R520 Benchies at HA

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: jasonja

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: jasonja
Just irks me to see people already making up their minds and comparing things that don't make sense (MSRP vs street price, and SLI vs. single cards).

Why? The street price almost always ends up higher than the MSRP as we have seen with recent video card releases (except the 7800GTX). Even if it was $100 cheaper, the 7800GTX would still be a cheaper buy than the X1800 XT. That's pathetic.

I admit I'm NVIDIA biased too, but that's usually the trend with whatever you just purchased recently and whether you like it or not.

Edit: cheaper than XT not PRO.

I've never paid MSRP for a video card (or anything else for that matter), let alone more than MSRP. Car salesman must love you

again, Why can the 7800GTX be the exception to these so called rules, but thse things can't happen for 1800XT?

Well good for You I am happy that you feel your better then everyone who has ever paid MSRP. The Fact is the 7800GTX is a unique card, Uberhighend card that I have every seen go down in price in its first year let alone first month. If you pay attention to overclock limits and supply it has all the markings of the the Mid Uber high end card (Ie.. 6800GT), its obvious that they forewent the uber high low yield version of this core for one that would let them sell more. Even as "far" back as the x800XTPE or the x850 version of the same, and the 6800u it was almost impossible to get a hold of and the ones available were selling for hundreds of dollars above MSRP. The 9800XT was selling for $499 almost till the day the X800 came out.

Nobody is saying It won't happen with them just say history isn't in either ones favor but at least Nvidia has shown its possible. The fact that its 4-6 months later then planned and has rumors that even for a Uber High end video card it has low yields, makes it more unlikely that ATI can sell this thing at the prices we are seeing the 7800GTX at. I think this is why We didn't see a refresh of the 6800 (which they announced only after its release that they wouldn't be doing so) because they were not going to gain any ground by releasing a Uberhigh end that couldn't beat the 850XT PE. They lose face and and it ends up costing more. Luckily for Nvidia they have had free reign on SLI (and UBER highend users) for the last year.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jasonja
I've never paid MSRP for a video card (or anything else for that matter), let alone more than MSRP. Car salesman must love you

again, Why can the 7800GTX be the exception to these so called rules, but thse things can't happen for 1800XT?

Who said I did? I'd never do that in a million years either.

Why can't they happen for the X1800XT? Well first of all look at all the manufacturing issues they've had compared to NVIDIA. Surely the extra tapeouts required a huge chunk of cash. ATI says 'call our card vendors, they don't have any in house' (referring to benchmarks). So that means if its going to be released within a couple weeks, there isn't going to be many cards and thus I see no way the price is going to be lower than MSRP.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Creig
If these benches hold true, consider the fact that a 16 pipe card from ATI is hanging with not only the 20 pipe 7800GT, but also the 24 pipe 7800GTX. R520 may not be an Nv killer, but think what a 24 or 32 pipe card could do (R580?).

gee.. and what would a 7800 do w/32 pipes @ 600mhz?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Killrose

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Killrose
tsk tsk, H.A. you broke NDA. No more ATi cards for you.

First off what benchmarks are they using? They are calling all thier benchmarks "Custom" which leads me to believe they are in-house made benchmarks which is not good if true. Normally all other sites will use the same built in game benchmark utility.

This is common on this forum. People do not read, but comment first. I am surprised to see that someone with 5,500 posts has not learned that yet.

I did read it. Although HA did'nt have NDA bindings, they knew full well that there is an NDA "Blackout" on the R520 and have done a bad thing screwing themselves forever into the future with ATi.

And besides, we all know that the amount of posts a person has does'nt mean crap, or have'nt you learned that yet?

