R600 Delayed AGAIN!

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Of course you can. Customers don't want lame duck solutions or to be treated poorly. When you do that to them they embrace your competitor (and thats precisely what happened here)

Yes of course.. How didn't I think of this b4? And I thought ppl choose Intel over AMD because Core Duo was smashing the competition with its performance.. How stupid of me..

 

[Gstanfor]

Only people who are actually buying a whole new platform. The point is and remains that AMD already had an extremely large (and loyal) Socket 939 user base, who would have happily purchased another newer CPU for that platform had AMD not screwed them over. As I said before, AMD only needed to continue limited 939 production alongside socket AM2 (they managed it with Socket 754, why not for 939 also?)

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Only people who are actually buying a whole new platform. The point is and remains that AMD already had an extremely large (and loyal) Socket 939 user base, who would have happily purchased another newer CPU for that platform had AMD not screwed them over. As I said before, AMD only needed to continue limited 939 production alongside socket AM2 (they managed it with Socket 754, why not for 939 also?)

WTF are talking about? Why were they screwed? How can AM2 make little or no difference to S939 in terms of performace, and simultaneously ppl getting screwed and want a newer cpu? Your argument is full of flaws.. AMD didn't release any "important" cpu in AM2 that made the significant difference for a user in order to acquire it.. It was only for those who wanted the DDR-2 support..
Despite that S939 was way longer than S754 in the market, never mind AM2.. Once again AMD did not have the luxury of keeping the same socket since memory controller is integrated in the cpu.. Keeping S939 would have made no sense.. AM2 as you conveniently used in your previous example, IS for the ppl who wanted a new system or DDR-2 support.. What did you wanted them to do stay in DDR, while the competitor had DDR II? :roll:

 

[Gstanfor]

I hope AMD pays you well to defend them so vigorously jim. You'll notice that everone else who has commented on this in this thread has sided with me, not you.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
I hope AMD pays you well to defend them so vigorously jim.

Yeah that's why I have a Core Duo system for my main rig m8..
Oh wait I am just using this rig in my sig as an excuse to defend AMD..
Cmon Gstanfor get real man..

 

[Gstanfor]

I am real. AMD needs to go and look at at what made Super-7 and Socket-A as popular as they were, then compare that with the dogs breakfast they have made of K8.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

The level of fanboyism is at unbelievable heights in this thread and others. I'm ashamed that AT has become what it is today, I know in the past things were not nearly as bad.

AMD is a company, they run a business. They are in the business of making money, not pleasing YOU personally. Whatever decisions they make are primarily to keep their business afloat and profits as high as possible. You need to understand this fanboys. They do not exist solely to satisfy your needs. Designing high performance CPUs and videocards is NOT easy. I'd wager 90% of you don't know the first thing about either.

Yes AMD and ATI have made some mistakes. But to suggest that they are going out of business or to swear them off because of a delayed product launch is absolutely ridiculous. People like Appopin and Gstanfor need to stop taking these things to heart. Don't like AMD or ATI's business practices, then don't ****** buy their products. Stop ****** whining and creating threads every second complaining about how they are ****** things up. You are contributing nothing of value to the discussion of hardware, you only serve to drive away intelligent people who could have contributed something.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
The level of fanboyism is at unbelievable heights in this thread and others. I'm ashamed that AT has become what it is today, I know in the past things were not nearly as bad.

AMD is a company, they run a business. They are in the business of making money, not pleasing YOU personally. Whatever decisions they make are primarily to keep their business afloat and profits as high as possible. You need to understand this fanboys. They do not exist solely to satisfy your needs. Designing high performance CPUs and videocards is NOT easy. I'd wager 90% of you don't know the first thing about either.

Yes AMD and ATI have made some mistakes. But to suggest that they are going out of business or to swear them off because of a delayed product launch is absolutely ridiculous. People like Appopin and Gstanfor need to stop taking these things to heart. Don't like AMD or ATI's business practices, then don't ****** buy their products. Stop ****** whining and creating threads every second complaining about how they are ****** things up. You are contributing nothing of value to the discussion of hardware, you only serve to drive away intelligent people who could have contributed something.

the level of stupidity is high also with some of you

Stop *defending* stupid marketing FUD spun by AMD to *excuse* their extraordinary lateness

what *profit*?


