R520 Definitely 16 Pipes, Confirmed at AnandTech

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Doesn't the R520 in fact have a 512bit ring memory controller running at 256Bits Isn't that a fact . You said it was 256bit when it is infact 512bit running at 256 bits' I would think ati did this for future proofing this architecture. Also hasn't ATI gone further than shader 3 on this gpu its just not active. Also you don't mention the fact that R520's are infact 32 pipe cards with 16 either not working or there disable as ATI feels there is no need for them to compete with the G70's . I think we should all just sit back and wait 2 weeks . I think there is much to be reviled about this GPU that is going to shock and awl many. Also didn't ATI say that 16 pipes would be the same as 20 pipes on there current GPU'S. I think those who waited for the ATI release are going to be really happy. Those that bought the G70's well what can you say about them .They already have to deal with a really bad IQ.

Ummmm.... No.











To everything.

 

[Turtle 1]

I can't remember their name but a member here at this forum. Got really mad when the ATI cards were tested this spring and ran 10500 in PC mark 05. Their exact words in that post was this sucks now ATI will slow the card down . Guess what? They were right! I am sure someone here will go back and find that post.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2527

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26168

 

[hurubi]

How can these kill 7 series. Hopefully my card will stay at the top for a while.

 

[Turtle 1]

I feel I must be poor. Why do I feel this way? Well I have a 19" LCD and I am stuck with a 1280x1024 res. Since I will never use a CRT again. I just don't understand it . This forum is full of the rich and powerful. To really get an advantage over the X850 XT the G70'S have to run at higher res. than I can currently run. (the games I play the XT850 XT are nick and nick with the G70's). So to have bragging rights I need to buy R520Xt or X1800XT $550 than to get it to be better than my x850XT I need to by a $1400 dollar lcd.
. I got one ? for all you G70 owners whats it like being rich.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Doesn't the R520 in fact have a 512bit ring memory controller running at 256Bits Isn't that a fact . You said it was 256bit when it is infact 512bit running at 256 bits' I would think ati did this for future proofing this architecture. Also hasn't ATI gone further than shader 3 on this gpu its just not active. Also you don't mention the fact that R520's are infact 32 pipe cards with 16 either not working or there disable as ATI feels there is no need for them to compete with the G70's . I think we should all just sit back and wait 2 weeks . I think there is much to be reviled about this GPU that is going to shock and awl many. Also didn't ATI say that 16 pipes would be the same as 20 pipes on there current GPU'S. I think those who waited for the ATI release are going to be really happy. Those that bought the G70's well what can you say about them .They already have to deal with a really bad IQ.

Ummmm.... No.











To everything.

ALSO Lol same thing i was ALSO thinking Creig ALSO :roll:

-Kevin

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: Sithtiger

Originally posted by: Rollo
The whole "R580 is taped out" thing is pretty strange.

On one hand the R520 isn't even out the door and you're telling people you may de-value it by releasing another core on it's heels?

On the other, they said the the R520 was "taped out" last November, and it looks like it's not going to really be for sale till a year later. So, what the R580 is or isn't may well be a moot point.

ATi had a separate team work on the R580 and while the same thing could happen, I don't believe it won't since I think they learned from the mistakes of the R520. I'm not exactly sure when the R580 will be release but it will be at the first quarter of 2006 according to ATi. So yeah the R520 is being devalued by the R580, then again that's the way it always is....just not so dramatic. The thing to do would be to sell your R520 and then buy the R580 when it's released or if you've got enough money just pick one up. If I could wait, or I knew I could sell my R520 (assuming that I get one) I'd definitely buy the R580.

So you have held off on a new video card from the Geforce7 lineup.. and then you are going to wait longer, run out and buy an (apparantly) inferior R520... for some reason... fanboyism is the only reason..
then sell it, hoping it holds its value as ATI does their usual price slashing galore to remain competitive..

even if the R580 is also slaughtered by Nvidia, you will still probably buy it as well. Even in the face of Nvidia having the superior product the whole time.

Fanboyism at its best. I'd go as far as to say lack of brainpower. I've never seen as many brand loyal kiddies in any market than this one. Its really time to get over the R300.. I guess that bought a lot of dedication. Either that or you must be canadian or something.

 

[Gamingphreek]

One thing i just thought of that people are forgetting about this delay:

ATI has to come up with some compelling reason (Performance, Feature etc) that makes there card a viable choice. People are not going to simply ditch all their shiny new cards just for a new card, it has to offer a tangible difference in someway much farther beyond that. For maybe 6 series and X series users not so much, but for 7 series users, this really needs to happen.