"blackout"? they made no agreement and are under no obligation to ati to withhold anything.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: rise4310
wow, busy day for you defending ati i was referring to the cards, not your upgrade path but whatever.

so using your apples to apples, single card to single card, based on these benches, why would you get the 1800xt?

to pay more to get something almost as fast, takes up more slots, conceivably runs hotter and is noiser, and if i want to upgrade to a dual gpu solution which is resolution limited, i can?

sarcasm aside, street prices will undoubtedly come down once availability exceeds demand, and it's not a bad card at all.. while it may be second in benchmarks, there are not enuff differences in performance or features where it will be noticeable during gameplay.

if you're a fan of ati, there really is no reason not to get one (unless you really plan to go dual cards as an upgrade path -- sli is a much better solution that x-fire, according to current info avail.).

 

[Pocatello]

Although ATi's products are competive in term of benchmarks, a little slower perhaps. Hopefully the price and availability will be competive too. ATi could lower the MSRP prices on those cards.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
Their just taunting people. I highly doubt this. If ATI has the cards and didn't release them at all, how do their partners get it and benchmark it? Doesn't work out....

board partners have boards long in advance of public availability. how do you expect them to release on launch if they have no hardware until then?

 

[Killrose]

^
:roll: NSS

 

[DRavisher]

I just have to give this one a big, warm LOL: "This is a complete hoax - done with an OC'd X850, we think. Call our partners yourself and ask if they have R520XTs in house. The numbers aren't even close."

Edit: And this from G3D, quoting an ATi rep. You cant get any closer to ATi than that without sleeping with Ruby.

As some have commented already, why the *insert nasty word here* do not ATis partners have any R520XTs yet? Sounds like the X1800XT may be a PE in all but name.

That is all. Just a lol

 

[phantom404]

LOL this reminds me of the AMD/Intel war. AMD with slower clock speeds yet still out performing P4s in most areas just like NVIDA (with slower clock and memory speeds) out performing ATI in most areas.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: Richdog
Complete and utter dissappointment from ATI... what were they thinking...

Nvidia won this round...

"this" ??

The last time ATI won...was...ehrm..like how many years ago ?????

Btw. those benchies have ONE positive side....i look at my "old" X850XT@PE and can think it still does pretty good

I guess i can stop dreaming of a R520 now...well..at least saved me a bunch of money which io dont have anyway cheers

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: JBT
G3D comments about possible fake benchmarks? Not sure if this was posted already in here but its an interesting read.

interesting.

I have to say..something *IS* odd because the R520 barely as fast as a X850XT PE in HL2 -----> just doesn't make sense.

The 1800Pro slower than a X850XT PE....ehrm...ok. I really dont know what to think of this. Weird.

 

[sandorski]

Wait for real reviews. I call Shens on this.

 

[zinkpig]

seems to me that if the new cards didnt perform significatly better than their nvidia counterparts, ATI would ve spent more money on marketing. The must have some kind of cat in the bag.

 

[EightySix Four]

Yeah, BS... They're just T'd off at ATi

 

[nRollo]

ATI could put an end to all the speculation and rumors regarding their products.

I'm guessing the rumors are true, and ATI is using the time to spin.

At this point, who really cares if they paper launch today or sell a few cards in two weeks?

Tough break for the "It's comin', it's gonna be tough!" crowd, looks like they all dropped the proverbial soap in the prison shower.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Rollo
ATI could put an end to all the speculation and rumors regarding their products.

I'm guessing the rumors are true, and ATI is using the time to spin.

At this point, who really cares if they paper launch today or sell a few cards in two weeks?

Tough break for the "It's comin', it's gonna be tough!" crowd, looks like they all dropped the proverbial soap in the prison shower.

They will in a week or two.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: JBT
G3D comments about possible fake benchmarks? Not sure if this was posted already in here but its an interesting read.

interesting.

I have to say..something *IS* odd because the R520 barely as fast as a X850XT PE in HL2 -----> just doesn't make sense.

The 1800Pro slower than a X850XT PE....ehrm...ok. I really dont know what to think of this. Weird.

I can think of one reason:
Maybe it's not 24 bit precision anymore and renders at 32 bit like nV4X and G70 now? It is still just a 16 pipe card with more shaders and a little speed jump, maybe at HL2 it isn't much faster?

 

[emilyek]

The review sites get cards before launch date, don't they?