AMD is not doing a very good job of "making money" ...
-- i'd say they are doing an awesome job of p!ssing away their reputation and investor confidence

 

[Gstanfor]

Do you sell and support PCs for a living Sudheer Anne? Believe me I *know* what a very large proportion of avergae users want and have come to expect from AMD. I also know what happens when they can't get what they want from AMD...

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Do you sell and support PCs for a living Sudheer Anne? Believe me I *know* what a very large proportion of avergae users want and have come to expect from AMD. I also know what happens when they can't get what they want from AMD...

Are YOU a marketing analyst for a multi-billion dollar company? I'm sure they *know* their business much better than some random Nvidia zealot on an internet forum.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Do you sell and support PCs for a living Sudheer Anne? Believe me I *know* what a very large proportion of avergae users want and have come to expect from AMD. I also know what happens when they can't get what they want from AMD...

Are YOU a marketing analyst for a multi-billion dollar company? I'm sure they *know* their business much better than some random Nvidia zealot on an internet forum.

what about the ATi zealot that defends their company's every stupid move?


apparently they *don't know* their business very well
:thumbsdown:

*both* intel and nvidia is kicking the crap outta AMD ... and they say "don't worry, we're responding to the market"
:roll:

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Of course you can. Customers don't want lame duck solutions or to be treated poorly. When you do that to them they embrace your competitor (and thats precisely what happened here)

Socket 939 actually lasted 2 good years which is an age for technology. 423 by comparison lasted less than 1 year.

Intel wanted to foist BTX on all of us and well that hasn't turned out very well has it.

Want a real disaster? Try Socket 423 & by default early P4 CPU's which were beyond a joke. Add tothat RDRAM and now FBDIMM, neither exactly popular.

What about the multiple of VRM specs that Socket 775 went through? When Socket T (775) came out there was uproar from the Intel enthusiasts for ditching DDR, AGP etc.

Blow off about AMD all you want but Intel has made it's fair share of so called "mistakes" in those areas or does your memory stop short of that?

 

[Gstanfor]

No, my memory is fine thanks. But that doesn't stop customers from leaving AMD regardless and it is no excuse for foisting the whole socket debacle onto us in the first place. The debacle isn't over yet - isn't Socket AM2 close to undergoing a change to support cpu's after Barcelona? As I said before, AMD knew years ago that this is what would happen (CPU's don't get designed overnight) and should have released K8 with an appropriate docket from the get-go.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin
what about the ATi zealot that defends their company's every stupid move?


apparently they *don't know* their business very well
:thumbsdown:

*both* intel and nvidia is kicking the crap outta AMD ... and they say "don't worry, we're responding to the market"
:roll:

So, who do you think understands AMD/ATI's business tactics better? Their own analysts or Gstanfor?

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
what about the ATi zealot that defends their company's every stupid move?


apparently they *don't know* their business very well
:thumbsdown:

*both* intel and nvidia is kicking the crap outta AMD ... and they say "don't worry, we're responding to the market"
:roll:

So, who do you think understands AMD/ATI's business tactics better? Their own analysts or Gstanfor?

I dont believe ANYONE from AMD/ATI for S**T.

They're in full damage control mode and if you cant see that and take it for what it is, then you have no business calling gstanfor out.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
what about the ATi zealot that defends their company's every stupid move?


apparently they *don't know* their business very well
:thumbsdown:

*both* intel and nvidia is kicking the crap outta AMD ... and they say "don't worry, we're responding to the market"
:roll:

So, who do you think understands AMD/ATI's business tactics better? Their own analysts or Gstanfor?

I dont believe ANYONE from AMD/ATI for S**T.

They're in full damage control mode and if you cant see that and take it for what it is, then you have no business calling gstanfor out.

