or are they specifically overclocking more for 3DMark05?

I would think that under max load it scales up to 500mhz "7800gtx has many 'clocks'" ... no reason for it to go to 500mhz in 3DMark but not games

I have Monitored the Clock rate in Riva tuner for all games I have Pleyed. My BFG 7800GTX OC will sit a 275Mhz in 2D, wil bump up to about 475 awhile in a game but when actually playing the game my card stays at 501MHz. This is in every game I have tried playing since building this computer.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
True, but the 7800 GTX still MSRP's at 599 as well... Which means that MSRP is an flated number that only Apple can realisticly get.

Short supply means highly inflated prices, this is always the case, it's basic economics man.

I do not remember argueing or stating anything against basic economics... Can you show me where you deduced that? I'd like to know so I can be more carefull... In short, it only works if supply is short for a particular genre or field of interest. The fact that the 7800 GTX is in full force and plenty of supply, means that the overwhelming majority of people would be paying $470 for their card, while a competitor prices themselves out of the market. In fact, that is common economics... And lets not get overly technical by saying that I meant ATI would never sell a card for MSRP. It is basically saying that they will not sell many based in the context of my post. ATI has a choice, they can sell their cards cheaper and stay in the high-end market, or they can price at MSRP and get a few poor souls that will pay it...

Asside from that, I do not think ATI will have a problem getting these in full production. It may take a month or two, but I am sure there will be plenty of them relatively soon.

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: rise4310

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: rise4310

Originally posted by: Rollo
Compare those benchmarks to the 6800GT SLI and 7800GTX SLI I have in my two computers now, the X1800 is p3wned.

yikes.

thats the shocker. if these benches are true, the 6800gt sli is a viable, if not better, option compared to this dog.

Yeah that's a real shocker that a TWO card solution costing $1000+ is beating up on a $599 MSRP (I stress MSRP) single card. That's unbelievable!

How is that shocking when a single GTX is just about equal to 2x6800U's????????????????

Talk about fair weather fans. If you can't find 2 6800GT's for about 600 bucks, you got problems.

Can you find me two 6600GTs a SLI mobo, and the new memory and AMD chip I'll need to upgrade to it for $600? My point is we don't all want or need an SLI rig to play games because we already have perfectly good fast PCs without SLI motherboards. Lets stick to comparing apples to apples. So stop with the MSRP vs. Street price comparisons and the SLI vs single card comparisons.

wow, busy day for you defending ati i was referring to the cards, not your upgrade path but whatever.

so using your apples to apples, single card to single card, based on these benches, why would you get the 1800xt?

Well if you want to compare two cards to one their are more things to consider than just the cost of the cards. That was my point. If you already have a SLI motherboard than I'm sure your decisions will be different, but somewhere along the lines you paid that premium to have that 2nd PCIe slot.

Based on these benchmarks I wouldn't buy anything (yet), I'd keep my X800 XT AIW. I don't believe those benchmarks from 4 games I don't play (anymore) represent enough to make $500+ buying decision. I don't even believe these benchmarks represent the final shipping 1800XT configurations and $599 is certainly not going to be the price I pay. Just irks me to see people already making up their minds and comparing things that don't make sense (MSRP vs street price, and SLI vs. single cards). When Crossfire ships and X1800xt's are on pricewatch things could very well turn out different.

For the record, I've been very happy with my ATI cards (8500 > 9700 > 9800 > X800 XT AIW) in the past and for personal reasons I prefer ATI to nVidia. I'm ATI biased and unlike others in this forum, I'll admit it. If that makes me a fanboy... oh well... I guess I'm also a Toyota 4Runner fanBoy, a tall blondes fanboy, a HDTivo fanboy... because I like those things too.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jasonja
Just irks me to see people already making up their minds and comparing things that don't make sense (MSRP vs street price, and SLI vs. single cards).

Why? The street price almost always ends up higher than the MSRP as we have seen with recent video card releases (except the 7800GTX). Even if it was $100 cheaper, the 7800GTX would still be a cheaper buy than the X1800 XT. That's pathetic.

I admit I'm NVIDIA biased too, but that's usually the trend with whatever you just purchased recently and whether you like it or not.

