R600 Delayed AGAIN!

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Even the X1950XTX is an R300 on steroids in its own way.

An 580 is an R300 on steroids eh? Is that how you sorted this out, this time? This can probably be said about X800/X850 series, but nothing beyond that.

As far as I can see R580 was the first real detachment from R300. It may even apply to X1800 for it's intro of the ring bus controller.

If I were AMD/ATI (courtesy for ArchAngel) I would definitely release some sort of benchmarks of R600 to try and put a tournaquite on the bleeding. Like Intel did with Conroe.
Since they have not done so, (leak benches) which is what a good marketing department would do, I'm going to have to assume that they "can't" get it working right, or cannot beat Nvidia's flagship.

I mean honestly, if you have a piece of hardware that was touted to embarrass a G80, wouldn't you show it? Even if the product was not ready for retail yet, wouldn't you show what it can do to quell Nvidia sales that could have been yours?

Something BIG is wrong here.
I agree that something big is wrong. It's more than likely 80nm, but you may well be right in that it's underperforming. It's late, and ATI should just embarass themselves at this point IMO. Time for a new project to work on.

As for my R300 comment, I've read that the R520 is an enhanced R300, and that the R580 is simply an R520 with far more shaders and a new memory interface. The core GPU components are pretty similar. I'm simply pointing out the lack of ingenuity on ATI's part post R300, which I do feel is valid.

Out of curiousity, why can't they make the GPU at 65nm seeing as AMD is making CPUs with that tech right now?
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,560
834
126
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: schneiderguy
Originally posted by: apoppin

If r600 is not a success there will be NO r700

one bad generation wont kill a company. look at nvidia during the FX disaster -- they survived just fine. even though the entire fx line pretty much sucked, they still survived.

look at how well the FX5200 sold. sure, it was really slow, but OMG IT HAS DX9!1!!!. IMO, that's what ATI needs to do right now - get a low end DX10 part out, and it WILL sell a lot of cards with a decent marketing strategy that pushes it's advantage over "outdated" dx9 cards even though it will probably be slower than the higher end dx9 cards available today. Dell/hp and the big computer companies will probably buy a bunch for their "ultimate gaming" computers. at the very least it'll give ATI some more revenue AND make people think more highly of them in case they cant get r600 out the door for another 3-4 months.

AMD already had its ass handed to it with Core2duo

now they are really embarassingly late with x2800 and had to CANCEL a HARD launch
:Q

that is BAD news and indicating serious problems inside their company

IF Barcelona ALSO fails to BEAT intel's best ... well ...

... then ...
R.I.P. :brokenheart:

i am hoping for a *miracle* ... now

Dell sell's AMD system now, regardless of that C2D are selling better then AM2 chips. I'd imagine from Dell jumping on board alone AMD is selling a record number of CPU's.

AMD isn't going anywhere, I don't care how much better any future Intel cpu's are, also ATi isn't going anywhere.
 

dreddfunk

Senior member
Jun 30, 2005
358
0
0
There could be something 'big' wrong, or maybe not. We won't really know until ATI/AMD starts competing in the DX10 market.

When I read the article, however, something different stood out to me: Ruiz's comments almost seemed like a snide statement about Vista adoption (or lack thereof).

Either the "better align our strategy with current market opportunities...to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10" is just a smokescreen or it's Ruiz saying that current Vista adoption is so low that they don't see the business sense in launching a high-end, DX 10 part right now, especially since there aren't any games ready.

This could either backfire on them or be a very savvy business move. If they can align the hard launch of a product that bests the 8800 (or 8900 series if that comes sooner) at the time when Vista adoption starts to speed up (possibly because DX 10 games start being released) then it would be a real coup. Most folks don't upgrade to the latest and greatest just because it's available; they do it because it gets them something they want.

As fantastic as the 8800 series is (and I think it's fantastic, I sure wish I had one), there isn't any compelling reason to buy one right now unless you have a really high-end monitor.

This could all backfire, however, if they tick off enough of the enthusiast market, a la Intel of a few years back. Eventually customers get upset with the shrewd marketing gambits.