I was just wondering because if HA's report isnt true, then ATI might do a leak of its own of the real numbers. Since all they've done is poo-poo HA kind of makes me think that they are accurate.

 

[classy]

Disappointing? It was a wash is Half-Life. Doom 3 went to Nvidia, Far Cry to Ati, and Nvidia did get the win in SC. It will come down to price. Plain and simple. But Nvidia doesn't have a commanding lead in performance.

 

[Therk]

I am actually very suprised of how well a 16 piper does against a 24 piper. I would love to see a 24 piper R520 against a GTX

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: classy
Disappointing? It was a wash is Half-Life. Doom 3 went to Nvidia, Far Cry to Ati, and Nvidia did get the win in SC. It will come down to price. Plain and simple. But Nvidia doesn't have a commanding lead in performance.

When you consider the 7800GTX wins more benches than it loses, and the ones it loses are very close, I don't think ATI has a chance even if this card did launch a $125 below MSRP so it could compete on price.

The 7800GTX wins are more substantial, it's losses are much smaller percentage-wise.

If those benches are representative of R520 performance, you'd have to be on crack to buy one at the same price as a 7800GTX. Those benches merit a 10-15% price discount to justify purchase of this card.

 

[Ackmed]

Again, you are assuming these performance numbers are accurate. There is zero way to verify this, at this time.

Making assumptions that there is nothing to "justify" the purchase of this card.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Again, you are assuming these performance numbers are accurate. There is zero way to verify this, at this time.

Making assumptions that there is nothing to "justify" the purchase of this card.

Of course this is true. However, if ATI is going to go on record as saying the results are false, why not produce their own benchmarks? Notice that ATI never said their benchmarks were better, just that thet weren't even close. No, I don't beleive that they are worse, I was simply making the point that ATI is spreading FUD, and not backing it up. It's their card, their company, and their choice, but if was ATI and these number were way low, I would put up my own numbers... What would they lose?

I read your post a few pages back about the small increase of 6 FPS over the X850XTPE, and I agree that is kind of surprising. Did you happen so see my post about the 78% increase in Doom3 at 1024x768? Honestly, I doubt that these numbers are from an OC'ed X850XTPE. It would seem to me that ATI would have worked a bit on OpenGL performance this past year, and it looks like it paid off. Their DirectX9 performance was always excellent, and now (if these are legit) they have OpenGL performance to match it.

If these are legit, I honestly don't see where this card is bad. I think the only people truely disappointed with this card are those holding out for a GTX killer, and there simply haven't been many indications that this was going to happen... I also doubt that it will stay at $599 for any amount of time, regardless of availability. The going price for a top end video card right now is about $450-475, period. The market simply won't sustain a $600 card that isn't faster than a GTX.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Again, you are assuming these performance numbers are accurate. There is zero way to verify this, at this time.

Making assumptions that there is nothing to "justify" the purchase of this card.

Of course this is true. However, if ATI is going to go on record as saying the results are false, why not produce their own benchmarks? Notice that ATI never said their benchmarks were better, just that thet weren't even close. No, I don't beleive that they are worse, I was simply making the point that ATI is spreading FUD, and not backing it up. It's their card, their company, and their choice, but if was ATI and these number were way low, I would put up my own numbers... What would they lose?

I read your post a few pages back about the small increase of 6 FPS over the X850XTPE, and I agree that is kind of surprising. Did you happen so see my post about the 78% increase in Doom3 at 1024x768? Honestly, I doubt that these numbers are from an OC'ed X850XTPE. It would seem to me that ATI would have worked a bit on OpenGL performance this past year, and it looks like it paid off. Their DirectX9 performance was always excellent, and now (if these are legit) they have OpenGL performance to match it.

If these are legit, I honestly don't see where this card is bad. I think the only people truely disappointed with this card are those holding out for a GTX killer, and there simply haven't been many indications that this was going to happen... I also doubt that it will stay at $599 for any amount of time, regardless of availability. The going price for a top end video card right now is about $450-475, period. The market simply won't sustain a $600 card that isn't faster than a GTX.

Wait.