Edit: cheaper than XT not PRO.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The Radeon X1800 Pro is slightly slower than the GeForce 7800 GT, although not by much.

Hmmm. YES I have a 7800GT ^^. Anyways, I'm honestly disappointed with ATI. I was and probably still am an ATI fanboy, but I guess my disappointment is not so severe this time considering I have a 7800GT. If ATI pulled off a 9700 Pro I would be in tears now. But still, I would like to see ATI hit 24 pipes sometime soon to keep the competition up.

Second of all I don't like those benchies. Remember Anand's 7800GTX review? He benched 1600x1200 and 20:15 whatever..... I think we need to see those benches here. HA isn't great with 1024x768 and 1280x1024 benches. Doesn't give me much confidence. That said, I didn't really like Anand's 7800GT review either. It was hurried and lacked a lot of benches against the 6800GT/U which was definitely the important part.

Please, let's get a DETAILED X1800 Pro bench/review plz. Image quality would be a great review, same with AA performance and AF. What about things like TSAA which 7800GT has?

 

[JBT]

G3D comments about possible fake benchmarks? Not sure if this was posted already in here but its an interesting read.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: Frackal


Actually, and I was about to post this anyway, the 7800GTX is a 500mhz stock part AFAIK. When running 3DMark 05 for instance it shows the core at 500mhz, and with my oc of 477, it shows the core at 515mhz... so it may be that we are looking at a 600mhz/16pp vs. 500/24pp

Do they do this for every game or are they specifically overclocking more for 3DMark05?

I would think that under max load it scales up to 500mhz "7800gtx has many 'clocks'" ... no reason for it to go to 500mhz in 3DMark but not games

I have Monitored the Clock rate in Riva tuner for all games I have Pleyed. My BFG 7800GTX OC will sit a 275Mhz in 2D, wil bump up to about 475 awhile in a game but when actually playing the game my card stays at 501MHz. This is in every game I have tried playing since building this computer.

Yup...thats why IMO the 7800GTX should be considered closer to a 500mhz part than 430...

 

[fliguy84]

Originally posted by: JBT
B3d comments about possible fake benchmarks? Not sure if this was posted already in here but its an interesting read.

wrong link. it goes to guru3d.com

 

[Ackmed]

Sorry, I dont believe that ATi's newest card is just 6 frames fater than its last.

 

[JBT]

Originally posted by: fliguy84

Originally posted by: JBT
G3D comments about possible fake benchmarks? Not sure if this was posted already in here but its an interesting read.

wrong link. it goes to guru3d.com

Nah right link I just meant G3D instead of b3d

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: rise4310

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: rise4310

Originally posted by: Rollo
Compare those benchmarks to the 6800GT SLI and 7800GTX SLI I have in my two computers now, the X1800 is p3wned.

yikes.

thats the shocker. if these benches are true, the 6800gt sli is a viable, if not better, option compared to this dog.

Yeah that's a real shocker that a TWO card solution costing $1000+ is beating up on a $599 MSRP (I stress MSRP) single card. That's unbelievable!

How is that shocking when a single GTX is just about equal to 2x6800U's????????????????

Talk about fair weather fans. If you can't find 2 6800GT's for about 600 bucks, you got problems.

Can you find me two 6600GTs a SLI mobo, and the new memory and AMD chip I'll need to upgrade to it for $600? My point is we don't all want or need an SLI rig to play games because we already have perfectly good fast PCs without SLI motherboards. Lets stick to comparing apples to apples. So stop with the MSRP vs. Street price comparisons and the SLI vs single card comparisons.

wow, busy day for you defending ati i was referring to the cards, not your upgrade path but whatever.

so using your apples to apples, single card to single card, based on these benches, why would you get the 1800xt?

Well if you want to compare two cards to one their are more things to consider than just the cost of the cards. That was my point. If you already have a SLI motherboard than I'm sure your decisions will be different, but somewhere along the lines you paid that premium to have that 2nd PCIe slot.

Based on these benchmarks I wouldn't buy anything (yet), I'd keep my X800 XT AIW. I don't believe those benchmarks from 4 games I don't play (anymore) represent enough to make $500+ buying decision. I don't even believe these benchmarks represent the final shipping 1800XT configurations and $599 is certainly not going to be the price I pay. Just irks me to see people already making up their minds and comparing things that don't make sense (MSRP vs street price, and SLI vs. single cards). When Crossfire ships and X1800xt's are on pricewatch things could very well turn out different.

