R520 has 16pipelines

[edmundoab]

what happened to 24 pipelines??

geez

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: edmundoab
what happened to 24 pipelines??

geez

Does Duke Nukem forever seem like a good way of putting it ?

This is still all guess work. ATI hasn't confirmed any of it. Im still going to reserve judgement until the card is released.

-Kevin

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
geez... as i've stated over and over, # of pipes mean nothing without considering the rest of the architecture.. and we don't really have that information at this time... if the IQ is good, and performance is "on par" to the 7800's, then wtf difference does it make?

still amazes me how some folks seem to live and die by which manufacturer's product is faster... :roll:

Well, for those folks that like to o/c, how much further do you think they will get the already cranked to the balls R520?

 

[Keysplayr]

At any rate, I'm going to have to call BS on this one myself.
Have any of you seen the side by side photo of the R480 and the R520 cores?

They are just about identical in size, yet the R480 is 130nm, and the R520 is 90nm.

If they just shrunk a 16 pipe core to 90nm, it would be a lot smaller than that even with the extra SM3.0 transistors. My 2 cents.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
geez... as i've stated over and over, # of pipes mean nothing without considering the rest of the architecture.. and we don't really have that information at this time... if the IQ is good, and performance is "on par" to the 7800's, then wtf difference does it make?

still amazes me how some folks seem to live and die by which manufacturer's product is faster... :roll:

Well, for those folks that like to o/c, how much further do you think they will get the already cranked to the balls R520?

I guess we will have to wait for the reviews.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: dfloyd
Hmm seems many need a course in logic.

Like several above have said, if the card goes as fast as Nvidias high end then what does it matter how many pipes it has? I would not care if it had one pipe, if it ran games as fast as the 7800 and was cheaper.

Relativity people, come on, think about it. And on that note right now we dont know how anything stands. I seriously doubt they will release a slower product. I am guessing they are getting some impressive numbers with sixteen pipes is why they are going that route. And later on they will use the upgrade path to bring in cards with more pipes. So just because one card, maybe the first will have sixteen pipes is by no means a gurantee that other cards on the same chip will not have more.

So keep speculating, but drawing conclusions based on this kind of info is just silly.

Well it did say R520 will have 16 pipes. The other variants are R515 for the low end and R530 for the midrange.

16 pipes at a high clock frequency *MAY* enable the F520 to keep up with the 7800GTX.

But you have to take into account heat, and what's gonna happen when Nvidia and ATI "refresh" these cores??

Nvidia is gonna have no problem bumping the clock speeds while ATI is going to be stuck with an almost maxed out core design.

If this is true, ATI will lose marginally this round, but next round of GPUs... ATI is going to get lit up.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
At any rate, I'm going to have to call BS on this one myself.
Have any of you seen the side by side photo of the R480 and the R520 cores?

They are just about identical in size, yet the R480 is 130nm, and the R520 is 90nm.

If they just shrunk a 16 pipe core to 90nm, it would be a lot smaller than that even with the extra SM3.0 transistors. My 2 cents.

I'm hopping that extra size is to accommodate FP blending with AA, screw more pipes as long as they can make the ones they have fast enough to keep up with the compititioin.

 

[VIAN]

Wow, October Sucks ASS.

 

[KeepItRed]

Oh well, personally I think it's going to be 24 pipes, just because of the competition and the way noobs think sometimes EG: OMG 24 > 16 THIS CARD OWNS", but really not knowing the pysics behind the technology.

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
At any rate, I'm going to have to call BS on this one myself.
Have any of you seen the side by side photo of the R480 and the R520 cores?

They are just about identical in size, yet the R480 is 130nm, and the R520 is 90nm.

If they just shrunk a 16 pipe core to 90nm, it would be a lot smaller than that even with the extra SM3.0 transistors. My 2 cents.

I'm hopping that extra size is to accommodate FP blending with AA, screw more pipes as long as they can make the ones they have fast enough to keep up with the compititioin.

Think X800Pro vs X800XL

You can OC a Pro to death while the XL won't go 50mhz above stock, but the XL will come out on top everytime.

Pipes are very important. They make for a more efficient design.