Why you people are getting so mad about this is what I cannot understand. This is not something worth getting angry about, unless you have significant capital invested in AMD or ATI, which I'd wager none of you do.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
what about the ATi zealot that defends their company's every stupid move?


apparently they *don't know* their business very well
:thumbsdown:

*both* intel and nvidia is kicking the crap outta AMD ... and they say "don't worry, we're responding to the market"
:roll:

So, who do you think understands AMD/ATI's business tactics better? Their own analysts or Gstanfor?

FIRST of all, AMD's analysts will *never* tell you what they REALLY think ... you are only hearing AMD's marketing in action --spinning FUD ... they are in 100% "full damage control"

i am 100% certain AMD's analysts *know* how precarious their company's position is ... what they *needed* to do was put a leash and a muzzle on their slobberingly stupid marketing department and now terminate whoever was in charge of their latest 'release delay' excuses.

Just making up obviously *stupid excuses*, attacking their competition and making more unfounded "promises" ... is really lame and their "see thru" BS, is - imo - unforgivable.

if they are looking to cut "extra" workforce, AMD should get some real direction, find a good "story" and stick with it ... and start by firing their marketing department's management.

i am not *angry* ...
... disappointed ... yes ... and perhaps even 'irritated' by reading the current crap that AMD is insulting thinking people with.

i am certain they do not believe their own weak BS excuses --why should they expect anyone else to?


--do not confuse a strong position with anger

 

[apoppin]

you think i am alone ... a "former fan" ?

what about AMD's PARTNERS ??
:Q

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20070302VL201.html

Graphics partners try to keep the faith as AMD pulls the rug on CeBIT

Ricky Morris, DigiTimes.com, Taipei [Friday 2 March 2007]

Reports from Taiwan's graphics card manufacturing industry are revealing that AMD's recently announced delay of its upcoming flagship graphics processing unit (GPU), the R600, was not just a shock and disappointment to fans of the former-ATI, who have been waiting for graphics cards based on the new chip, but also to AMD's partners, who were set to introduce products based on the chip at CeBIT in March.

AMD and its partners were arranging to launch R600-based products at CeBIT, according to industry sources, and live demos were being planned by individual partners. These have now almost all been canceled after the announcement by AMD, with only a few select few partners being allowed to show demo systems ? provided by AMD ? in private showings, while the rest will have to make do with showcasing old products or, at best, new variations of old products at one of the industry's largest trade shows, which starts in a little than over two weeks, on March 15.

But it's not the inconvenience that's causing problems for the card makers, but rather the uncertainty that the late change of plans casts over AMD's ability to deliver in the graphics card market and its hope of being able to compete with Nvidia following the AMD-ATI merger. Nvidia launched its current high-end GPU in November 2006.

According to graphics card makers, the R600 is AMD's hope of getting back on top and the delay only serves to highlight how far behind the company has fallen. The fear that many card makers now face is that supporters of the ATI brand who have been waiting months for the new product will finally decide enough is enough, the effect of which would be reduced confidence, and therefore sales, of all ATI-branded products.

However, despite the doubts, it still appears that graphics card makers are backing AMD and hope that the company will succeed. "We have our fingers crossed," said one maker while another asked everyone to "keep the faith." With the R600 launch now scheduled for early in the second quarter amid added speculation that mainstream (R630) and low-end (R610) parts will launch at the same time, the new plans could result in AMD having a complete top-to-bottom product lineup at launch, a rare occurrence in the graphics market, but one that many industry experts believe may prove successful for the company.

do i have to draw you a *picture*?

*the above* is what *i* have BEEN saying ... ALL along.


well put article

i *hope* AMD succeeds ... but they are LOST and drifting

just fire AMD's STUPID "analysts" and hire me ... i could still fix it


IF r600 is not a big success performance-wise or does not launch 2nd Quarter, expect some defections of AMD's partners

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
what about the ATi zealot that defends their company's every stupid move?


apparently they *don't know* their business very well
:thumbsdown:

*both* intel and nvidia is kicking the crap outta AMD ... and they say "don't worry, we're responding to the market"
:roll:

So, who do you think understands AMD/ATI's business tactics better? Their own analysts or Gstanfor?