Then again, if the consensus on this board is correct, the chances that ATI has a shrewd marketing plan are slim to none.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: QueBert
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: schneiderguy
Originally posted by: apoppin

If r600 is not a success there will be NO r700

one bad generation wont kill a company. look at nvidia during the FX disaster -- they survived just fine. even though the entire fx line pretty much sucked, they still survived.

look at how well the FX5200 sold. sure, it was really slow, but OMG IT HAS DX9!1!!!. IMO, that's what ATI needs to do right now - get a low end DX10 part out, and it WILL sell a lot of cards with a decent marketing strategy that pushes it's advantage over "outdated" dx9 cards even though it will probably be slower than the higher end dx9 cards available today. Dell/hp and the big computer companies will probably buy a bunch for their "ultimate gaming" computers. at the very least it'll give ATI some more revenue AND make people think more highly of them in case they cant get r600 out the door for another 3-4 months.

AMD already had its ass handed to it with Core2duo

now they are really embarassingly late with x2800 and had to CANCEL a HARD launch
:Q

that is BAD news and indicating serious problems inside their company

IF Barcelona ALSO fails to BEAT intel's best ... well ...

... then ...
R.I.P. :brokenheart:

i am hoping for a *miracle* ... now

Dell sell's AMD system now, regardless of that C2D are selling better then AM2 chips. I'd imagine from Dell jumping on board alone AMD is selling a record number of CPU's.

AMD isn't going anywhere, I don't care how much better any future Intel cpu's are, also ATi isn't going anywhere.

IF they fail both r600 AND Barcelona - expect AMD to be UNrecognizable in 3 years ... an much smaller and less important company

their stocks can only take a *beating* for so long .. and they will have to borrow money and probably lose major partners to intel and nvidia

AMD:music:

and ATi is already *gone* ... swallowed up by AMD so they only exist as a *Division*

dreddfunk, Ruiz IS saying they don't currently have a *competitive configuration* with r600

it is EMBARRASSING to him personally ... they SCHEDULED a hard launch

the CANCELLED it for r600 performance reasons

it ain't *competitive*
:thumbsdown:

that is BIG news and a HUGE *issue*
:Q
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: dreddfunk
There could be something 'big' wrong, or maybe not. We won't really know until ATI/AMD starts competing in the DX10 market.

When I read the article, however, something different stood out to me: Ruiz's comments almost seemed like a snide statement about Vista adoption (or lack thereof).

Either the "better align our strategy with current market opportunities...to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10" is just a smokescreen or it's Ruiz saying that current Vista adoption is so low that they don't see the business sense in launching a high-end, DX 10 part right now, especially since there aren't any games ready.

This could either backfire on them or be a very savvy business move. If they can align the hard launch of a product that bests the 8800 (or 8900 series if that comes sooner) at the time when Vista adoption starts to speed up (possibly because DX 10 games start being released) then it would be a real coup. Most folks don't upgrade to the latest and greatest just because it's available; they do it because it gets them something they want.

As fantastic as the 8800 series is (and I think it's fantastic, I sure wish I had one), there isn't any compelling reason to buy one right now unless you have a really high-end monitor.

This could all backfire, however, if they tick off enough of the enthusiast market, a la Intel of a few years back. Eventually customers get upset with the shrewd marketing gambits.

Then again, if the consensus on this board is correct, the chances that ATI has a shrewd marketing plan are slim to none.
That's a clever argument and you could well be absolutely correct.

There are *no* games right now that require even an 8800GTX. R600 is simply for glory at the moment.

That said, when R300 came out, DX9 hadn't even been released yet, and obviously there were no DX9 games out. It took close to a year until Far Cry came out. I suppose the difference was that games like UT2004 actually needed the additional GPU power, and it allowed features like AA/AF to be widely used for the first time (GF4 aside).

*So*, it would go against ATI's history, but perhaps AMD has a different marketing strategy.

I'm almost curious about them merging the Barcelona core with the R600 GPU. I know it's a pipe dream but I can't resist considering the slim possibility that it could happen.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Out of curiousity, what has ATI released since they were acquired by AMD? I can't think of a single major release. Perhaps discreet graphics are indeed dead, or very soon-to-be-dead.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
what nonsense

RE READ Hector's Quote .. straight from the horse's
we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market

did you even notice the *we're going to* ?

that means we don't currently have a *competitive configuration*

:roll:

AMD is way behind[period] they can't deliver what they *promised*

that IS "engineering"
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Out of curiousity, what has ATI released since they were acquired by AMD? I can't think of a single major release. Perhaps discreet graphics are indeed dead, or very soon-to-be-dead.