-Kevin

 

[CrystalBay]

One things for sure the benchmark whores will love putting di and ln2 to this thing..

 

[imported_goku]

Kinda interesting, I currently have a 9800pro which was an upgrade from my Radeon VE (7200) and it was a jump from 32MB Vram to 128. I also purchased an AIW 9800PRO as an upgrade for my R128 AIW card which was also 32MB Vram. While upgrading from a 9800PRO to a X800/X850 would have been a significant upgrade, I guess I subconsciously said it wasn't enough.

I knew that I'd wait until a second Gen 512MB card just because but was thinking that this new card was really going to be special with the 24/32 pipes, well it appears that possibly my next upgrade will be the R580, 32 pipes (it better friggen) and it'd be a second gen 512MB card. Interesting how things work out I guess.

 

[Sithtiger]

Originally posted by: southpawuni

Originally posted by: Sithtiger

Originally posted by: Rollo
The whole "R580 is taped out" thing is pretty strange.

On one hand the R520 isn't even out the door and you're telling people you may de-value it by releasing another core on it's heels?

On the other, they said the the R520 was "taped out" last November, and it looks like it's not going to really be for sale till a year later. So, what the R580 is or isn't may well be a moot point.

ATi had a separate team work on the R580 and while the same thing could happen, I don't believe it won't since I think they learned from the mistakes of the R520. I'm not exactly sure when the R580 will be release but it will be at the first quarter of 2006 according to ATi. So yeah the R520 is being devalued by the R580, then again that's the way it always is....just not so dramatic. The thing to do would be to sell your R520 and then buy the R580 when it's released or if you've got enough money just pick one up. If I could wait, or I knew I could sell my R520 (assuming that I get one) I'd definitely buy the R580.

So you have held off on a new video card from the Geforce7 lineup.. and then you are going to wait longer, run out and buy an (apparantly) inferior R520... for some reason... fanboyism is the only reason..
then sell it, hoping it holds its value as ATI does their usual price slashing galore to remain competitive..

even if the R580 is also slaughtered by Nvidia, you will still probably buy it as well. Even in the face of Nvidia having the superior product the whole time.

Fanboyism at its best. I'd go as far as to say lack of brainpower. I've never seen as many brand loyal kiddies in any market than this one. Its really time to get over the R300.. I guess that bought a lot of dedication. Either that or you must be canadian or something.

Uh, no. Like I said before I do prefer ATi over nVidia because of their business ethics and the way they strongarm the reviewers that review their cards. I actually don't know if they still do this but I'm not so affected that I won't use their cards. I just bought into the whole hype into the R520. I honestly don't believe the R520 will be slower or inferior. How can a 512-bit ring bus be inferior to a 256-bit? Also please explain to me how 256MB is better than 512MB of ram?? That said, you could have a 512MB card and a 256MB card could easily be faster. Just look at the X800 XL 512MB card vs the 256MB 6800 Ultra. If the R520 is slower in performance then I'll buy a G70 in a heartbeat. As long as the R520 is at least as fast, I'm fine with that because it has 512MB of RAM. I'm also hoping that the IQ is superior. It may not be I don't know but we'll have to wait and see.

Regarding the lack of brainpower and fanboyism...well that's usually a statement from someone who doesn't like another's opinion but doesn't quite know how they are superior. You have to lower yourself to throwing insults. It seems to me that your the fanboy. I've provided reasons why the R520 could be superior. I don't know that it will be nor does anyone else until the benchmarks are released. Ya know I don't recall belittling you...but hey, whatever dude. I just want the best card. I do prefer ATi, but I've had all nVidia cards since the TnT 2 until the GF 4 Ti4400. The 9800 Pro was a happy mistake since the 5800 was a bust.

If you'd taken the time to read some of my other posts, you'd see that I'm very ticked at ATi for being so late! Again though, if it's worth it I'll buy the R520, if not then I'll buy the G70. I will not wait any longer than October though so if ATi is late again, I'm back to nVidia. I've stated that before as well. I have got to go to sleep, I can barely hold my eyes open! Nitey nite, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite. Later.

 

[CrystalBay]

The memory on this part is a huge and expensive bonus.... 1.26ns =1600 , lots of headway here. Fast memory, Fast 512 ring bus = HDR +4x AA for free....

 

[Novercalis]

r520 TRASITIONAL CARD

r580 MAY top Nvidia 7800 GTX and thier ULTra when its release....