I dont believe ANYONE from AMD/ATI for S**T.

They're in full damage control mode and if you cant see that and take it for what it is, then you have no business calling gstanfor out.

Why you people are getting so mad about this is what I cannot understand. This is not something worth getting angry about, unless you have significant capital invested in AMD or ATI, which I'd wager none of you do.

What makes you think I'm mad? Actually I couldnt give two sh1ts about R600 itself. I'm more annoyed at the business practices of AMD.

I dont like the fact that they are trying to spoon feed us (consumers) their lies and damage control PR BS.

What I REALLY dont like is the type of company AMD is becoming. ATI was always a garbage company which was run very poorly, but AMD had its head on straight and *EARNED* my business. Instead of AMD turning ATI around, it's ATI that is turning AMD around for the worst.

Have you seen AMD's stock and earnings figures lately? They are abysmal compared to Nvidia and Intel. Throw in the fact that AMD has a huge debt after taking over ATI and has no competitive products to combat Intel OR Nvidia...

As of now, AMD is in trouble. They better do something spectacular in the next couple of months cause I dont want Intel and Nvidia to have monopolies in their respective markets.

 

[apoppin]

AMD's partners evidently feel the way most of us do about AMD's "fud distraction dance"

However, despite the doubts, it still appears that graphics card makers are backing AMD and hope that the company will succeed. "We have our fingers crossed," said one maker while another asked everyone to "keep the faith." With the R600 launch now scheduled for early in the second quarter amid added speculation that mainstream (R630) and low-end (R610) parts will launch at the same time, the new plans could result in AMD having a complete top-to-bottom product lineup at launch, a rare occurrence in the graphics market

THIS is a realistic assessment ^above^

we *hope* ... have *our fingers crossed* ... they are asking the other partners and AMD fans to *keep the faith*

i guess that means we should *pray* for AMD and ask for god's help out of their *mess*
:roll:

 

[apoppin]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37982

AMD asks to double common stock to 1.5 billion shares

Not an anti-takeover move

By Cher Price: Saturday 03 March 2007, 15:37
CHIP FIRM AMD said its authorised capital stock is 750 million shares of common stock and 1,000,000 preferred shares.

But, it said in an SEC filing it made yesterday, that the board of directors approved an amendment to double the shares from 750 million to 1.5 billion. That needs shareholder consent.

The AMD SEC filing said the motivation wasn't to prevent a takeover. "Our Board of Directors believes that it is in the best interests of the stockholders for the Board of Directors to have the flexibility to issue additional shares of Common Stock in any or all of the above circumstances. Although the issuance of additional shares of Common Stock could, in certain instances, discourage an attempt by another person or entity to acquire control of us, we have not proposed the increase in the number of authorized shares of common stock with the intention of using the additional authorized shares for anti-takeover purposes."

But, to the extent that the additional shares are issued they might decrease shareholders' percentage equity and dilute voting rights, earnings, and book value. The board recommends that shareholders vote "for" this proposal.

The shareholders' meeting is on May 3rd. If shareholders don't vote, a "for" will be presumed.

Currently the following outfits own more than five per cent of common stock as of this coming Monday: Capital Research Management Company of LA (57,267,600), Oppenheimer (42,722,190) and AXA of Paris, France (28,182,589). µ

* MEANWHILE A SET of separate SEC filings was made yesterday. Harry Wolin disposed of 2,380 shares at $15.07 and took options* of 9,000 shares at $0; Martin Seyer disposed of 2,500 shares at $15.07 and acquired 9,000 options at $0; Hector Ruiz disposed of 16,663 shares at $15.07 and took options on 63,000 at $0; Robert River disposed of 18,000 shares at between $14.66 and $14.99 and took options of 18,000 at $0; Henri Richard disposed of 6,435 shares at $15.07 and took options of 18,000 at $0; Derrick Meyer disposed of 4,761 shares at $15.07 and took options of 18,000 at $0; and Thomas McCoy disposed of 12,000 shares at $15.0359 and took options of 12,000 at $0.