With the greatest majority of games being tied to consoles, vista problems, runaway power consumption and etc. I would say you are right in the long run. Still Nvidia and the old Ati both make a good portion of their cash from discreet graphics - so likely to last as long as they can make it last.

Vista problems will likely go away, but how many people will stay interested in high end graphics with only play station games and bolted on dx10 fog or something remains to be seen.

If amd dies, I hope intel comes up with a cool and quiet - energy saving thing. But if amd dies, we are more likely to get planned obsolescence, before we get innovation. :beer:
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
what nonsense

RE READ Hector's Quote .. straight from the horse's
we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market

did you even notice the *we're going to* ?

that means we don't currently have a *competitive configuration*

:roll:

AMD is way behind[period] they can't deliver what they *promised*

that IS "engineering"
It's well known that they don't have a competetive configuration. I don't think the X1950XTX could win a single benchmark against the 8800GTX, let alone two of them. :Q

He could have said that AMD/ATI would deliver a "competetive configuration" six months ago, and it would have essentially meant just as much to us.

They're just hitting technical snags. 80nm methinks. :beer:
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Hector R was talking about the postponed r600 ... AMD doesn't have a competitive configuration *now* ... that's *why* it is being held back instead of being released as scheduled

right now - for what ever *issue* - 8800 would kick it's butt ... AMD cannot afford that

probably *same thing* that happened with x1800 ...
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
Hector R was talking about the postponed r600 ... AMD doesn't have a competitive configuration *now* ... that's *why* it is being held back instead of being released as scheduled

right now - for what ever *issue* - 8800 would kick it's butt ... AMD cannot afford that

probably *same thing* that happened with x1800 ...
So then what are they going to do? Re-engineer it? It's already been re-engineered like SIX TIMES! :Q

Perhaps they should just call it a day and release a dual-core X1950XTX on 80nm.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: apoppin
Hector R was talking about the postponed r600 ... AMD doesn't have a competitive configuration *now* ... that's *why* it is being held back instead of being released as scheduled

right now - for what ever *issue* - 8800 would kick it's butt ... AMD cannot afford that

probably *same thing* that happened with x1800 ...
So then what are they going to do? Re-engineer it? It's already been re-engineered like SIX TIMES! :Q

Perhaps they should just call it a day and release a dual-core X1950XTX on 80nm.

no no no

they have a *backup plan* if r600 completely melts down ... it is the r660 that is scheduled for Fall that would be their hope

what happened with x1800 was a bug in the silicon ... something that took MONTHS to hunt down ... it kept x1800 from reaching its targeted clockspeed and further messed up their yields. An they might have *never* found that bug ... in which case, x1900 would be released completely skipping x1800

*something* - they won't tell anyone about now - is keeping r600 from being "competitive" ... and OBVIOUSLY they found this issue at the last minute or they would NOT have scheduled the launch for CeBit ... or perhaps they thought they had it *worked out* but found problems.

at least this is what i gather
 

dreddfunk

Senior member
Jun 30, 2005
358
0
0
appopin - simply put, maybe, maybe not. The quote you snipped out ran across two sentences and severely distorts the meaning, but such are the ways we try to divine what statements like these really mean, so no harm, no foul.

It's entirely possible that ATI/AMD aren't competitive right now. It's also entirely possible that the only thing they can bring out right now is a reasonably competitive, high-end card.

Yet surely they know precisely what nVidia has waiting: great mid-range GPU's to spoil their release (look, we've made DX10 affordable) and a refresh of the high-end parts just as DX10 games arrive to retake the performance crown (look, we can run Crysis faster).

If you've got a good idea of what your competitor plans, I don't see why you would walk into the trap. If you read the latter part of Ruiz' statement, he suggests another idea:

"To better align our strategy with current market opportunities, we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market with an extremely attractive combination of performance, features and pricing, targeting a broader market segment in Q2. With the revised strategy, AMD will be better able to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10, being driven in part by the growing popularity of Windows Vista?."