COPY/PASTE:


N MY HONEST OPINION:

ATI HAS TO BE CONFINDENT AND HAVE TO MAKE SURE the R520 Will outperform the 7800 GTX by atleast 15%.
This will put Nvidia in somewhat of a decision factor:

Nvidia can:

WAIT and see if Cosumers are now buying ATI over 7800GTX.
or Release the 7800GTX UL...
But nvidia may Counter Attack ATI with: Reduce Price of the 7800 GTX and force ATI to drop the 520 price tag which will hurt ATI more due to the amount the spent trying to get it right.
Or:
to force ATI once again to release the r580.

it basically comes down to:

r580 vs Ultra 7800 GTX and the first one to release will lose "technically" with price marketting.
Ati has to be confident to the extent that the r580 will shine over the 7800 GTX in dual SLI to make the Ultra look like a joke.
If not, ATI will Fail and lose the round.

As I said:

Nvidia decision on the r520 will hold the key on what to come.
Will they play into ATI hands and release the Ultra Series?
Thereby Ati will reduce price of the r520 by 40-50% and introduce the r580 after Ultra with a price approx $75-100 less to attaract everything away from Nvidia?

This is the game that is being played out.
r520 is a trasitional card.. a PAWN. Will nvidia call its bluff and sit back if the r520 cant outperform thus ATI releases r580 and lose all money on the r520.. On top of, they will have to UP THE PRICE on the r580 to compensate the loss of r520...
which in turns brings the Ultra 7800 Lesser price, which attracts US, the Consumers.


its all about r580 by end of this year.

 

[Sithtiger]

Originally posted by: Novercalis
r520 TRASITIONAL CARD

r580 MAY top Nvidia 7800 GTX and thier ULTra when its release....

COPY/PASTE:


N MY HONEST OPINION:

ATI HAS TO BE CONFINDENT AND HAVE TO MAKE SURE the R520 Will outperform the 7800 GTX by atleast 15%.
This will put Nvidia in somewhat of a decision factor:

Nvidia can:

WAIT and see if Cosumers are now buying ATI over 7800GTX.
or Release the 7800GTX UL...
But nvidia may Counter Attack ATI with: Reduce Price of the 7800 GTX and force ATI to drop the 520 price tag which will hurt ATI more due to the amount the spent trying to get it right.
Or:
to force ATI once again to release the r580.

it basically comes down to:

r580 vs Ultra 7800 GTX and the first one to release will lose "technically" with price marketting.
Ati has to be confident to the extent that the r580 will shine over the 7800 GTX in dual SLI to make the Ultra look like a joke.
If not, ATI will Fail and lose the round.

As I said:

Nvidia decision on the r520 will hold the key on what to come.
Will they play into ATI hands and release the Ultra Series?
Thereby Ati will reduce price of the r520 by 40-50% and introduce the r580 after Ultra with a price approx $75-100 less to attaract everything away from Nvidia?

This is the game that is being played out.
r520 is a trasitional card.. a PAWN. Will nvidia call its bluff and sit back if the r520 cant outperform thus ATI releases r580 and lose all money on the r520.. On top of, they will have to UP THE PRICE on the r580 to compensate the loss of r520...
which in turns brings the Ultra 7800 Lesser price, which attracts US, the Consumers.


its all about r580 by end of this year.

R580 won't show up until next year. ATi have stated this but it makes sense too. If they were to launch the R580 this year, it would basically kill the R520. Who would buy an inferior R520 when you can buy a faster R580? Also how would the pricing work if they were to release the R580. The R580 would have to be insanely high since the R520 XT will be $600!

Despite the fact that it's already been taped out, the R580 won't be out at least until March. That will be their Spring refresh and if it's true nVidia cancelled the Ultra model of the G70, they must have something else planned and it too will likely be released around March.

 

[JBT]

I'm not sure if anyone else has ever noticed this but it doesn't seem like ATI + Nvidia really do price wars. They both send out their cards and and they typically stay at that MSRP for quite sometime in the big box stores.

Sure online the prices jump around but I really don't think the prices are set by ATI or Nvidia to be say $10 cheaper than the others card.

 

[DeeSlanger]

520 is gonna have new features boys , Like Free 4xaa +HDR....YeeeHaaaa

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: Sithtiger


Uh, no. Like I said before I do prefer ATi over nVidia because of their business ethics and the way they strongarm the reviewers that review their cards. I actually don't know if they still do this but I'm not so affected that I won't use their cards. I just bought into the whole hype into the R520. I honestly don't believe the R520 will be slower or inferior. How can a 512-bit ring bus be inferior to a 256-bit? Also please explain to me how 256MB is better than 512MB of ram?? That said, you could have a 512MB card and a 256MB card could easily be faster. Just look at the X800 XL 512MB card vs the 256MB 6800 Ultra. If the R520 is slower in performance then I'll buy a G70 in a heartbeat. As long as the R520 is at least as fast, I'm fine with that because it has 512MB of RAM. I'm also hoping that the IQ is superior. It may not be I don't know but we'll have to wait and see.