* CORRECTION These are restricted stock units (RSUs), less risky than options.

they SAY they want *flexibility* .. of course .. to deal with a hostile takeover

and *amazing timing* on AMD's part ... you still say they are NOT "in trouble"?
:brokenheart:

looks like an anti-takeover move to me
:Q

 

[Gstanfor]

Well, I'm looking to retire the oldest of my Socket-A rigs very soon now, and I've decided I'll give AMD one last chance (as much as I think AMD has made some idiotic decisions lately, I would still rather give them my money than intel --for now--). Let us all hope there is some fiendishly clever master plan we have yet to see or this (A64 X2 6000+) may be the last AMD CPU I ever purchase, which would be sad -except for an IBM blue lightning 486 every x86 CPU I've ever owned has been AMD and I've sold many thousands more to consumers over the years.

 

[Gstanfor]

link1
link2

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=4727

Quote:
===========================================================================
w0mbat in our forums has found the following information in the latest Forceware drivers for Vista :
NVIDIA_G80.DEV_0191.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX"
NVIDIA_G80.DEV_0193.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS"
NVIDIA_G80.DEV_0194.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8800 Ultra"
NVIDIA_G80.DEV_019E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 4600"
NVIDIA_G84.DEV_0400.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GTS"
NVIDIA_G84.DEV_0402.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT"
NVIDIA_G86.DEV_0421.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT"
NVIDIA_G86.DEV_0422.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS"
NVIDIA_G86.DEV_0423.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 8300 GS"
It seems that NVIDIA is planning for a higher clocked GeForce 8800 Ultra and a cheaper GeForce 8400GS card.
===========================================================================
Sounds like a higher OCed 8800GTX with samsung 1.0ns GDDR3 memory or GDDR4?

IMO this indicates that nVIDIA knows that they dont need a G80 refresh to fight against R600 when its launched.

:evil:

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
AMD could easily have waited for Barcelona et-al to introduce DDR-II support. They could also have manufactured small amounts of the older cpu's along side the new for upgraders, but I guess doing that would show up the pointlessness of AM2 performance-wise a little more starkly than they would like...

With the DDR-3 coming up in the Q2-Q3 2k7 do you honestly believe that it would be a good idea to have delayed their DDR-II support that much? It's like they would have left the DDR-2 market out of the picture for themselves.. I don't think so.. What AMD did wrong was the stupid and premature move from S754 to S939.. They could have kept the S754 until DDR-2 imho..But then again there was the move from AGP->PCIx as wel so..It was not about the performance, it was about the ram support..

If DDR-II support doesn't offer performance worth a damn ( :evil: a DAAMIT? :evil: ), then yes, they should have skipped right over DDR-II support, particuarly in light of how strong DDR support still was and is.

And yes, Athlon64 has been one huge socket fiasco from start to finish. You can't tell me AMD couldn't have anticipated the number of pins Athlon64 would eventually require and simply have designed the socket accordingly from the outset... Having said that most were fairly forgiving of the 754 -- 939 transition because it coincided with the phasing in of PCI-e and out of AGP, socket AM2 on the other hand is completely and utterly pointless.

Agree completely but I'd go one step further s754 was pointless too since they had DC fiqured out in 940... but no, they tried to force people into expensive 940 (FX51) solutions if they wanted dual channel and released a crippled platform for "mainstream", s754. AMD also screwed the 754 users over by releasing DC 939 just 5 months later and at the same time screwed the FX51 users over who just dropped their wallet on expensive board, ECC/Registered mem and FX because that was slower than 939 with additional mem wait state ECC/Registered mem provides.

RE: AM2 sux, its slower than 939 in every test I've ran despite anands tests because you could clock DDR so high.. TCCD easy 3-3-3 1T@300mhz or BH5/micronD/G seeing 2-2-2 1T@250mhz well outperforming DDR2 800 4-4-4

 

[Gstanfor]

Unless I (or you/other consumers) want to support Intel I am forced into buying AM2 though. Oh well, one nice side effect is that I'll keep my current 939 rig and just retire my oldest socket A.