Ruiz's statement clearly says that they're looking to "address a broader market segment in Q2." If I were placing bets, I'd bet on an introduction of both high-end and mid-range parts in Q2 instead of just high-end parts now.

Wreckage says that a lot of people are simply going to move to the 8800 because of the delay, and that may be the case. It's also clearly the case, however, that a lot of people are waiting on R600, just in case it does ofter a serious leap in performance.

My best guess is that ATI/AMD know R600 isn't a serious leap and that bringing it out now will give nVidia (and the rest of us) a really good idea of how their midrange parts are going to perform. At that point, with the immediate release of the 8600 and the pretty sure knowledge that the ATI/AMD parts aren't going to blow it away, nVidia has got the initial DX10 market almost sewn-up.

They've got the early adopters of the 8800. Check. They've got the opportunity to retake the performance crown before any DX10 games debut. Check. They've got the bargain hunters with the cut-down 8800's. Check. And they've got the budget gamers with the mid-range 8600. Check.

No way in heck would I walk into this trap. It may tick people off to keep them waiting, but you keep them wondering too.

Let me reiterate I don't think this is likely but, given ATI/AMD's position right now, if they just plow ahead with a high-end release and no budget cards that doesn't blow the 8800 away, they're in for a rough ride over the next few months.

 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: apoppin
Hector R was talking about the postponed r600 ... AMD doesn't have a competitive configuration *now* ... that's *why* it is being held back instead of being released as scheduled

right now - for what ever *issue* - 8800 would kick it's butt ... AMD cannot afford that

probably *same thing* that happened with x1800 ...
So then what are they going to do? Re-engineer it? It's already been re-engineered like SIX TIMES! :Q

Perhaps they should just call it a day and release a dual-core X1950XTX on 80nm.

no no no

they have a *backup plan* if r600 completely melts down ... it is the r660 that is scheduled for Fall that would be their hope

what happened with x1800 was a bug in the silicon ... something that took MONTHS to hunt down ... it kept x1800 from reaching its targeted clockspeed and further messed up their yields. An they might have *never* found that bug ... in which case, x1900 would be released completely skipping x1800

*something* - they won't tell anyone about now - is keeping r600 from being "competitive" ... and OBVIOUSLY they found this issue at the last minute or they would NOT have scheduled the launch for CeBit ... or perhaps they thought they had it *worked out* but found problems.

at least this is what i gather
It must be serious.

I thought the chip already "taped out". Does this mean that the tape-out was unsuccessful? How could they possibly get snagged this late in the process? As for performance, can they accurately simlate it prior to the chip taping out?

Also, what about those "benchmarks" showing the R600 ~20% faster than the 8800GTX?

Something is amiss here. ATI is hiding something *big*. I have a feeling the shareholders won't like the wool being pulled over their eyes yet again. Not good news.

Has this ever happened before? I've never before seen a tech company admit defeat and "chicken out" like this. Very strange.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
it did tape out

there were *samples* circulating among the partners ... and leaked benchs ... they were so *sure* r600 was ready, they set a firm date, issued the invitations and scheduled the flights, hotel rooms and other necessary preparations for the r600 launch "celebration" ... a really *Big* show to upstage nvidia's launch of the 8800

*something* must have gone really [really] (i mean REALLY) wrong at the last hour to have to *cancel* the Launch and give a nebulous Q2 for a reschedule.

OTHERWISE - if it were "minor" [e.g. yield or supply]- they would still have the launch and delay the product for a month .. fans would forgive another soft launch

obviously it could be early Q2 IF they find and fix what's wrong

but it *looks* to me that they don't KNOW what's wrong yet

and that is always bad

and that IS engineering

EDIT Hector Ruiz is NOT lying to the shareholders ... he IS telling the truth ... they ARE waiting to deliver a competitive product

it is right there, hidden among the Fluff

 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Even the X1950XTX is an R300 on steroids in its own way.

An 580 is an R300 on steroids eh? Is that how you sorted this out, this time? This can probably be said about X800/X850 series, but nothing beyond that.