Regarding the lack of brainpower and fanboyism...well that's usually a statement from someone who doesn't like another's opinion but doesn't quite know how they are superior. You have to lower yourself to throwing insults. It seems to me that your the fanboy. I've provided reasons why the R520 could be superior. I don't know that it will be nor does anyone else until the benchmarks are released. Ya know I don't recall belittling you...but hey, whatever dude. I just want the best card. I do prefer ATi, but I've had all nVidia cards since the TnT 2 until the GF 4 Ti4400. The 9800 Pro was a happy mistake since the 5800 was a bust.

If you'd taken the time to read some of my other posts, you'd see that I'm very ticked at ATi for being so late! Again though, if it's worth it I'll buy the R520, if not then I'll buy the G70. I will not wait any longer than October though so if ATi is late again, I'm back to nVidia. I've stated that before as well. I have got to go to sleep, I can barely hold my eyes open! Nitey nite, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite. Later.

The ringbus is only 512bit INTERNALLY.
Externally is just a 256bit bus.

Terra...

 

[TerracideDK]

Originally posted by: DeeSlanger
520 is gonna have new features boys , Like Free 4xaa +HDR....YeeeHaaaa

Source?

Terra...

 

[Novercalis]

wish i could find the article in regards to r580... it was referred/linked here in a AT forum/news...

it would only make sense though if r580 was being released by this end of the year for my statment made.

logic to it: beside price war, the price war brrings revenues and since ATI is far behind and loss a nie share of the market to nvidia, they need to regain those ppl.

STEP A: Currently Nvidia 7800 GTX #1 at 500
STEP B: ATI: r520 comes out at 600
if better than 7800 GTX, ppl will switch
STEP C: Nvidia decides to drop price on gtx
STEP D: Ati drops price on r520
STEP E: Nvidia forced release ultra
STEP F: Ati drops r520 by half and releases r580 a bit lower than Ultra pricing.

More ppl will end up going ATI in each scenerio practically speaking in this model type.

however if the r520 was to not gain back the money at step B as follow:

Step C: Nvidia loweres price on GTX by $50 more to ensure all customers switches to Nividia
Step D: Ati is forced to release r580 and at a HIGH HIGH price to compensate loss of r520 in all aspect.
Step E: Nvidia reviews the r580 and decides, is the card better than ULTRA or not:
Step F: depending on answer: relases 7800 UL GTX (ATI price minus 75-100 if better than r580 and GTX goes to $300)
If ULTra fails to surpass r580, Nvidia releases the UL GTX at 450-500 and drops GTX to 300.
That is, assumption of r580 being priced high.
This forces ATI to lower price on thier top end to win ppl over but Nvidia concern is making them not benefit as much money they could have beforehand with thier incentives prices and market the card as: With current technology on video card, there really isnt no need to go overkill when nothing currently can support the ATI r580"...

but this IS ALL ASSUMPTION if the r580 was to be released this yea.r. ehnce I am calling r520 a PAWN, TOOL, marketting ploy.
a "bluff" card to Vidia
overall a Transtional card...

 

[DRavisher]

If you (Novercalis) are correct I believe we have found the reason ATi is loosing money. Developing a card, for then to use it as a pawn? If it is a marketing ploy I think it is a pretty stupid one. Anyone want to bet how much money ATi will have wasted on this marketing ploy of theirs? And if ATi were to release this Uber R580 that everyone is waiting for (who ever heard of a not-new-generation refresh with double the complexity - 16 vs. 32 pipes anyway) then they would be loosing out on a lot of sales from R520. I think it is pretty doubtful that ATi will release the R580 quite so soon.

 

[Novercalis]

DR they have spent to much money already on the r520 to just drop it.
the r580 is already taped out.
they want to make as much money they can from r520 b4 releasing the r580.

however, they also know nvidia is holding back as well since they have NO NEED to release the ULTRA.

the r580 is, with assumption far better than r520 and ati knows it, but they want to make some money compensation back from the r520.
this is a smart business manuever the scenrio i pointed out for ati.

basically force nvidia to throw out thier TOP END CARD ULTRA.
ATI throws out thier TOP END r580.
Reduce the price on thier r520 (assuming it surpasses gtx) to $300.
now they will attract both HARDCORE TOP END user and MID Users since by putting r520 as a MID by than.
allt hose with gtx might jump r580.. all those looking into gtx will go r520.
this is the best scenrio for ati.
they spent all this time on the chip that is a failure to ati... the only usefulness for ati on r520 IS; if my statements were TRUE on the information that the r580 was to be released within 5 months.. IS (sorry no period and horrible grammar) to utlize the card for a marketting tactics versus Nvidia.