For the record, I've been very happy with my ATI cards (8500 > 9700 > 9800 > X800 XT AIW) in the past and for personal reasons I prefer ATI to nVidia. I'm ATI biased and unlike others in this forum, I'll admit it. If that makes me a fanboy... oh well... I guess I'm also a Toyota 4Runner fanBoy, a tall blondes fanboy, a HDTivo fanboy... because I like those things too.

LOL you think you needed to admit something like that? hehe. Every post you make is admission enough. Anyway, about the $1000 dollar thingy. Most enthusiast in here have AMD A64 939 rigs, and some of them even have RAM in there systems already (lol couldn't resist), SLI boards can be had for as little as 100 bucks. So, lets say I could by an NF4 SLI board for 115.00. And 2x6800GT PCI-e cards for 265.00 each after rebates or 283 each without.

PNY 6800GT's 295x2 = 590 plus 7.00 shipping and after 2x30.00 rebates = 537.00
GIGABYTE GA-K8N Pro-SLI 115.00 plus 3.50 shipping = 118.50

537.00 + 118.50 = 655.50

A-Open 6800GT's 2x283 = 566 plus 10.00 shipping without any rebates = 576
Albatron K8SLi Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI 109.00 + 5.00 shipping = 114.00

576.00 + 114.00 = 680

This by the way is all from newegg. These parts can almost certainly be found cheaper elsewhere online.

Just look at most of our AT members sigs man. A64 939 up the wazooooo!!!!.

 

[JBT]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Sorry, I dont believe that ATi's newest card is just 6 frames fater than its last.

Agreed. If you take a look at my link some think its just an OCed X850XTPE..

 

[fliguy84]

oh alright, thought you were saying about beyond3d or bjorn3d

 

[Polish3d]

Why wouldn't you if the GTX is only slightly faster?

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: jasonja
Just irks me to see people already making up their minds and comparing things that don't make sense (MSRP vs street price, and SLI vs. single cards).

Why? The street price almost always ends up higher than the MSRP as we have seen with recent video card releases (except the 7800GTX). Even if it was $100 cheaper, the 7800GTX would still be a cheaper buy than the X1800 XT. That's pathetic.

I admit I'm NVIDIA biased too, but that's usually the trend with whatever you just purchased recently and whether you like it or not.

Edit: cheaper than XT not PRO.

I've never paid MSRP for a video card (or anything else for that matter), let alone more than MSRP. Car salesman must love you

again, Why can the 7800GTX be the exception to these so called rules, but thse things can't happen for 1800XT?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Sorry, I dont believe that ATi's newest card is just 6 frames fater than its last.

You don't believe anything you read on the internet anyway. So what's new?

 

[hans030390]

Overall, with the X1800xt beating the 7800gtx in SOME cases, it seems ATI did a good job with only 16 pipes...but then when you get into shader heavy games (like...next gen) it seems the 24 pipes of the 7800gtx really bring it ahead...which will be a disappointment if that really does happen.

So, nvidia is winning SO FAR, but we have yet to see other reviews, and then when mid-range cards are released...then we'll see who wins.

I mean, they both have SM3, what do i care?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
True, but the 7800 GTX still MSRP's at 599 as well... Which means that MSRP is an flated number that only Apple can realisticly get.

Short supply means highly inflated prices, this is always the case, it's basic economics man.

I do not remember argueing or stating anything against basic economics... Can you show me where you deduced that? I'd like to know so I can be more carefull... In short, it only works if supply is short for a particular genre or field of interest. The fact that the 7800 GTX is in full force and plenty of supply, means that the overwhelming majority of people would be paying $470 for their card, while a competitor prices themselves out of the market. In fact, that is common economics... And lets not get overly technical by saying that I meant ATI would never sell a card for MSRP. It is basically saying that they will not sell many based in the context of my post. ATI has a choice, they can sell their cards cheaper and stay in the high-end market, or they can price at MSRP and get a few poor souls that will pay it...

Asside from that, I do not think ATI will have a problem getting these in full production. It may take a month or two, but I am sure there will be plenty of them relatively soon.