As far as I can see R580 was the first real detachment from R300. It may even apply to X1800 for it's intro of the ring bus controller.

If I were AMD/ATI (courtesy for ArchAngel) I would definitely release some sort of benchmarks of R600 to try and put a tournaquite on the bleeding. Like Intel did with Conroe.
Since they have not done so, (leak benches) which is what a good marketing department would do, I'm going to have to assume that they "can't" get it working right, or cannot beat Nvidia's flagship.

I mean honestly, if you have a piece of hardware that was touted to embarrass a G80, wouldn't you show it? Even if the product was not ready for retail yet, wouldn't you show what it can do to quell Nvidia sales that could have been yours?

Something BIG is wrong here.
I agree that something big is wrong. It's more than likely 80nm, but you may well be right in that it's underperforming. It's late, and ATI should just embarass themselves at this point IMO. Time for a new project to work on.

As for my R300 comment, I've read that the R520 is an enhanced R300, and that the R580 is simply an R520 with far more shaders and a new memory interface. The core GPU components are pretty similar. I'm simply pointing out the lack of ingenuity on ATI's part post R300, which I do feel is valid.

Out of curiousity, why can't they make the GPU at 65nm seeing as AMD is making CPUs with that tech right now?

You cannot divorce the process from the design. Conversely you cannot simply force a design onto a particular process. Some designs take 2-3 years in anticipation of a particular process (65nm) being available at speciific design rules and performance metrics (spice model). As such it is not simply a matter of divorcing the R600 design from the node it was created for and re-marrying it to a node that was never envisioned by the layour folks. You can do it with time of course, but it still takes a year.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
Might not be the first to say this but, wonder if they skipped 2800 because they knew they wouldn't be able to launch it in time and didn't want a repeat of the 1800/1900 thing.
 

ronnn

Diamond Member
May 22, 2003
3,918
0
71
Originally posted by: SickBeast

Has this ever happened before? I've never before seen a tech company admit defeat and "chicken out" like this. Very strange.

Like to see your link for that quote. :laugh:

This is a strange situation, but not sure it quite this dire a soap opera.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
sure here you go:
isn't it really *clear* after reading this ... AMD amits they DON'T have a *competitive* product in r600:

http://www.techpowerup.com/?25870
I just got off the phone with ATI who informed me that the Editor's Day which was scheduled around March 11 (flights and hotels were already booked) has been postponed to the second quarter of 2007.
The reason is that their R600 Series is not where they want it to be yet, so they decided to move the launch to be able to deliver a competitive product. Also I am hearing that at the Q2 launch we will see more than just GPU related stuff, so I would guess Physics or GPGPU computing.

"To better align our strategy with current market opportunities, we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market with an extremely attractive combination of performance, features and pricing, targeting a broader market segment in Q2. With the revised strategy, AMD will be better able to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10, being driven in part by the growing popularity of Windows Vista?."

"This was a tough decision to make for us, but a necessary one that will ultimately result in bringing a better product to market."

Looks like CeBIT won't be so interesting at all.

so logically

AMD doesn't have a *competitive configuration* right now in r600

--sure *sounds* like 'engineering' issues

i'd say that sure looks like *dire straits* ...

their stock is dropping and it looks like they need 'money for nothing'
[forget the 'chicks', now]
 

JBT

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
12,094
1
81
eh not that big a deal to me. I wasn't planning on getting anything soon. This makes it a bit easier not to start burning all that cash in my pocket. I don't see this as "killing AMD" at all really. They do this every GPU release and they are still here... and when they release a card that performs better people are still going to buy it and if not then they will just need to compete on price.
 

DeathReborn

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2005
2,770
775
136
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: SickBeast
Originally posted by: apoppin
Hector R was talking about the postponed r600 ... AMD doesn't have a competitive configuration *now* ... that's *why* it is being held back instead of being released as scheduled

right now - for what ever *issue* - 8800 would kick it's butt ... AMD cannot afford that

probably *same thing* that happened with x1800 ...
So then what are they going to do? Re-engineer it? It's already been re-engineered like SIX TIMES! :Q

Perhaps they should just call it a day and release a dual-core X1950XTX on 80nm.

no no no

they have a *backup plan* if r600 completely melts down ... it is the r660 that is scheduled for Fall that would be their hope

what happened with x1800 was a bug in the silicon ... something that took MONTHS to hunt down ... it kept x1800 from reaching its targeted clockspeed and further messed up their yields. An they might have *never* found that bug ... in which case, x1900 would be released completely skipping x1800

*something* - they won't tell anyone about now - is keeping r600 from being "competitive" ... and OBVIOUSLY they found this issue at the last minute or they would NOT have scheduled the launch for CeBit ... or perhaps they thought they had it *worked out* but found problems.

at least this is what i gather
It must be serious.