Why not since it can benefit them if Nvidia falls for it. if Not.. worst case scenrio, r520 flops on benchies.. nvidia loweres a bit on thier GTX without ever relaising Ultra and force ATI to release r580 first.

Thus, Nvidia releases ULTRA depending on Nvidia doing benchies on r580, will set the price according or market it according to the result of the bencmarks to once again, win the customers.

 

[Novercalis]

as I said, DONT TAKE MY WORDS FACT... it seems apparently I AM WRONG with the r580 information.. i could of sworn I ran into an article stating around Dec/Jan... thus all my statements would make sense.. but if its not... than good luck ATI cause im already buying the GTX anywyas!

 

[Turtle 1]

Lets try to use a little reasoning as to why ATI lost money. They said they wouldn't ship cards til after fiscal 4TH QT. So in the QT that they have lost money the development cost of the R500 and R520 has now been wrote off . I think ATI has been brillant . Here's WHY.
1). Don't introduce Shader 3 until its needed.
2). Wright off development cost of the R500 3rd qt. Write off cost of the R520 4th qt.
3).Show a large profit in the Fiscal first qt of 2006 that would be OCT.-Dec. 2005
4). Don't use more than 16 pipes till nvidia can beat. To be released soon X1800XT.
5). If nvidia does infact have an ultra to release . Ati will release the not yet on the road maps X1800XT PE with 24 working pipes.
6) In their R520 line build in the following but don't activate till needed
a) 512 bit internal memory controller( for now they will run it at 256 bits)
b) shader 4
c)Direct X 10.
d) 32 pipes
From what I have seen ATI has been Brilliant. I am also very sure theirs more in this GPU that will be unlocked when needed. We may not see them until R580 but their still designed into the architecture.
Last but not liste we are all aware that the G70's are presently CPU limeted (Except to the people who use the CRT and ultra expensive 24"lcd.)
The X850XT is cpu limeted in many games. Ati has seen this and until the Conroe from intel is released and games are developed for PPU whats the hurry.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
One thing i just thought of that people are forgetting about this delay:

ATI has to come up with some compelling reason (Performance, Feature etc) that makes there card a viable choice. People are not going to simply ditch all their shiny new cards just for a new card, it has to offer a tangible difference in someway much farther beyond that. For maybe 6 series and X series users not so much, but for 7 series users, this really needs to happen.

-Kevin

ati isn't going after people who already have a 7800 card. do you know how many people, who just bought a $400+ gfx card would really buy a new $500+ gfx card within 6 months? i mean, i guess you could sell the 7800, but i really don't think there is much of a market there.

 

[DRavisher]

Turtle 1, you redefine the words faith and expectation...

 

[Cooler]

Originally posted by: Turtle 1
Lets try to use a little reasoning as to why ATI lost money. They said they wouldn't ship cards til after fiscal 4TH QT. So in the QT that they have lost money the development cost of the R500 and R520 has now been wrote off . I think ATI has been brillant . Here's WHY.
1). Don't introduce Shader 3 until its needed.
2). Wright off development cost of the R500 3rd qt. Write off cost of the R520 4th qt.
3).Show a large profit in the Fiscal first qt of 2006 that would be OCT.-Dec. 2005
4). Don't use more than 16 pipes till nvidia can beat. To be released soon X1800XT.
5). If nvidia does infact have an ultra to release . Ati will release the not yet on the road maps X1800XT PE with 24 working pipes.
6) In their R520 line build in the following but don't activate till needed
a) 512 bit internal memory controller( for now they will run it at 256 bits)
b) shader 4
c)Direct X 10.
d) 32 pipes
From what I have seen ATI has been Brilliant. I am also very sure theirs more in this GPU that will be unlocked when needed. We may not see them until R580 but their still designed into the architecture.

I agree

They are storing the 24 pipe parts / 32 for later versions and shipping the 16 pipe now so they can make quick $

The R580 might be nothing more then unlocked/none defective r520 and if so they are playing it smart.


It would be like NVIDIA releasing 7800GT first then waiting 4 months and secretly storing parts for GTX .Then it would be releasing it but without telling anyone that GT was just a part that was defective. Thus you would have 2 Top of the line cards but your defective ones would make a huge profit.