If R520 had 24 pipes for example, they could drastically lower clock speeds and get the same performance. Then, when you wanna get the R520XT PE Ultra Mega I pwn j00 7800GTX Edition, the capability for the insane clock speeds are still there.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
geez... as i've stated over and over, # of pipes mean nothing without considering the rest of the architecture.. and we don't really have that information at this time... if the IQ is good, and performance is "on par" to the 7800's, then wtf difference does it make?

still amazes me how some folks seem to live and die by which manufacturer's product is faster... :roll:

BINGO... People need to stop thinking so narrowly. The R520 is a new architecture and it's going to have some cool new features to increase it's efficency. Who cares if it's 16 pipes, as long as it's competitive with the 7800 cards.

 

[Marsumane]

I really dont care to guess why they are so late to market or if this 16 pipe rumor is correct. I just hope they can have something competative before nv gets tired of waiting and releases its' refresh.

 

[biostud]

maybe it has embedded memory?, the post about release dates said something about a changed memory controllers. No harm has happened waiting for the r520 to ship, and not buying the 7800GTX at the launch day. Unless saving a few $$$ is harmful. Personally I would like to go back to nvidia because I like their drivers better, but I don't mind continuing using ATi.

 

[VIAN]

OMG. 16 "extreme" pipelines was every ATI fans worst nightmare. I hope this isn't true.

What's wrong with that?

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: AmberClad

So the R520 is the GPU world's version of the Prescott?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yep, think "inefficient design"

Having crazy amount of stages, like the Prescott, is different than pipelines vs clockspeed.

Don't get to cocky guys, The Inquirer is RARELY correct. This just looks like rumours/spec. Once it's confirmed in an interview or by an official, then I'll believe it, otherwise this is bs.

I don't think so. The inquirer comments on rumors. How often are rumors true. Very.

Yeah I saw that too. First they say 32, then 24, now 16. As most people say, the INQ is 50% correct. I find this true because sometimes they have links to back it up, most of the time they just type random sh*t and hope people believe it.

Of course, that couldn't have anything to do with ATI changin their estimates do to poor yields.

Won't the 16 pipe R520 get creamed by the 24 pipe 7800 GTX when AA/AF settings and resolution are cranked all the way up? Or can that 700MHz make up for the missing pipes even at extreme AA/AF settings?

No. if it lacks in pipes it can make up in clock speed.

geez... as i've stated over and over, # of pipes mean nothing without considering the rest of the architecture.. and we don't really have that information at this time... if the IQ is good, and performance is "on par" to the 7800's, then wtf difference does it make?

still amazes me how some folks seem to live and die by which manufacturer's product is faster...

Haven't seen you in a while - good post.

Performance maybe equal but the R520 is making use of an inefficient design.

high MHz = high heat = dual slot cooling = high noise

We'll see when the time comes about this. Your link sucked, you had to sign in.

A smaller process means zilch, just look at PressHot - 90nm and it's still hot and inefficient. Bear in mind that Intel is 1000 times bigger than ATI and Intel took sometime to master the 90nm process.

And look at AMD's Venice.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: LostTime77
I bet you that ATi's R520 will end up slightly faster than the 7800GTX but then Nvidia, to keep to be the top performer will release an ULTRA card. This could be a 7800GTX clocked at 500 mhz , it can be a 7800GTX clocked at 500 mhz and have 32 pipes or it can be a 7800GTX clocked at the standard speed and have 32 pipes. My belief is that Nvidia will release an ULTRA, and ATI will have no legs to stand on. Remember, I wouldnt hold it against Nvidia because they have had basically no yield problems and they brought out the 7800GTX with 24 pipes.

(7800Ultra?)
im reckoning on it being a 24 pipe card, i dont think they have plans for 32 for G70, i can see the Ultra (if it does indeed appear) to be 24 pipes but having seen cards such as the xfx come 490Mhz stock with stock cooling, and seen people fly past 550Mhz on water, i would expect the Ultra to grow an extra slot in HSF dimensions, and a chnage of HSF material from Aluminium to Copper, or a mixture of Cu and Al

 

[lavaheadache]

I will feel very let down if the R520 is anything less than a 32 pipe card that makes the g70 look like a voodoo banshee in comparison. I think they really need to make this card a blockbuster to prove to the world that after all of the x800 bashing going around (lack of sm3.0, hdr), that they are a more than just a one hit wonder(R300). bring on the competition. Then we'll see Nv scramble to pump out a masterpiece as well, cause I feel as though the G70 is mostly refresh, albeit a very nice refresh.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: malG

Originally posted by: McArra
Dual slot cooler doesn't mean loud, look at the AC Silencer for example.