I thought the chip already "taped out". Does this mean that the tape-out was unsuccessful? How could they possibly get snagged this late in the process? As for performance, can they accurately simlate it prior to the chip taping out?

Also, what about those "benchmarks" showing the R600 ~20% faster than the 8800GTX?

Something is amiss here. ATI is hiding something *big*. I have a feeling the shareholders won't like the wool being pulled over their eyes yet again. Not good news.

Has this ever happened before? I've never before seen a tech company admit defeat and "chicken out" like this. Very strange.

Those "benchmarks" if true were based on the silicon that was not able to run higher than 4xAA (an early bug they found and apparently fixed, hopefully).

As far as I can recall R600 has taped out at least twice, first time with the AA bug & 2nd time with the fix.

I do think they are planning on releasing R600, R610 & R630 in one go, possibly as part of a Quad FX (Barcelona) Platform. If there was a glitch it was most likely yields or lack of high clocked parts to meet the "hard launch" they need to have.

Lets not forget they are having integrated HDMI support which could possibly be part of the delay, albeit unlikely.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: JBT
eh not that big a deal to me. I wasn't planning on getting anything soon. This makes it a bit easier not to start burning all that cash in my pocket. I don't see this as "killing AMD" at all really. They do this every GPU release and they are still here... and when they release a card that performs better people are still going to buy it and if not then they will just need to compete on price.

tell that to their investors ...AMD's stock IS taking a *beating* and looks to drop even further
...$14
:Q

they don't care about *promises* or "what went wrong"

and it doesn't affect me personally ... other than *sadness*

my new build is scheduled for next year

 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: dreddfunk
appopin - simply put, maybe, maybe not. The quote you snipped out ran across two sentences and severely distorts the meaning, but such are the ways we try to divine what statements like these really mean, so no harm, no foul.

It's entirely possible that ATI/AMD aren't competitive right now. It's also entirely possible that the only thing they can bring out right now is a reasonably competitive, high-end card.

Yet surely they know precisely what nVidia has waiting: great mid-range GPU's to spoil their release (look, we've made DX10 affordable) and a refresh of the high-end parts just as DX10 games arrive to retake the performance crown (look, we can run Crysis faster).

If you've got a good idea of what your competitor plans, I don't see why you would walk into the trap. If you read the latter part of Ruiz' statement, he suggests another idea:

"To better align our strategy with current market opportunities, we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market with an extremely attractive combination of performance, features and pricing, targeting a broader market segment in Q2. With the revised strategy, AMD will be better able to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10, being driven in part by the growing popularity of Windows Vista?."

Ruiz's statement clearly says that they're looking to "address a broader market segment in Q2." If I were placing bets, I'd bet on an introduction of both high-end and mid-range parts in Q2 instead of just high-end parts now.

Wreckage says that a lot of people are simply going to move to the 8800 because of the delay, and that may be the case. It's also clearly the case, however, that a lot of people are waiting on R600, just in case it does ofter a serious leap in performance.

My best guess is that ATI/AMD know R600 isn't a serious leap and that bringing it out now will give nVidia (and the rest of us) a really good idea of how their midrange parts are going to perform. At that point, with the immediate release of the 8600 and the pretty sure knowledge that the ATI/AMD parts aren't going to blow it away, nVidia has got the initial DX10 market almost sewn-up.

They've got the early adopters of the 8800. Check. They've got the opportunity to retake the performance crown before any DX10 games debut. Check. They've got the bargain hunters with the cut-down 8800's. Check. And they've got the budget gamers with the mid-range 8600. Check.