Well your "context" is a bit confusing, sure 7800's are selling at way below $599. ATI will be offering their competition, in limited numbers, for the same price(MSRP). The supply will be low for the first few months, therefore they will be getting way over MSRP from the die-hard ATI fans, how many they sell at that inflated price has nothing to do with anything. They know demand will be high from their hardcore fans.

The blanket statement that tech companies don't get MSRP for their products doesn't hold true, the last round of ATI cards were in short supply for many months, and people were buying them for well over MSRP.

MSRP means squat in real world terms, supply and demand determine the price.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Sorry, I dont believe that ATi's newest card is just 6 frames fater than its last.

You don't believe anything you read on the internet anyway. So what's new?

Dont put words in my mouth, thanks. I never said that.

What I have said several times, is that I dont believe everything on the internet, like a lot of people do. Just because there is a link somehwere saying something, they count is as the Gospel. Do you really think ATi's new card is just 4fps faster in HL2@1600x1200 4x/8x? A few "articles" that I have read from this hardware site are pretty poor, ignorant, and very bias. The simle fact that they even test the highest end cards, and SLI at 1024x768, tells me a lot. Which is why I do not believe these results. Perhaps they are right, and I am wrong. If you want to believe everything you read on the internet, have at it. I however, wont.

Continue with this drivel of trying to troll me, and you wont get another response.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
True, but the 7800 GTX still MSRP's at 599 as well... Which means that MSRP is an flated number that only Apple can realisticly get.

Short supply means highly inflated prices, this is always the case, it's basic economics man.

I do not remember argueing or stating anything against basic economics... Can you show me where you deduced that? I'd like to know so I can be more carefull... In short, it only works if supply is short for a particular genre or field of interest. The fact that the 7800 GTX is in full force and plenty of supply, means that the overwhelming majority of people would be paying $470 for their card, while a competitor prices themselves out of the market. In fact, that is common economics... And lets not get overly technical by saying that I meant ATI would never sell a card for MSRP. It is basically saying that they will not sell many based in the context of my post. ATI has a choice, they can sell their cards cheaper and stay in the high-end market, or they can price at MSRP and get a few poor souls that will pay it...

Asside from that, I do not think ATI will have a problem getting these in full production. It may take a month or two, but I am sure there will be plenty of them relatively soon.

Well your "context" is a bit confusing, sure 7800's are selling at way below $599. ATI will be offering their competition, in limited numbers, for the same price(MSRP). The supply will be low for the first few months, therefore they will be getting way over MSRP from the die-hard ATI fans, how many they sell at that inflated price has nothing to do with anything. They know demand will be high from their hardcore fans.

The blanket statement that tech companies don't get MSRP for their products doesn't hold true, the last round of ATI cards were in short supply for many months, and people were buying them for well over MSRP.

MSRP means squat in real world terms, supply and demand determine the price.

This time around could be considered slightly different though. Last gen, both ATI and NV had highe end 16 pipe cards for sale. Prices aside, If you bought high end from either company, you had a 16 pipe card. (If you think that pipes don't play a psychological role here, you are mistaken. Even when performance is similar, people want pipes. ATI fanatic or not.)
Now to current events. Do you think anyone (besides the ATI ULTRA faithful) will purchase a 16 pipe cranked to the nads card at even the same going street price of a 7800GTX with 24 pipes? Double the memory seems to have no effect or did not help the X1800XT enough if at all. Hell, even a 20 pipe 7800GT looks better with the number "20".

You guys say pipes mean little these days, but I say your wrong. If it meant little, then why did ATi have to crank the ever loving snot out of this X1800XT? They even wanted to go higher!!!! but could not get it stable.

Anyway, enough rant. We will see whats up on Oct 5. If ATI pulls a fast one, good for them. It's just that every move ATi makes lately, Nvidia has a counter smack down move ready to go. X800GT??? 6800XT???

Its really getting funny lately.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: JBT
G3D comments about possible fake benchmarks? Not sure if this was posted already in here but its an interesting read.

interesting theory.

of course, what AiB manufacturer is going to risk their relationship (and probably money damages) with ATi by benching ATi's newest card, before ATi's NDAs are up? i guarantee those AiBs are under NDA.