Perhaps but looking at pics of the R520 from the ATI Launch Event in Sydney, the dual slot cooler is identical to the X850 PE and everyone knows that the X850 PE is bloody loud

only on start up...my friend has one of these, (think he got it in a dell XPS system but not sure) it sounds like a tornado at start up, but quickly turns the volume down to like a mild breeze. its audiable yeah, but its not intrusively loud

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
At any rate, I'm going to have to call BS on this one myself.
Have any of you seen the side by side photo of the R480 and the R520 cores?

They are just about identical in size, yet the R480 is 130nm, and the R520 is 90nm.

If they just shrunk a 16 pipe core to 90nm, it would be a lot smaller than that even with the extra SM3.0 transistors. My 2 cents.

I'm hopping that extra size is to accommodate FP blending with AA, screw more pipes as long as they can make the ones they have fast enough to keep up with the compititioin.

Think X800Pro vs X800XL

You can OC a Pro to death while the XL won't go 50mhz above stock, but the XL will come out on top everytime.

That is simply not the case, an x800pro at 600mhz has exactly the same fillrate of a x800xl at 450mhz.

16 * 450 = 7200
12 * 600 = 7200

Originally posted by: Matt2Pipes are very important. They make for a more efficient design.

If R520 had 24 pipes for example, they could drastically lower clock speeds and get the same performance. Then, when you wanna get the R520XT PE Ultra Mega I pwn j00 7800GTX Edition, the capability for the insane clock speeds are still there.

If only it were that simple, but adding transistor makes it harder to achive the same clockspeeds. As with many things, it is a trade off.

 

[EightySix Four]

I'm honestly hoping they're carying a little of the R500 tech over, maybe a lil bit of integrated memory for free AA?

 

[Elfear]

While I'll be disappointed if the R520 only has 16 pipes, I think it's very reasonable to conclude that it will be competetive with the 7800GTX. My X850XT PE clocked at 640/610 scored ~7500 in 3DMark05 which is just a few hundred points below what review sites were getting for the 7800GTX. I know 3DMark isn't always the best indication of overall performance but it does give you a good ballpark. In some games (HL2, FarCry, etc.) my oced X850XT PE was just as fast as my 7800GTX so even if the R520 is a 16 pipe card it could still be very competetive, especially with new optimizations over the R480 core.

I'm really hoping R520 will be faster though to give Nvidia a run for their money, plus it's kind of lame to launch a card 4-5 months after the competition and have it only be equal to it.

 

[xtknight]

Yes it will be on a smaller process, but remember, that (usually) means the transistors will leak more power (yielding more heat), so it's back to the drawing board (or take the easy route and release another Prescott). Remember that chart of an x86 processor and what would happen if they were on a 45 nm process, 35, etc...? It showed diminishing returns starting at 65 nm I think. And fill rate isn't everything either. NVIDIA did optimizations within their pipelines. Not only that, but you also have to account for the 8 "partial" ROPs on the G70.

 

[kylebisme]

Not usually, occasionally, so your concerns are rather exagerated.

 

[monster64]

You people don't get it. The r520 can actually have a BETTER fillrate than the 7800gtx. Think:
16pp x lets say 700mhz will be 11200. The gtx has 24pp x 430=10320. Which has the better fillrate? As for memory, pp don't matter, and ATI's memory will be faster, so naturally it will be better. I'm don't really take sides when it comes to video cards (I've owned just about as many AIT cards as Nvidia ones, both have been great.) Just think about it. Everyone whose saying "OMG 16 pp sucks" obviously don't know how fillrate works.

 

[hans030390]

Well, the x850 was 16 pipes...and with an uber OC, yeah, i could see it being as good as a 7800gtx. with SM3, it gets even better

assuming the R580 or whatever has more pipes, that will be an uber card probably.

i could be wrong.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: monster64
You people don't get it. The r520 can actually have a BETTER fillrate than the 7800gtx. Think:
16pp x lets say 700mhz will be 11200. The gtx has 24pp x 430=10320. Which has the better fillrate? As for memory, pp don't matter, and ATI's memory will be faster, so naturally it will be better. I'm don't really take sides when it comes to video cards (I've owned just about as many AIT cards as Nvidia ones, both have been great.) Just think about it. Everyone whose saying "OMG 16 pp sucks" obviously don't know how fillrate works.

Fill rate isn't the whole story either. What about shader performance? Practically every game uses shaders these days. We don't know if unified shaders are going to affect performance for the better or worse either, but lets hope the former.