No way in heck would I walk into this trap. It may tick people off to keep them waiting, but you keep them wondering too.

Let me reiterate I don't think this is likely but, given ATI/AMD's position right now, if they just plow ahead with a high-end release and no budget cards that doesn't blow the 8800 away, they're in for a rough ride over the next few months.



This guy hit it on the head.

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Originally posted by: dreddfunk
appopin - simply put, maybe, maybe not. The quote you snipped out ran across two sentences and severely distorts the meaning, but such are the ways we try to divine what statements like these really mean, so no harm, no foul.

It's entirely possible that ATI/AMD aren't competitive right now. [-1-] It's also entirely possible that the only thing they can bring out right now is a reasonably competitive, high-end card.

Yet surely they know precisely what nVidia has waiting: great mid-range GPU's to spoil their release (look, we've made DX10 affordable) and a refresh of the high-end parts just as DX10 games arrive to retake the performance crown (look, we can run Crysis faster).

[-2]-If you've got a good idea of what your competitor plans, I don't see why you would walk into the trap. If you read the latter part of Ruiz' statement, he suggests another idea:

"To better align our strategy with current market opportunities, we've changed the launch plan for R600. We are going to deliver a competitive configuration to market with an extremely attractive combination of performance, features and pricing, [-3-]targeting a broader market segment in Q2. With the revised strategy, AMD will be better able to capitalize on the broad appeal of 3D graphics and DirectX 10, being driven in part by the growing popularity of Windows Vista?."

Ruiz's statement clearly says that [-4-] they're looking to "address a broader market segment in Q2." If I were placing bets, I'd bet on an introduction of both high-end and mid-range parts in Q2 instead of just high-end parts now.

Wreckage says that a lot of people are simply going to move to the 8800 because of the delay, and that may be the case. It's also clearly the case, however, that a lot of people are waiting on R600, just in case it does ofter a serious leap in performance.

My best guess is that ATI/AMD know R600 isn't a serious leap and that bringing it out now will give nVidia (and the rest of us) a really good idea of how their midrange parts are going to perform. At that point, with the immediate release of the 8600 and the pretty sure knowledge that the ATI/AMD parts aren't going to blow it away, nVidia has got the initial DX10 market almost sewn-up.

They've got the early adopters of the 8800. Check. They've got the opportunity to retake the performance crown before any DX10 games debut. Check. They've got the bargain hunters with the cut-down 8800's. Check. And they've got the budget gamers with the mid-range 8600. Check.

No way in heck would I walk into this trap. It may tick people off to keep them waiting, but you keep them wondering too.

Let me reiterate I don't think this is likely but, [-5-]given ATI/AMD's position right now, if they just plow ahead with a high-end release and no budget cards that doesn't blow the 8800 away, they're in for a rough ride over the next few months.



This guy hit it on the head.

what did i say that is really *different*? ... a *faliure* is a *failure*


[-1-] agreed ... "reasonably competitive" isn't gonna cut it

[-2]- yeah ... they don't have a competitor ready

[-3-&-4-] what is he gonna say?, "we f*dup" ...
they *revised* their strategy because they recognize their current strategy is a failure
obviously - since r600 is delayed - *ANYway* - they might as well bring out the rest of their line
and Ruiz statements mean when translated: "we're gonna do better in Q2 because we could not have done worse in Q1 and failed to keep our promise"

[-5-] they are in for a *rough ride* anyway ... and i don't think they have *anything* to release that IS *competitive* or it would make good business sense to do it ... as SCHEDULED

if they "plow ahead" with a r600 release - as planned - they will have their ass handed to them ... again

--damn sloppy of AMD and crap planning and execution of their *strategy*

failure to launch ... as promised and as scheduled
:thumbsdown:
 

imported_Bee

Member
Jan 7, 2007
133
0
0
Originally posted by: JBT
eh not that big a deal to me. I wasn't planning on getting anything soon. This makes it a bit easier not to start burning all that cash in my pocket. I don't see this as "killing AMD" at all really. They do this every GPU release and they are still here... and when they release a card that performs better people are still going to buy it and if not then they will just need to compete on price.
AMD is fighting a war on two fronts with Nvidia AND Intel being the enemy. And both of them are pretty tough.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |